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Nada
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Feb 12 Nada by Carmen Laforet
Thanks for setting up a thread Carol, looks as if Sophie and Anita may join in too which would be brilliant. I will do some rooting around for useful background links. I checked and it's also available to borrow online from https://archive.org For anyone unfamiliar, a free, properly regulated i.e. safe to use, library site, all users have to do is set up an account with an email address and password. They have digital copies in various languages including two of the translated edition.
Hello, I may join in as it is available in Spanish on OpenLibrary.
Isabelle wrote: "Hello, I may join in as it is available in Spanish on OpenLibrary."Most excellent.
So pleased to find this! I have wanted to read this for years and purchased a copy yesterday. It will take a couple of weeks to arrive; I’d love to join in mid February.
Jen wrote: "So pleased to find this! I have wanted to read this for years and purchased a copy yesterday. It will take a couple of weeks to arrive; I’d love to join in mid February."Let us know when your copy arrives, Jen. So glad you’re joining.
Hi all, I just got my copy of Nada today. Looking forward to our discussion!
I got my copy today.
Great news, Sophie. @jen, I think we’re waiting on your copy to arrive? Does starting this weekend work for everyone? Saturday the 10th or Sunday the 11th? What works best with your current reading?
I managed to get a copy from the library and probably could start on the weekend.
I'll try, working on redoing my floors at the moment, so depends on my energy levels after a few hours of sanding.
Alwynne wrote: "I'll try, working on redoing my floors at the moment, so depends on my energy levels after a few hours of sanding."oh, lord, I stand in admiration of you. Best of luck with that project, courageous and diligent, friend : )
Is later next week better for you? What's your timeline?
Carol wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "I'll try, working on redoing my floors at the moment, so depends on my energy levels after a few hours of sanding."oh, lord, I stand in admiration of you. Best of luck with that p..."
I think you should all go ahead and I'll catch up, can fit it in during the week and I'm quite a fast reader!
Okay. Unless someone has a strong objection, let's start Sunday, 12 Feb, just to have a pin in the calendar. Now I get to recede into democratic buddy read-ness.
On Carmen Laforet: http://www.spainisculture.com/en/arti... The Guardian's obit published in 2004, which includes this excerpt about Nada:
"...With its laconic, Sartrian title, the book caused a sensation with its portrayal of a miserable, sordid Barcelona immediately after the civil war. It has never been out of print, and, even today, sells several thousand copies a year."
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2004...
Anyone proficient in Spanish might want to check out Laforet's website: https://carmenlaforet.com/
Just started reading it in Spanish. Descriptions are quite intense, what Garcia-Marquez who wrote the foreword describes as « pinceladas descriptivas », that could translate as descriptive strokes of brush. Quite nice.
Isabelle wrote: "Just started reading it in Spanish. Descriptions are quite intense, what Garcia-Marquez who wrote the foreword describes as « pinceladas descriptivas », that could translate as descriptive strokes ..."I didn't realize we had a Garcia-Marquez forward to anticipate, too. What a treat.
Not from every edition, I suppose, but the one I am reading from, availabel on OpenLibrary, had it if you are interested.
The library copy I have has an intro by Mario Vargas Llosa and is a “new translation” by Edith Grossman. Do some of us have different translators?
Susan wrote: "The library copy I have has an intro by Mario Vargas Llosa and is a “new translation” by Edith Grossman. Do some of us have different translators?"It’s possible. Grossman’s translation was copyrighted in 2007, and the edition with Llosa’s introduction is the Modern Library edition.
Anyone have another English translation?
I appreciated the translator’s note with its cliff notes essential historical context.
I have the one with the Mario Vargas Llosa intro as well. I am pretty far along and am enthralled.
I have just started and I have the 2007 Grossman translation. Not sure if it has the translator’s note or not. As a side note, I trained as a Spanish translator and interpreter and once saw Edith Grossman speak. It was great and she’s quite prolific.
Kate wrote: "I have just started and I have the 2007 Grossman translation. Not sure if it has the translator’s note or not. As a side note, I trained as a Spanish translator and interpreter and once saw Edith G..."This is so cool, Kate - first that you trained as a translator, and then having heard grossman as a distant second.
