The Old Curiosity Club discussion
This topic is about
Cousin Henry
Cousin Henry
>
Reading Schedule and Preliminary Remarks
Just downloaded Cousin Henry.
Mod
Mod
Mod
Hmmm....my library system doesn't seem to even have a single copy of this and I don't have an e-reader. I'll have to scout out the used bookstore this weekend and see if I can find a copy. Otherwise I'll have to wait until the Wuthering Heights read.
Mod
Hi Linda
Good to see posting again.
Try the website Gutenburg. That’s where I found my reading copy.
Linda wrote: "I don't have an e-reader. I'll have to scout out the used bookstore this weekend and see if I can find a copy..."Hi Linda. You don't need an e-reader specifically. I have the free Kindle app on my phone which I love (you can change the text size if you're concerned about that). All the books read here will likely be public domain so available free from Gutenberg/Amazon. If you decide to try it, you have time to download it and learn how it works before the read.
Thank you, Peter and Jane. I did download the book to my phone from Gutenberg so I will try it. I have read one book on my phone before. The problem is I have a very small phone, so reading an entire book on it feels weird so I haven’t done it since. 🙂
Linda wrote: "I have a very small phone, so reading an entire book on it feels weird so I haven’t done it since..."It does take getting used to. I resisted it for years until I was forced to after laser eye surgery (LASEK has a longer recovery time than LASIK). By the time my eyes healed I was used to it. Of course, phone sizes vary. I'm glad you're giving it a try!
I downloaded CH from Gutenburg. It seems fitting that I will read my first Trollope with this group :-)
I down loaded CH from Gutenburg on my computer and now can read it on my computer screen. I have some program from my local library that manages it. But I think I saw that it had about 6 different ways to download. Good luck. peace, janz
This will be my first Trollope, too, Jantine. Oh, my... that sounds very inappropriate if one is just hearing it and not seeing the spelling!
Mod
It's good to hear that the Curiosity Club will be the place where you read your first Trollope novel. I don't really know on what terms both authors were but in The Warden, Trollope has a not too flattering persiflage of Dickens enter the stage, a famous writer whom he calls Mr. Popular Sentiment.
Thank you, Tristram. Persiflage is my new word for the day. It only makes me feel somewhat better that when I typed it in, my phone didn't know it either. :-)
Mary Lou wrote: "It only makes me feel somewhat better that when I typed it in, my phone didn't know it either. :-)"I hadn't heard of the word either! Thinking about it, a Word of the Day discussion thread would be fun! It could include words/phrases that aren't commonly heard anymore or that have fallen into disuse. Or words still used, but mostly in a different way (for example, all the ejaculation in the Sherlock Holmes stories).
I like words that sound like their meaning, like buzz, zip, susurration, and beastly. And then there are the words whose sounds and meanings are in conflict. "NO! NO! That word can't mean that." We should list them both.And why we're at it, will someone please explain why so many of us U.S. lifers confuse Your and You're, and, There, Their, and They're. I want to know why I do this. So whose the professor who knows?
Xan wrote: "And why we're at it, will someone please explain why so many of us U.S. lifers confuse Your and You're, and, There, Their, and They're..."Trust me, it's not just Americans. Plenty Brits confuse them too. I do feel, however, when it comes to using the word 'loose' instead of 'lose', the majority are American. So much so, I had to check it wasn't an alternative spelling!
Xan wrote: "So who's the professor who knows?..."I wonder if it's associated with dyslexia. This discussion is not helping my anxiety issues, I now feel I have to spell check every comment 😂
I learned not to really mind those things anymore, because I now realise not everyone had the privilege of education I had ;-) There used to be a time though, when it really irked me. In a 'come on, for me it's a second language and I know this, how can you not?' kind of way. I mellowed a bit I guess. And perhaps it's because it's a second language to me and I'm used to having to do more work to understand (well, not anymore really, but when I was younger) that I notice such grammar things more?
I kind of know the word persiflage, but not as an English word xD I know it in Dutch, where it's a word we stole from French, including the pronunciation.
I kind of know the word persiflage, but not as an English word xD I know it in Dutch, where it's a word we stole from French, including the pronunciation.
I blame some of it on autocorrect. Even when I go back, proofread, and correct the spelling, sometimes my phone will still think it knows best and change it again. I've decided my phone is an atheist, as it insists on changing "God" to "good" EVERY SINGLE TIME. As a logophile, I love the idea of a vocabulary thread. I don't know that it's something we'd have to update daily, which might make it turn into a chore, but maybe just as we discover new words (or archaic ones, seeing as we're reading Victorian novels), or are reminded of fun words we love. (Sussurration is a favorite of mine, too, Xan!)
