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Word Count, Is It Important?
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message 51:
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Riley
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Jun 13, 2015 01:07PM
arbitrary goals are arbitrary...but when I do said a word count, I typically shoot for about a thousand a day.I figure if I can write 1000 words today for year thats 365000 words, enough to fill any epic fantasy. But I also count my blogging in my word count.
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Wow. This dead thread has been resurrected for no apparent reason.Answer to original question: no.
Answer to why some might see word count as important: practice makes perfect.
But it's not the end-all, be-all, especially for fiction, I must emphasize.
I truly don't mean offense and I'm not pointing fingers, but I do feel the need to say that anyone beating this dead horse might be still an amateurs. Before everyone burns me at the stake (!!!), in a way, we're all amateurs, and that's okay. Practice makes perfect and never give up your dreams.
Lily wrote: "I do feel the need to say that anyone beating this dead horse might be still an amateurs."What exactly are you referring to? Using wordcount to determine the size of a writing project?
How many are new to the forum though? It would be a new discussion to them.
It would be a new discussion. Feel free to start that topic.
Yep, haven't been on in a while. I resurrected the dead thread. :) If they shouldn't be resurrected, maybe they should be deleted after a certain point in time.
Anne wrote: "Yep, haven't been on in a while. I resurrected the dead thread. :) If they shouldn't be resurrected, maybe they should be deleted after a certain point in time."Sigh' easier said than done, with the GR format these things can only be done one at a time, and only after they become a problem, or not. I had honestly forgetten this thread even existed.
So, all we can do is ask members to please consider if a) the topic is resolved that that's why there hasn't been new comments in a while, b) check the dates and make sure you're not resurrecting an old thread that' been resolved when there are plenty of new threads happening right now, and c) shoot. I had a third point, but it's late, kinda tired, and I forgot my third point.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is mods can't do everything. We're not gods, we don't own GR or the format, we're doing the best we can when what we have. It would be nice for members to do the same, thanks.
Mod
Seeing as this was my thread I never intended to have a question answered to end it as its open for people to discuss their thoughts on word counts.
Carry on!
Lily wrote: "So, all we can do is ask members to please consider if a) the topic is resolved that that's why there hasn't been new comments in a while, b) check the dates and make sure you're not resurrecting an old thread that' been resolved when there are plenty of new threads happening right now, and c) shoot. I had a third point, but it's late, kinda tired, and I forgot my third point."Is it not better to continue on an old thread than starting a new thread on an old topic? Before you know it you have ten threads on Word Count, another seven on writing software, et cetera.
Besides, the matter was not 'resolved', and I don't think it will be resolved in the near future. Because of its immutability, wordcount will always factor in text, whether it's a blog post or a novel. And not just to measure progress, but also to conform to rules in contests or with submissions to trade publishers.
B. wrote: "I think you're better off knowing how the rest of the industry works on this score, even if you have the luxury of being Indie. I think word count is important, both from a craft and a production point of view."I agree. Besides, Amazon will charge a fee for delivering e-books above a certain size, and while that size is in megabytes, the size is directly related to the word count of the document.
In the first post, Justin mentions the risks of obsessing over arbitrary word counts as daily challenge, and he's absolutely right.
The main thing is to keep to the middle ground.
Word count has its uses, but obsessing about it is as detrimental to the writing itself as obsessing over the perfect opening sentence before you finish the work. Some people obsess so much over the opening of a story/novel that they block their own writing, while most authors know that you can always tack on a beginning when you're finished with the draft. Arbitrary word count goals have the same tendency to diminish rather than improving productivity.
B. wrote: "Writing at extreme brevity can be really useful: You realise which words are more precious, which work harder, and how lenient and lax you may otherwise be with structure and narrative. It's not something I'd want to do all the time in fiction but in the interests of developing how I write, I think it has some merit."I also dabbled in composing haiku and 'two-sentence stories' to hone my craft. Haiku is a minimalist challenge, where the rigid rules really exercise your mind in editing.
I do that as well, Martyn, going to poetry, haiku, short-shorts and flash. It really helps my focus and getting to the meat of a story.
I'm almost scared to resurrect this topic, but I've been away, so here's my two cents. I think word count is important if you want to write a full length novel i.e. 90k to 120k or a short story, but I dont obsess about it. I try to write 1000 or more words per day. Blogs I've read written by agents etc say they look at word count, for instance they wont look at a fantasy novel with under 90k words, so I aim for around 100k.
