Artificial Condition (The Murderbot Diaries #2)[September 10, 2023]

[Yanique, Thread Master]

This is a Buddy Read for Artificial Condition by Martha Wells starting September 10, 2023.

[Narilka]

I started :D Through Ch 2 (view spoiler)[I wasn't expecting this to be about Murderbot's learning to make friends with a ship! Very interesting. I think the experience should teach Murderbot a few things.

It amuses me to no end that other bots/ships like to just watch series too lol (hide spoiler)]

[Narilka]

Ch 3 (view spoiler)[I'm surprised Murderbot went through with the surgery. I suppose if it wants to learn to appear to be more human this ship has plenty of references for it to practice with. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I zoomed through my re-read today, in my breaks from rating/reviewing stuff...

This one has always felt like a transition piece, between the first story and the mysteries it's trying to solve in the next one(s)...

Re: chapter 3: (view spoiler)[the surgery seems so drastic... but Murderbot knows the power of body-recognition software, I guess... (hide spoiler)]

[Felina]

Aaaahhhh I opened the spoiler even though I haven’t read this yet. I thought it was the first book. *runs out of the thread*

[Narilka]

Through Ch 7 (view spoiler)[This is a very interesting read. Murderbot learning to blend better with humans is fascinating and possibly heroic in the sense of it moving past the discomfort and fear of the situation to continue it's own personal mission and that of its clients. I've really enjoyed having ART along. (hide spoiler)]

[Felina]

I just started this at 3am this morning. We’re camping and I got the bad bed. Not much sleep happened but I did follow the antics of our favorite Murderbot.

[Narilka]

I finished. (view spoiler)[I'm going to miss ART. I hope we run into that ship again in the future.

Interesting commentary on what it is to be human. For a novella this was surprisingly deep. (hide spoiler)]

[Graeme]

Hi All, I'll jump into this later today.

[Ann-Marie]

I read this Thursday (view spoiler)[I enjoyed it but not as much as the first. I thought ART was awesome and I am sad they parted, I was a little surprised he alowed ART to make the modifications to it's body but it makes sense and Murderbot trying to learn to appear human was interesting. The new group Murderbot signed with made all of the bad decisions but it all worked out for them. I love that Murderbot went searching for clarity about the prior murderous rampage and I hope he meets up with the group from book 1 again. Looking forward to the next! (hide spoiler)]

[Tonari no Emily]

Through Chapter 2 (view spoiler)[ ART is my favorite ever! I've never fallen in love with a character faster than this chapter with the two watching series together... (hide spoiler)]

[Nyssa]

Read this today. (view spoiler)[

1. ART freaked me out initially; I wish the two could have traveled together a little longer. I hope they get to meet up again.

2. I knew MB would have learned he wasn't liable for the "event" at Ganaka Pit, but I wish he could have gotten more closure. I wonder if he's going to look into it any further.

3. The sexbot situation was a surprise; seeing what she does next would be interesting.

4. MB's efforts to appear more human were both necessary and bitter-sweet. I'm intrigued as to what other steps he'll decide to take going forward. I'm excited to see what adventure he embarks on next.

(hide spoiler)]

[Tonari no Emily]

Finished! Love this one... (view spoiler)[ MB trying to go out on its own to figure out if it really did kill the humans/how it killed them. You can tell it grieves over that. And then MB finds more humans to care about...
Absolutely love ART and how it relates to humans by watching serials based on humans traveling in space.
And another overarching plot starts to take shape about what exactly happened here that caused a corp to kill all the humans stationed there (I forget what the place is actually called) (hide spoiler)]

[Graeme]

Reached chapter 4. An interesting start. It seems to me that (view spoiler)[Murderbot is trying to discover who they really are. I.e. A quest to establish their essential identity. (hide spoiler)]

[Felina]

I’m just finished with chapter 5. (view spoiler)[I’m so interested in the fact that Murderbot is totally unique. At least, based on the information we’ve been given. It is unheard of to have a self-aware SecUnit so nobody is looking for it. My guess is this happens a lot and there is an underground contingent of them but it’s interesting to watch how this story unfolds with everybody underestimating Murderbot.

Also, what was that sexbot about? I’m so curious. I love this book! (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Totally just zoomed through this. I'm so glad we scheduled these closer together, and not a month apart... they're just such nice little cozy nips of story... start craving the next as soon as one's done...

It's interesting rereading, and on audio--the narrator does a good job of embodying MB's exasperation... (view spoiler)[One of my favorite quotes was something like "Seriously? There were user guides I could send her that would have told her not to f*** with SecUnits."