And autocorrect, yes.
I like the idea too. Although I have noticed at other places that such a thread usually either needs quite some attention, or it will die out.
I like the idea too. Although I have noticed at other places that such a thread usually either needs quite some attention, or it will die out.
Mary Lou wrote: "I love the idea of a vocabulary thread. I don't know that it's something we'd have to update daily, which might make it turn into a chore, but maybe just as we discover new words (or archaic ones, seeing as we're reading Victorian novels), or are reminded of fun words we love..."Great idea!
Mary Lou wrote: "I've decided my phone is an atheist, as it insists on changing "God" to "good" EVERY SINGLE TIME..."Ha! Or programmed by one.
Jantine wrote: "'come on, for me it's a second language and I know this, how can you not?'"Yes, and as an American, I thank you. I never had a good answer to that, but I do think that native speakers of english are more prone to making the mistake because english is their native language. However, don't ask me why. I have no good reason for thinking this, but I feel it in my lying bones.
Jane wrote: "Jane wrote: "Xan wrote: "So who's the professor who knows?..."Yes, whose was my sly attempt at humor.
Xan wrote: "Yes, whose was my sly attempt at humor."Ah, a little bit too sly for me!
Mod
I am going to set up a vocabulary thread where we can collect and discuss words, idioms, collocations and expressions. Talking about language is fascinating.
Mod
I'm heading there now, Tristram. I hope we can start with "collocations"!
Xan wrote: "Jantine wrote: "'come on, for me it's a second language and I know this, how can you not?'"
Yes, and as an American, I thank you. I never had a good answer to that, but I do think that native spea..."
I think you're right.
Just like German, I always struggled with the German grammar because it is so close to ours, but yet so different and it has so many rules! Then when we were on a group exchange to Germany I was told they could pick out the guy teaching German by his way too perfect grammar. Also apparently my struggles might've had to do with us always going to Germany and Austria on vacation. So I was used to just using the language, as opposed to learning it from school books and teachers with way too perfect grammar, before I ever got German in secondary school.
From that experience I can imagine it is kind of the same with English. I started learning English by learning the rules before I started using it. Native speakers started using it long before they started learning the rules.
Yes, and as an American, I thank you. I never had a good answer to that, but I do think that native spea..."
I think you're right.
Just like German, I always struggled with the German grammar because it is so close to ours, but yet so different and it has so many rules! Then when we were on a group exchange to Germany I was told they could pick out the guy teaching German by his way too perfect grammar. Also apparently my struggles might've had to do with us always going to Germany and Austria on vacation. So I was used to just using the language, as opposed to learning it from school books and teachers with way too perfect grammar, before I ever got German in secondary school.
From that experience I can imagine it is kind of the same with English. I started learning English by learning the rules before I started using it. Native speakers started using it long before they started learning the rules.
Exactly. I'm learning German. I am getting pretty good at beginner readings. So I get cocky and pull up the German version of Der Spiegel. . . . and . . . well . . . the only good thing about that is it's not a bad idea once in a while to slap your ego across its face when it gets too cocky, and Der Spiegel does that for me.One thing I, as a native english speaker, find odd is the accumulation of verbs at the end of a sentence or phrase. More odd is the separation of verb from prefix, with verb remaining second in sentence and prefix taking up residence all the way at the other end.
Structure differs from language to language, and I'm quite sure each structure seems quite normal and effortless to its native speakers. but language and thinking are intimately bound together, so I wonder if that means we think differently?
Mod
There's a very easy rule for when to separate the prefix of the verb and put it at the end of the sentence and when not. When the prefix is unstressed, but the stress lies on the verb proper, then it is never separated, but when the prefix carries the stress then you have to separate it. There may, of course, be exceptions to this rule because after all, it's the German language.
In a subordinate clause, the verb goes to the end of the sentence, whereas in a main clause, the verb is always the second part of speech in the sentence. So, in English, with German word order:
I / eat / a hamburger/ every morning.
Every morning / eat / I / a hamburger.
A hamburger / eat / I / every morning.
I / am feeling / hungry / because / I / not yet / a hamburger / have eaten.
Pretty straightforward, isn't it? ;-)
Thanks, Tristram. All I want to do is read German, and learning to read German is easier than learning to speak or write it. Sometime when we are all bored, you can tell us who the sadist is who thought it would be fun to randomly assign male, female, and neutral articles, pronouns, and adjectives to male, female, and neutral nouns. (e.g. der Tisch -- the very male table!! or das Kind -- the very neutral child) Ho Ho Ha Ha. It's a blast.Just kidding. Once you get past the forest of case endings, the language is easy.