The claustrophobia of the apartment in the first few dozen pages is oppressive. I haven’t figured Andrea out at all yet.
Mine is the Grossman translation too. And yes the apartment is quite creepy. Andrea seems like an interesting character, I'm wondering how closely she's based on the author who also left Gran Canaria to study at roughly the same age - I know it's billed as 'loosely based' but that's so vague!Franco had reversed laws about women's rights and so married women were essentially under the control of their husbands, and single women were encouraged through various cultural/political organisations to focus on futures as wives and mothers, and to get things like a driving licence had to pass courses on needlework, home-making etc. So think Andrea's potentially quite a subversive character for the time.
The claustrophobic apartment also made me think of Lorca's The House of Bernarda Alba and Other Plays not sure if that's deliberate or not.
Nice to see Nada included on a list of Spanish Civil War novels in today's Guardian. Also highlights one I read a while ago Savage Coast which is really brilliantly written,https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...
Sarah Watling's just brought out a non-fiction book about writers responding to the Civil War including Virginia Woolf and Sylvia Townsend-Warner which I like the look of, Tomorrow Perhaps the Future: Writers, Outsiders, and the Spanish Civil War
Alwynne wrote: "Mine is the Grossman translation too. And yes the apartment is quite creepy. Andrea seems like an interesting character, I'm wondering how closely she's based on the author who also left Gran Canar..."Very interesting. The lecture she gets from the aunt about how grateful she should be that they’re paying for her education, board etc. suggests that they’re being a little rebellious, too, in supporting her education — notwithstanding the unpleasant pressure explicit in the rant.
Help! I’m on page 80 and I do not understand Roman or Aunt Angustias, so basically I am lost as to what is going on. I threw up my hands and typed this comment when Aunt Angustias told Andrea that if she’d gotten ahold of her when she was younger she’d have beaten her to death. Why? Thus far, Andrea hasn’t rebelled in any meaningful way (she has just immediately before this passage determined that she’d had enough of compliance and intended to rebel, but there’s been no opportunity to act on that decision); and then Roman. What is his deal? Is he driven by anger at Juan for his decision to switch sides back in the day? Or is there something else motivating him? I love her writing, and yet find myself reading on but feeling as though I am not comprehending the players and their moves properly.
What does everyone else think?
Carol, I love your comment. I was thinking it was just me! I feel like I don’t understand what’s going on with this family and keep telling myself that the war made everyone “crazy” but I’m mostly just confused.
I just started tonight but was blown away by the level of escalation at the end of chapter 2 between Román and Gloria, and then Román and Juan, and then Juan and Gloria. It was crazy. What even happened.
Anita wrote: "I just started tonight but was blown away by the level of escalation at the end of chapter 2 between Román and Gloria, and then Román and Juan, and then Juan and Gloria. It was crazy. What even hap..."It is intense, indeed. It was almost too awkward to imagine being in the room as an onlooker. Then there’s Gloria serving as Juan’s nude model, and Andrea walking in. I admire Andrea’s poise.
Anita wrote: "I just started tonight but was blown away by the level of escalation at the end of chapter 2 between Román and Gloria, and then Román and Juan, and then Juan and Gloria. It was crazy. What even hap..."Juan's violence toward Gloria throughout is astonishing.
After finishing and thinking about some of the parts that I did not comprehend, I re-read the introduction by Mario Vagas Llosa. In it he said "what is unspoken is more important than what is said.." The madness and darkness of the family seemed a reflection of the dark and filthy house they inhabited.
Usually, I can create a mental image of a character when I am reading. I just could not do that with Antonia, the housekeeper. Throughout she is referred to as extremely ugly and dirty but unless I missed something, I could not conjure up what she would have looked like, What made her so ugly.
Gloria was also a puzzle for me. Everyone including grandmother had such hatred for her. I kept questioning the things she was telling Andrea.