I find it interesting how little time we really get with ART, but how quickly it? he? grows on us. And with all of that computation power, still needing to ride MB's interface to be able to properly understand media... and the difference between ART, who loves his job, and MB, who... loves its purpose, or having a purpose, but can't trust people anymore... and how SecUnits in media are always rogue bad guys.

I also find it interesting how both ART and MB are very naive in some ways--ART about pain and suffering, MB about human interactions--but then, so are the clients MB meets. They are naive about human capacity for cruelty and greed--and in many ways, each of their naive spots are covered by the others' areas of expertise.

I liked the sexbot angles--both that the comfortbots at the mining site tried to save the people from the rogue SecUnits, and that solo sexbot who hated his job even more than MB did... and that MB set free. I hope we see him again. Actually, I'd like MB to take him home to Dr. Mensa... (hide spoiler)]

[Graeme]

Just completed this. Loved it, but I was disappointed it ended where it did ... I'll just have to read the next book!!!

[Nirkatze]

Only 9 days until the next one! I'm curious Graeme, what about the ending disappointed--(view spoiler)[was it that you wanted more? Did you want MB to be back with Mensa? What didn't happen that you were hoping for? I'm very curious! (hide spoiler)]

[Graeme]

I wanted more ....

It seemed abrupt.

Yes. I'm keen for the next read.

[Nirkatze]

LOL Yeah, me too... these stories always leave me hungry... one thing that when we hit the full-length novel it's especially satisfying... you hit the point when you've gotten used to Murderbot stories ending, and realize you're only 1/3 of the way through... that's a nice moment.

[Graeme]

Ohhh! Sounds good.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Graeme wrote: "I wanted more ....

It seemed abrupt.

Yes. I'm keen for the next read."

These first 4 novellas definitely feel like 4 parts of a larger novel...

[Graeme]

Indeed, Iain.

[Nirkatze]

Just reiterating again how glad I am these BRs're scheduled fairly close to each other...

[Narilka]

Definitely.

[Choko]

Up to Ch. 5.... Let me first say, I am in love with ART!!! (view spoiler)[ MurderBot and ART's friendship development is absolutely adorable!

Emily, I just got to your comment on Ch. 2 and I feel exactly the same way!!!! ❤️

At first I was kind of upset with MB for leaving Dr. Mensa, after her group were so wonderful to it, but I guess they did their job of "freeing" MB and allowing it to have its own agency with its own choices...

The meeting with ART and their bonding over the media shows, MB having to "hold ART's hand" through it being upset over characters dying, just stole my heart!!!

I was surprised they went with cutting two inches of MB's height instead of adding several inches and maybe grafting muscle, but I guess reduction is an easier surgery... The hair thing and the natural fidgeting programs were very cool though.

The new humans are so naive, but again he fell on nice ones. MB just saved them for the second time. It's obvious that the company is trying to kill them and they are in a very tough spot... (hide spoiler)]

Loving it so much!

[Paula]

I finished it and loved it as much as book one. I also agree that reading these novellas close together is the best since it leaves you itching for more (view spoiler)[ As all of you have said Murderbots interactions with Art were one of the highlights of the book. I also liked the little sentences when he said how he sneaked media in other places so that the humans don't catch it, it was hilarious

The only negative I have is that I liked the group of humans better in the first book than this one

I am also guessing the mystery of Murderbor being corrupted and killing humans will be expanded in other books. The human group will appear or maybe some people of that group will appear. If not then I would be a bit disappointed (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

I also finished and agree with all of you who loved it:))) I am so tempted to jump into the next one, but just thinking about how behind I am on my BRs, I can't justify it... I will wait:)))

[Nirkatze]

You don't have to wait that long, Choko... we're already at the 1-week minimum for points... ^^

Regarding Dr. Mensa & co--(view spoiler)[I think MB had a really good point, about Mensa "buying" his contract and becoming its "guardian" just being another word for "owner." If they truly mean what they said, about seeing MB as a person, then it shouldn't matter that MB left. At least, I mean, it's kind of rude for MB to do so without giving a head's up, but I can see how MB would be worried that giving notice would end up turning in to asking for permission, and easier to beg forgiveness and all that.

Murderbot definitely hasn't forgotten Dr. Mensa & co though, even if it has its own business to take care of first... (hide spoiler)]

[Graeme]

Nirkatze wrote: "You don't have to wait that long, Choko... we're already at the 1-week minimum for points... ^^

Regarding Dr. Mensa & co--..."