Yolanda wrote: "I'm almost scared to resurrect this topic, but..."Why are you scared? And it's not the resurrection unless this thread was buried on page ten.
Yolanda wrote: if you want to write a full length novel "The problem with that is that your muse may have different notions. . . .
Sometimes a story just has to be written to its natural length.
Mod
Martyn V. (aka Baron Sang-Froid) wrote: "B. wrote: "Writing at extreme brevity can be really useful: You realise which words are more precious, which work harder, and how lenient and lax you may otherwise be with structure and narrative. ..."Playing with wordcount is definitely a good way to hone your editing skills, so I think its important to an extent. And as many people noted before, it's something to keep in mind when submitting your work to publishers, contests, reviewers, etc.
I'm overly-wordy by nature, so things like flash fiction and other minimalist challenges that force me to keep an eye on wordcount are definitely helpful in the continued improvement of my general writing skills.
But when I'm just writing for the sake of writing and not on a specific word-count prompt, I don't really care. I use as many words as it takes to tell the story, which is more important.
Mod
If you find a thread interesting or relevant, go ahead - we get new members all the time and it's great when people are chatting :)
Katheryn wrote: "I'm overly-wordy by nature, so things like flash fiction and other minimalist challenges that force me to keep an eye on wordcount are definitely helpful in the continued improvement of my general writing skills."It's good that you recognise in yourself a tendency towards wordiness - it irks me when I read novels where the prose in unnecessarily verbose. I've come across quite a few authors who really need an editor that culls their prosaic diarrhea with a big red marker.
I myself use a list that helps me be more succinct, with crutch words like 'very', 'nice', 'sort of', 'kind of', et cetera. Really works well to remove all those words from your manuscript and see the word count dwindle while your prose gets stronger.
Mod
So in this sense, word count when formatted is important because it determines how many pages your book will be. Also it's good to know as I've recently seen a post where a book over 40,000 words is considered a novel and mine is around 42,000.
I believe that word count is very important and I believe that at writers' conferences, the word counts that are given are frankly crazy. I would recommend picking up W. Terry Whalin's book called How to Jumpstart Your Writing Career. Cute Blue cover with a gold fish jumping between bowls. A very great fast read, with real information on Word counts from a guy who has been in the publishing business for over 30 years and worked for big names. Word count can make it or blow it before an agent even opens your manuscript.
Mod
Very interesting Solange, thank you for sharing. I'll definitely check out that book.
From a practical stand point, if you are a newbie author and have written the next "Dune" or something close to that length, what publisher is going to take the risk to print it and produce it? Last year, there was one book which was GYNORMOUS that everyone loved (not me), but that was and is unusual, especially in the days of publishing as they exist today.
I rarely read books that are door stoppers. When I buy a book I always look at the number of pages. So word count in that sense is important to me. I aim for 100k words but I'm not obsessive about it.
Books are expensive, at least comparative to my income, lol. So, after considering whether the story and writing appeal to me, if I'm choosing between buying two or more different books, I'm almost always going to take the one that's going to keep me busy longest.
I'm glad this topic was revived (or whatever else word you'd like to use). I just read through it all, saw preferences, opinions, standards of different formats.
I learned a lot.
I believe word counting is good for all the reasons stated, especially for hard copies and submitting work to publications.
I get a bi-monthly magazine that uses word counts to establish the type of short story each submission is. Many readers pick stories by their length: have a short time to read? Pick the shortest in the mag. Have more time? Go for the longest. And instead of having to do math to figure out which are the shortest or longest (gasp! Math!!), you can see that all the novellas are listed together, the novelettes have their own groupings, poetry is easy to find... All from the Contents page.
There are many uses of knowing the word and page counts, besides tracking your daily progress.
And it doesn't stop any author from writing organically. Who, in their right mind, would stop at 5,000 words exactly? Especially if it was in the middle of a sentence, or at a very important part of the book?
Just my two cents. NB: I'm not yet an author, not officially. But I'm working on a few pieces, when time allows. I'll call myself a writer when I can actually put aside time every day (or some regular time method) to only write.
Solange wrote: "From a practical stand point, if you are a newbie author and have written the next "Dune" or something close to that length..."Dune is a series. The first book isn't that huge. It was the later books that gained in volume per volume. :)