Mod
There's a very easy rule for when to separate the prefix of the verb and put it at the end of the sentence and when not. When the prefix is unstressed, but the stress lies on the verb proper,..."
That made about as much sense as your way of writing dates, none.
Mod
Linda wrote: "Hmmm....my library system doesn't seem to even have a single copy of this and I don't have an e-reader. I'll have to scout out the used bookstore this weekend and see if I can find a copy. Otherwis..."Oh gosh! Are you reading this? It will be so good to read with you and this group as they start in this new direction. I see you still have the small phone too. :P I downloaded a free copy from Kindle, like a few of the others in here. Hopefully, if small phone reading doesn't tide you over, you still have other options.
Whatever you decide, I hope to see you. :)
Mod
It all depends on when you have your breakfast. When I have enough time for starting into the day, I like to start it with a sumptuous meal.
That stress rule most certainly does make sense, but in order to apply it, you'd have to know how to stress a word, and I don't know whether there are any rules for that in German or whether, like in Russian, stressing is so arbitrary that you have to learn the stress for every word. I never really gave it a lot of thought.
Oh, my gosh, Tristram, do you speak Russian, too? What other languages do you speak? Assuming Spanish?
Ami wrote: "Oh gosh! Are you reading this? It will be so good to read with you and this group as they start in this new direction. I see you still have the small phone too. :P"I have slacked off in reading classics, so I would like to try and fit some in this year. This could be the first of 2023. My ambitions are always greater than my free-time, though. :(
And yes, I have the original iphone SE, which is small! I just replaced the battery after having it for 6 years. I will see how long I can keep it going before I have to give up and get a new, larger phone. Even the new SEs are bigger! I think I had my original flip phone for 11 years, so it will be a competition. :D
Mod
I got the chance to learn Russian for three years at my school, i.e. growing up in Western Germany, I was not forced to learn Russian but did it out of an interest in that language. I'd never be able to read Dostoevsky in Russian, though.
As to Spanish, I never learned it but picked it up from my wife and as I learned Latin at school, it was not too tricky for me to adapt to Spanish. Nowadays, I can read Spanish texts all right and whenever my wife gives me an order in Spanish, I can understand it and carry it out immediately.
I think I'd quite like your wife, Tristram. I could certainly learn a thing or two from her. I took Latin and Spanish in high school, one semester of French in college (that was a disaster - all those unnecessary letters!), and did a mini course on Russian in college. Oh - and a couple semesters of American sign language. Sadly, I remember next to nothing, as I had little opportunity to use any of it on a regular basis.
My mother-in-law was a Japanese war bride but, wanting to assimilate, and undoubtedly facing prejudice, she never taught her children Japanese, though she spoke it frequently with her friends. So my husband doesn't speak a word of it, but can mimic her accent perfectly, so that many who don't know him would assume Japanese is his first language. It's not a marketable skill, but gets a laugh when he pulls it out at parties.
Tristram wrote: "Dear Curiosities,As both Cousin Henry and Wuthering Heights had ten votes all in all in our poll, I think it best not to have another poll but to read both books, the shorter one before the longe..."
Ok- I have been waiting to ask this. Is is Cousin Henry or Uncle Henry? If she is the granddaughter of Uncle Indefer, is Henry not her Uncle? Or her grand uncle? This probably does not matter but I am not certain how he would inherit before her. Of course I admit that I do not live in a monarchy or any place where inheritance rules are so exact. He is her relative, I do not deny but does this have to do with the rule that Great Britian recently changed? peace, janz
Lost in America. where we just elect crooks to take the wealth.
Peacejanz wrote: "I have been waiting to ask this. Is is Cousin Henry or Uncle Henry?"Llanfeare had belonged to Indefer Joneses for many generations. When the late Squire had died, now twenty years ago, there had been remaining out of ten children only one, the eldest, to whom the property now belonged. Four or five coming in succession after him had died without issue. Then there had been a Henry Jones, who had gone away and married, had become the father of the Henry Jones above mentioned, and had then also departed. The youngest, a daughter, had married an attorney named Brodrick, and she also had died, having no other child but Isabel.
I am going to try and break this down and try to understand it. I might be mistaken in my analysis.
Llanfeare had belonged to Indefer Joneses for many generations. When the late Squire had died, now twenty years ago, there had been remaining out of ten children only one, the eldest, to whom the property now belonged.