Indeed. MB needs to find out what happened in their past so that they can understand who they are. MB fears, (view spoiler)[that they are a killer. (hide spoiler)]

[Choko]

Yeah, I completely agree and understand their desire to find out the truth about themselves... I come from a very traditional culture, where you "belong" to your family and I think of Dr. Mensa & Co as their family, so I couldn't imagine just taking off like that, but again, this is a culture bias. Another one I need to shake, particularly since I have lived in the US since the early 90's... You would think I should think of family in a more permissive way, but tradition is hard to get away from...

[Nirkatze]

I like your perspective Choko--and maybe that will be true for Murderbot, in time... they haven't really had the opportunity yet to come to terms even with the idea of friends and family, and I agree with Graeme--one of the barriers to that is what set them on their path in book 2...

[Mel]

Ah! I forgot these were scheduled so close together. I mean, "Huzzah!" because I can inhale Murderbot like popcorn, but I'll have to get on this one soon. Will go through the comments in the meantime though.

[Mel]

@Narilka
Re: chapter 3
(view spoiler)[I hadn't thought this on previous reads, but seeing your comment on transformative surgery, divorced from the story, made me think of how it could be seen through an intersex lens, about individuals who exist as an in-between that makes society uncomfortable, being given surgery to fit a certain identity. Of course, here Murderbot makes the choice itself, for its own tactical reasons, vs. being done unwittingly as a baby, so different scenarios, obviously.

Still, it made me think about the ways that Murderbot's inbetween-ness can be relatable for bicultural identities, and all kinds of different people who find themselves caught... in-between. (hide spoiler)]

@Felina
"We’re camping and I got the bad bed. Not much sleep happened but I did follow the antics of our favorite Murderbot."
🤣🤣🤣 I felt that.

@Tonari no Emily
Re: chapter 2
""I've never fallen in love with a character faster..."
BIG SAME. I'm looking forward to starting this for precisely this scene!

@Nyssa
(view spoiler)["I knew MB would have learned he wasn't liable for the "event" at Ganaka Pit, but I wish he could have gotten more closure. "

Yes. THIS. I need to reread to remember more details, but I remember this being one frustration of this installment. I wanted... more. (hide spoiler)]

[Narilka]

I go back and forth on the novella thing. I love that it forces authors to be focused with the story, no fillers or fluff or the novella doesn't work. But I always want more! Guess that's a positive overall :)

[Mel]

Belated starting. Will probably hop right into Rogue Protocol though these go so fast.

Chapter 2:
(view spoiler)[Eeeeeeee! ARTARTARTARTART!
...
That is all. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 3:
(view spoiler)[I'm definitely dwelling more this time on Murderbot's identity, as a dual bot/organic construct, and its unwillingness to change its physical appearance as a metaphor for trans dysphoria. "This body represents me." "This body does not." The other part is how being seen as human... humanizes Murderbot and opens it up to the vulnerabilities of empathy and relationships and feeeeelings.

It's interesting how Murderbot doesn't have the same uncomfortable feelings at being different from other bots. In comparison, their social interactions are more straightforward and uncomplicated I suppose. But Murderbot doesn't seem to acknowledge how its organic human components set it apart from other entirely inorganic bots.

It has me thinking about other cultural "in-betweens." How if you're international, you may really believe that you belong to a particular country, but forget that others don't see you the same way. Tarzan Syndrome. (hide spoiler)]

chapter 4:
(view spoiler)[I looked at myself in the mirror for a long time.
Ahhh, this just screams to me trans experience.

Aaaand we've met our new batch of humans. From previous reads, I remember one... downside perhaps, to this series is not always being able to keep the human characters straight. The robot characters are all memorable to me, and of the original crew some more distinctive than others - Dr. Mensah, Gurathin, Arada... but I can't keep these three straight. Despite having unique appearances, I simply remember them as a trio. Maybe this time around I'll pick up on more of their defining characteristics. (hide spoiler)]

[Mel]

Chapter 5:
(view spoiler)[Awww yiss~ I had forgotten that they were part of a polycule. With them and Mensah's family, way to go Wells on more poly representation. (Come to think of it, Raksura has it too. It's so casually integrated, that I sort of forget it's there.)

I was starting to wonder just what kind of university owned ART.
Hehehehe... Not saying anything. :) (hide spoiler)]

Gosh I forgot how much I love the descriptions of Murderbot working. Just... how do you make cybersecurity this much fun? Like... it's really hard to make the series of operations sound tight and coherent and not just a bunch of babble. (If you've ever read a magical battle that's all amorphous mental pushing, you know what I mean.)

[Mel]

Finished. I know these are short, but they really do leave you itching for more.

(view spoiler)[I like how at the end there Maro asked Murderbot for a hug, and then when she saw it was uncomfortable, hugged herself instead.