Sophie wrote: "After finishing and thinking about some of the parts that I did not comprehend, I re-read the introduction by Mario Vagas Llosa. In it he said "what is unspoken is more important than what is said...."I have no opinions about the housekeeper yet, but as for Gloria, I have the sense that she was a sort of mistress of Juan's and that he had another relationship with someone who the family viewed as better. I also got the sense that something may have happened between her and Román, and this is why he treats her so badly in an obvious way. As if to hide the fact that he may actually have or had romantic feelings for her?
I was also shocked by Andrea's lack of concern over the number of people who felt it was just fine to rummage through her things and keep stock of her belongings? The whole handkerchief situation revealed that at least 3 people go through and inventory her items.
Sophie wrote: "After finishing and thinking about some of the parts that I did not comprehend, I re-read the introduction by Mario Vagas Llosa. In it he said "what is unspoken is more important than what is said...."I'm assuming their home is a stand-in for Spain under Franco and post the Civil War, and that the twisted power dynamics also reflect the state of the country at large. It reminded me of the families and settings in Guillermo del Toro's Civil War films but without the pronounced horror/fantasy elements.
Anita wrote: I was also shocked by Andrea's lack of concern over the number of people who felt it was just fine to rummage through her things and keep stock of her belongings? The whole handkerchief situation revealed that at least 3 people go through and inventory her items
I was puzzled by that event too but when she stepped forward to defend Gloria I took it to mean that she felt she had no say because they were letting her stay in their house.
Andrea goes through some deep depression so she did not have the strength to stand up for herself. So speaking up for Gloria was a huge step toward finding her voice with these horrible people.
Alwynne wrote: I'm assuming their home is a stand-in for Spain under Franco and post the Civil War, and that the twisted power dynamics also reflect the state of the country at large.That is a perfect conclusion Alwynne.
I do not get Ena and why any of Andrea, Jaime or Ena’s mother (page 198 and surrounding) find her fascinating, interesting, wonderful. Laforet has multiple characters tell us of Ena’s marvelousness but I don’t recall anything I’ve read that supports the idea that she’s this amazing target. I put her quickly in the, there’s no accounting for taste in friends or lovers at 18-21, especially, and “pretty, self-centered girl like many, but maybe there’s something deeper there that might be revealed later” buckets. Nothing I’ve read yet has moved the pendulum. On a secondary note, I’m somewhat bemused by Ena's mom’s lengthy disclosure to Andrea in Chapter 19 — from start to finish — it just all seems so contrived. Andrea says, “When Ena’s mother finished speaking, my thoughts harmonized entirely with hers.” Wait. What? What thoughts? How she felt when Ena was born and she watched her grow up? (view spoiler)? Ugh, by the way.
What am I missing?
Also, when has a medium distance girlfriend EVER talked a woman out of a known -sketchy fling? I felt like this entire scene and Ena’s mother’s ask is eye-rollingly ridiculous and only here as a means for Laforet to give us Ena’s mom’s background. But she hasn’t been a focal point in the novel thus far. We already think what we think about Ramon; this information doesn’t flesh him out as a character. It’s more of the same, only over a longer timeframe.
I'm just up to chapter 18 now, so not quite there Carol. I did get my answer about whether Román and Gloria had a relationship though. I agree Ena is simply adored because she is beautiful, rich, kind... all the things a woman should be? There was the slight montage where some time passes with Andrea spending much of her time at Ena's home studying and eating. Spending her monthly allowance on flowers for Ena's mom and eating out until she was broke again. She always manages to find a way to blow her food budget and starve. I'm still stunned when Juan goes into a rage and eventually abuses Gloria, and the maid is just randomly lurking... tbh I'm not loving this book. It seems a depressing, surreal read on the border of a fever dream at times, and I think the historical context is a crucial key to appreciating it.
Anita wrote: "I'm just up to chapter 18 now, so not quite there Carol. I did get my answer about whether Román and Gloria had a relationship though. I agree Ena is simply adored because she is beautiful, rich, k..."Juan goes into rage after rage after rage. There must be 7? separate incidents where he harms her physically, and her response is always acceptance and, but I'm beautiful, right? I totally get that many women don't have the option to leave, but Gloria doesn't seem to even consider leaving or to view any incident as a bridge too far.
