Fringe Fiction Unlimited discussion
Group Questions?
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The Line Between A Short Story and a Novella
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Moving to Group Questions :)Now, to answer your quetions. I've written short stories as well as novels. There's actually a rather big difference, and not just word count.
But, to get the technical out of the way, very general rule of thumb:
10k or less - Short story
10k - 20k - Novelette
40 - 50k - Novella
75k or above - Novel
Again, very general, none of this is written in stone, and it depends so much on the story.
Short stories tend to more like a moment in time whereas novels tend to be an overall story arc. In my opinion, this is what I've found to be the case.
I welcome the opinions of other short story authors :)
Thanks, Lily.Mine still qualifies as a short story, then, which is how I'd labeled it. It just seemed long to me!
Once you're up between a novella & novel, looks like it depends on genre, too. An MG or YA novel could probably be 50K, maybe some chick lit too. But for literary, fantasy, historical etc they tend to be more in-depth.
You're absolutely right. That gray area between 50k and 75k has more to do with targeted audience, YA, Adult, genre, etc, etc.For short stories, sky's the limit really. You're allowed a lot of freedom.
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In that regard, the 60 to 75k was also skipped. ;)
Like said, very general rule of thumg. The idea is if, say, you have 35k words, might as well bump it to 40k and call it a novells. It's more so related to page count, as in printed on paper. Of course, with indie ebooks, word count has been pretty much thrown out the window.Anyway, I feel Lena is safe to call it a short story if it's under 10k.
G.G. wrote: "In that regard, the 60 to 75k was also skipped. ;)"That's a YA novel :)
Lily wrote: "Like said, very general rule of thumg. The idea is if, say, you have 35k words, might as well bump it to 40k and call it a novells. It's more so related to page count, as in printed on paper. Of co..."I stopped using page count b/c of ebooks. And no one else seems to use them anymore, bc everyone uses a different program, font, etc.
My short story is 30 pgs, double spaced, TNR font. I have no idea what that translates to in a paperback, because it's too short to print as a book and I don't want it printed with any of my full novels.
But I'm curious to see if any other short story writers have had this question before.
Keep in mind, word is only one small part of it. Or page count. Which is not meaningless anyway lolOverall structure of a short story, I find works best when it doesn't have a firm and complete ending. Just a moment in time.
I would also like to hear from other short story authors.
I generally go by the Hugo/Nebula rules, which gives me an authority to cite:Novel over 40,000 words
Novella 17,500 to 40,000 words
Novelette 7,500 to 17,500 words
Short story under 7,500 words
Then that's SF and fantasy.
That's pretty much how I count things too, Mary.Though if I was releasing a novelette, I'd probably call it either a short novella or a long short story, to avoid having to explain the word 'novelette' to just about every single reader.
And... no one's interested in answering Lena's question about short stories?
Actually that gives me a good idea...basically, it's up to the author what to call it. Mine would be a novelette according to Mary, a short story according to Lily. But as Mary said, no one uses the word 'novelette' anymore, so it's a toss up. I'm going with short story.
What would we do without knowledgeable Lily :0)
Tabitha wrote: "What would we do without knowledgeable Lily :0)"I was kinda hoping someone would come along and play devil's advocate about how to define a short story lol
I'll bite.My short stories are definitely stronger when they have a clearly defined beginning, middle, and end. Even if it's just a drabble, which I tend to structure as a joke: set-up, development, punchline.
For me, what defines a short story, as opposed to an extract from a novel, is a tighter focus. No sub-plots, a limited cast of characters, nothing extraneous to the story. But that story can be told over multiple scenes and over many years if that's what the author needs to do.
If I want to describe a moment in time, I opt for poetry. For me, short stories need a complete structure. Even if an ending is open-ended, ambiguous or just plain frustrating, it still needs to be an ending.
Andrew, I really like your phrase "tighter focus." It might be a better descripition than "a moment in time."
Also, just to clarity, I meant short stories work better, in my experience, if it doesn't have the long dramatic ending that's more typical of a novel.But then, just to really confuse everyone (lol), if you can structure 5000 words in a novel format, readers will call it a small novel no matter what.
Hmm...sort of like the difference between an autobiography and a memoir?
I second Andrew on the focus issue. If I were to picture short stories and novels/novellas/novelettes/novelwhatevers, I'd draw the former as a straight branch with a few twigs attached, and the latter as a tree trunk with several branches. And twigs. And leaves. And a bird's nest on the top. I guess.
That's a nice analogy. I'm about halfway through writing a trilogy of linked novellas, and I'm enjoying the freedom to ramble and riff a bit as the mood takes me. Once I feel I've done the novellas justice, I'm going to have a go at a proper novel. It's interesting trying to keep a short story discipline and mentality when writing longer stuff.
Oh, yes. I would say that short stories are like embroidery floss and novels are a rope -- the novel is not just longer but also thicker.The stickier a story idea is -- the more things it pulls in with it -- the longer the resulting work will be.
I meant, more about structure and less about word count :) I only threw in the numbers to get the nit-picky stuff out of the way.
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I've never written short fiction before, but I have a short companion piece that goes along with a novel. I'm not sure what to call it.
Question: Is there a generally acknowledged word count for a novella? At what point does your short story become a novella?
The short stories I've read vary a lot--anywhere from 2 pgs to maybe 30 pgs. The novellas have been Stephen King mostly, 4 to a book, around 100pgs each. No idea about WC since they were trade published books.
Can someone who writes shorts clue me in?
Thanks!