The late Squire had ten children. At the time of the late Squire's death, only 'Uncle Indefer' remained alive of the offspring. He inherited the estate.
Four or five coming in succession after him had died without issue.
During the twenty years that the current Squire, Uncle Indefer, has owned the estate, four or five nephews next in line to the estate (evidently, sons of the current Squire's siblings and grandsons of the late Squire) died without issue. These four or five next in line must have come before Cousin Henry in the order of succession.
Then there had been a Henry Jones, who had gone away and married, had become the father of the Henry Jones above mentioned, and had then also departed.
Uncle Indefer had a sibling called Henry, who had a son, also called Henry. The younger Henry Jones is Uncle Indefer's nephew, being the son of his sibling.
The youngest, a daughter, had married an attorney named Brodrick, and she also had died, having no other child but Isabel.
The youngest of the late Squire's offspring was Isabel's mother, who died having had only one child. Isabel's mother would be Uncle Indefer's sister. That would make Isabel the niece of Uncle Indefer (being the daughter of Uncle Indefer's youngest sibling) and cousin of the younger Henry Jones (being the son of her mother's sibling).
Mod
Thank you for the clarification of matters that Trollope rather condenses in his presentation - probably because Victorian readers were more used to intricate family relations and their legal implications than most of us are today.
Seeing that the Curiosities are already chomping at the bit to start discussing the novel, and happening to have already written the introduction into the first reading part, I am going to open the first thread in a few minutes.
Mod
I took Latin and Spanish in high school, one semester of French in college (that was a disaster - all ..."
Yes, French is rather lavish with its letters, Russian (as German) is only with its consonants.
Sign language is very interesting. I sometimes wonder how all the words there are can be expressed in gestures. I often wish I could do lip-reading, which would help me a lot in class rooms. A teacher that I trained was extremely good at languages, and she even spoke Turkish and Arabic, and once, when two Turkish children started slagging off some of their teachers in Turkish, she listened in for a while and then, in Turkish, she said, "I probably ought to let you know that I can understand Turkish", and the two boys blushed all over their faces.
Teaching children two languages in their infancy was what my wife and I had wanted to do, too, she being from Argentina, and I from Germany, but it is not so easy as it sounds, and so, mostly German is spoken in our house. Our son, however, can speak Spanish, more or less, whereas our daughter can't.
Thanks Jane for winnowing this out. I got it. I guess that Henry is the rightful heir because he is male and his father was older than Isabel's mother. Got to keep those males in power!! Thank you. peace, janz
Sorry, everyone. I’m not going to be able to get to this book right now. Life has been hectic and I’m still trying to work my way through the print book I thought I would have finished by now.
Linda wrote: "Sorry, everyone. I’m not going to be able to get to this book right now. Life has been hectic and I’m still trying to work my way through the print book I thought I would have finished by now."No worries, Linda. We've all been there! Hope things settle down for you soon.
Mod
Linda,
When life is hectic, it's probably best to slow down and not to start yet another book ;-) Maybe, you'll have more time when we are starting Wuthering Heights.
As both Cousin Henry and Wuthering Heights had ten votes all in all in our poll, I think it best not to have another poll but to read both books, the shorter one before the longer - because starting with the shorter book will give us insight as to how much people will engage in discussions and if group discussions will work here also on books that were doubtless not written by Dickens.
Here is the reading schedule for Cousin Henry, which is quite short because the book is short:
19/01 – 25/01 Chapters 01-06
26/01 – 01/02 Chapters 07-12
02/02 – 08/02 Chapters 13-18
09/02 – 15/02 Chapters 19-24
Setting up this schedule, it first struck me that the number of chapters can be divided by four and by eight, and so I decided to have four weeks of reading à six chapters, which leaves us with a weekly amount of Trollope that is good to handle. Drawing out a short novel like CH would foster boredom, whereas the charm of our group discussions also lay in not reading everything at once but having certain weekly sections - and keeping future chapters out of these discussions, so that we were all on the same page.
Whereas each weekly read begins on a Thursday, I start the discussion thread on that week on a Saturday (or Sunday), so please do not post anything outside the upcoming thread but use the two days from Thursday to Saturday to get ideas for the discussions. Remember that I am based in Europe, so my Saturday will start some hours before yours (if you are in America) ;-)
What's more to say? Hmmm, those who have never taken part in a Curiosity discussion before, please read the house rules - there are just four of them - before starting.
I hope we will have lively discussions again!