After Tarpan is hurt:
...I had wanted to work with a group again, I had enjoyed how they had listened to me, I had put my need to get to RaviHyral above the safety of my clients.
Murderbot being surprisingly self-aware of its desire for human company. In addition to finding out about its own past, Murderbot gets a chance to mature socially and figure out what it wants for its future. (hide spoiler)]

Oh, and I did end up clarifying the 3 researchers a bit better in my head. (view spoiler)[With Tarpan being the naive trusting one, who goes back for the files. She was the one who had her hands up in the air when attacked. Maro is more worldly and wary, who didn't want to go in the first place, and is the first to recover from the shock of the attack. Meanwhile Rami is the diplomat, who is the most levelheaded. (hide spoiler)]

I also needed to be reminded of the details of Ganaka Pit. (view spoiler)[It was started by buggy malware that instead of taking over hauler bots... incited a murder spree? It somehow wasn't enough. The fact one company would sabotage another is believable enough. And since Murderbot's memory was purged, it makes sense that the evidence would be second-hand, not like a play-by-play of events from its own perspective. Maybe I was hoping for organic memories to surface? But then I realized my own dissatisfaction was simply mirroring Murderbot's own:

“I forgot to ask, did you get a chance to do the research you wanted to do here?”
“Yes. It was … inconclusive.” It had been damningly conclusive, it just hadn’t had the revelatory effect I had been, stupidly, hoping for. (hide spoiler)]

I also see how this installment feels the most transitory. (view spoiler)[It finishes with Murderbot simply catching the next ride to who-knows-where.
Speaking of which, I needed to grab some more downloads before my next transport left. It was going to be a long trip. (hide spoiler)]
I'm glad that this and the next one were released only a couple months apart. While All Systems Red could potentially stand on its own, these certainly lead into one another.

Will join you all with Rogue Protocol shortly. :)

[Graeme]

Insightful thoughts, Mel. Looking forward to seeing you on the next thread.

[Tonari no Emily]

Mel, I have a hard time keeping the humans straight in these as well. I appreciate your insights into them it helps me to distinguish them as well :)

Re Murderbot Identity (view spoiler)[ I didn't realize the metaphor for the trans experience in my first readthrough, but it's soooo there and I really appreciate it! (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

So loved reading all your thoughts Mel! Dittoing Emily on everything.

[Ann-Marie]

Regarding gender (view spoiler)[at my irl SFF book club today we were talking books in general and this series came up and for the most part the women (except for me) thought MB was female and the men thought male. Someone pointed out that she thought MB was female because of it's enjoyment of soap operas. (hide spoiler)]

[Tonari no Emily]

Oohhh interesting Ann-Marie! Did anyone do audio and have that color their perspective?

[Ann-Marie]

Tonari no Emily wrote: "Oohhh interesting Ann-Marie! Did anyone do audio and have that color their perspective?"

I am not certain. I do know the woman who made the point about the soaps absolutely hates audiobooks so I am certain she read the books.

[Nirkatze]

I ended up putting in a question on the GR page for All Systems Red about whether the author has given an official statement about MB's preferred pronouns. LOL.

[Mel]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Someone pointed out that she thought MB was female because of it's enjoyment of soap operas."

I totally get this, and also find it interesting what activities people will attribute a certain gender to.

Nirkatze, I think just from the book we get it/its pronouns, at least that's what the PreservationAux team uses and Murderbot does not object or mentally recoil. Murderbot also uses "it" for other constructs, such as the sexbot, and repeatedly asserts itself as being not human, so I think it's a fair conclusion.

That's another interesting thought: Did you assign a mental gender to the sexbot?

[Nirkatze]

I thought MB used it/its, but ended up defaulting to they/them in discussion...

Yeah, I thought of the sexbot as male with long dreadlocks for some reason...

[Mel]

I don't recall if later books have they/them or not. PreservationAux used it/its, I think in this book the trio of researchers always speak directly to Murderbot and never refer to it in third person. (I'm guessing it was written that way on purpose? Since they are assuming "Eden" is an augmented human, and would probably use they/them.)

I totally admit I imagined the sexbot as female, which definitely stems from the unconscious bias I have that sex work is primarily preformed by women. That was fun to realize, in an, "Oh shit," sort of way.

[Nirkatze]

Mel wrote: "I don't recall if later books have they/them or not. PreservationAux used it/its, I think in this book the trio of researchers always speak directly to Murderbot and never refer to it in third pers..."

Similar to how my internal barometer points to MB presenting as male, in a security position.

[Tonari no Emily]

Oh yeah for a lot of POVs where I'm not sure yet I default to male for some reason? Don't know what that says about my brain/biases lol
And I think I thought the sexbot was male because the "owner" was female? And there's a hetero-assumption lol