Two thoughts that came to me overnight:
So very many artists or wanna-be artists in this novel. Painters, authors, musicians. Is the point to show us the impact of the War and its aftermath on the creative community, specifically?
Notwithstanding Andrea's money-management choices, certain characters - the grandmother, Juan, the baby - are experiencing severe hunger over much of the novel. The grandmother is giving portions of her food to Andrea and her grandchild. Once Ramon leaves, this family doesn't even have his (suggested to be ill-gotten) resources to support them. And then Andrea moves out of Barcelona and waves goodbye, without a pang of worry about family left behind. Is Laforet suggesting that the gap between the haves and have-nots is most severe in Barcelona? Or is it the corruption and maintaining appearances, with a rotting economic system as the foundation, that is most intense in Barcelona? or is the indigence and desparation the same across Spain, and our story simply occurs in Barcelona?
I have to apologize, this book just isn’t grabbing me right now. I may put it down and pick it up again later. I am happy to see the discussion it is provoking, but I am so far behind.
Kate wrote: "I have to apologize, this book just isn’t grabbing me right now. I may put it down and pick it up again later. I am happy to see the discussion it is provoking, but I am so far behind."totally understood, Kate. I'm sorry it didn't work it's magic for you, but hope you've got alternatives lined up that work better right now.
Thanks for understanding, Carol! I will definitely join in on another read in the future :)
Kate wrote: "Thanks for understanding, Carol! I will definitely join in on another read in the future :)"absolutely. I abandon freely, sometimes a group read where I nominated the book, although I give them maybe another 30 pages I wouldn't otherwise : )
Carol wrote: "Anita wrote: "I'm just up to chapter 18 now, so not quite there Carol. I did get my answer about whether Román and Gloria had a relationship though. I agree Ena is simply adored because she is beau..."Brilliant insights, I have to agree with your perception and Alwynne's here on the political allegory this story must be. Being an ignorant outsider has its downsides but this is truly a driving point of reading translated books for me, and this is probably the only genre I enjoy historical fiction because it helps me take baby steps into the pool of international affairs and conflicts.
Kate, I'm right there with you but this discussion is the bright side of reading this book for me. Absolutely don't feel any guilt for a dnf
I liked this book. It reminded me of my younger days watching old black and white subtitled films that made me pay acute attention to the actors' expressions more than the dialogue. I came away knowing that I may not have understood everything but found myself considering what I watched long after. Being only slightly familiar with Spanish history the introduction and author's note were very helpful to set the scenes.
Andrea comes from a village where she lived with an aunt and was educated by nuns. She was ready to live an independent life but her experience was not what she expected. It seemed like she was walking around shell-shocked by what he encountered in the relative's home.
She was drawn into a friendship with Ina because she was so lonely and Ina's family life was like a dream. Even though the bourgeois classes were taken down, there is still a distinction
between haves and have-nots. Fellow students have the luxury of following artistic pursuits while she is starving and has to return to the horrid household of her relatives. This is especially illustrated when she attends the party with her friend Pons and finds herself rejected because she looks so shabby.
Ina chose Andrea because she had ulterior motives. She is privileged and seems unaware of Andrea’s dire situation. Or if she is aware she chooses to ignore it. She seemed a childish character.
The blurb on the book cover describes the book as having subtle humor. It does not credit who wrote that but I did not see humor unless it is a reference to the final scene when Juan tells Andrea “Well, niece, I hope things go well for you. In any case, you’ll see how living in a home of strangers isn’t the same as being with our family, but it’s a good idea for you to have your eyes opened. For you to learn what life is like…” That’s about the only scene that made me chuckle.
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Books mentioned in this topic
Nada (other topics)Savage Coast (other topics)
Tomorrow Perhaps the Future: Writers, Outsiders, and the Spanish Civil War (other topics)
The House of Bernarda Alba and Other Plays (other topics)
Nada (other topics)
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A little background on Nada. First published in Spanish in 1945, passing the Francoist state censors’ review. Takes place in post- Spanish Civil War Barcelona.