Foundryside (The Founders Trilogy #1)[May 1, 2023]

[Beena]

Also, I shall have you all know that I have had Destiny's Child stuck in my head for the past week! because of Chapter 30. Damn you, repetitive pop music!

I'll have to look out for this!

And Nirkatze, Waterfalls is by TLC, fairly sure DC don't have a song by that name!

[Beena]

Is the Locke Lamora one of the series that is not finished and is unlikely to ever be finished? Because I am VERY BITTER about GRRM and would like to avoid another incomplete series. I refuse to read that Rothfuss or however you spell it series, he is kind of a dick lol

Lol!

Unfinished series honestly doesn't work me up as much as it does other people... Personally, I can enjoy GRRM and Rothfuss' books; the quality and satisfaction of them is worth it to me even when the stories aren't fully complete (and I doubt they ever will be either).

[Beena]

Ok, I liked the action in Chapter 9, that, I can work with. (view spoiler)[The more thought-out weapons that could do serious harm were pretty cool. I had a feeling Sancia and the Dandolo guy would end up working together. Even though he's hunting her and sounds pretty daunting, it's pretty clear he's inherently good. The device that turned off the scrivings was unexpected and threw a nice curveball too. I wonder what commands have been scrived into the plate in her head? If there's more to it than she knows... (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Beena wrote: "So Sancia saw 2 people having sex and she referred to it as "coupling" and not "scrumming"? lol

I understood scrumming as anal rather than vaginal sex...

Soz for the detailed analysis guys lol"

Hmm I took it as a replacement for f*cking in general. Is there a glossary? lol

I have been listening for it: "So why did you just scrumming say so?"

[Ann-Marie]

Timelord Iain wrote: "The first is pretty satisfying… ends with MC and buddy on the run… future books try to setup in new locations… hijinks ensue… I think the plan is to return to home town in final book…"

I just got the audio on Chirp for book 1, we'll see about working it in, thanks for the info!

[Ann-Marie]

Beena wrote: "Unfinished series honestly doesn't work me up as much as it does other people... Personally, I can enjoy GRRM and Rothfuss' books; the quality and satisfaction of them is worth it to me even when the stories aren't fully complete (and I doubt they ever will be either)."

I think GRRM annoys me so much because how the show ended. I know the showrunners dropped the ball and are partially to blame but so is he. They didn't sign up to do fan fic and that is essentially what he forced them to do. This isn't the first book that has been delayed so I did not expect it to be completed when he initially said it would be but it has been years & years! And he is like 197 years old and I swear I read a story that said he disliked Sanderson finishing WoT and part of his will directs his wife to destroy any notes and such related to the remaining books so basically eff that guy.

I also hate unnecessary cliffhangers. Like I am fine with unresolved over-arching storylines in a series, just don't leave a character tied to the train tracks with a train heading there way and then take a year or more for resolution. The Stardust Thief comes to mind, I will absolutely not be continuing that series when book 2 comes out later this year because she left it with an unnecessary cliffhanger imho lol

[Ann-Marie]

Beena wrote: "Ok, I liked the action in Chapter 9, that, I can work with. [spoilers removed]"

(view spoiler)[When that guy blew up I was like so it's going to be like that? I am so here for it!!! (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Regarding Gregor (view spoiler)[Do you think Clef will bond with him? I will be a little upset if he is dead. (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Finished (view spoiler)[OMG Poor Clef! Poor Gregor! His mom is the absolute worst too with that mystery moth man/thing. Let's hope she didn't install a safety in Gregor when it comes to her. So Orso did grow on me eventually, I think his attitude towards Sancia rubbed me the wrong way in the beginning. I think it is funny he is all a man of the people now. I really hope Clef comes back at some point. (hide spoiler)]

I liked the characters, the world-building, magic system and all of the action! I liked the book overall and I think it sets up the next book nicely, very much looking forward to that.

[Nirkatze]

Mel wrote: "@Ann-Marie
I'm curious as to which reveal you are referring... I think I know. But I could be wrong, since it's so easy to get suspicions swirling about all sorts of things.

@Nirkatze
Isn't that s..."

LOL Comic panels envisioned....

Usually I feel like the actual heist part of the story takes up more time though--most heist stories are like... 2/5 planning, 2/5 heist, 1/5 running or epilogue or whatnot... and we've gotten like... 1/25 heist with no planning, and all running and post-stuff...

[Mel]

Re: cliffhangers
@Ann-Marie
Girl, same.
Unnecessary cliffhangers to me break the author-reader contract, that if I read your novel, I will get a complete story. Especially if it is the first in the series. Like a first date, I feel like I should be able to walk away afterwards if we're not compatible, and don't appreciate feeling manipulated into coming back for more.

@Beena
I'm most envious of your chill approach to unfinished series. I get it in theory, being able to appreciate just what's there. It's easier with a TV sitcom for example, where each episode is self-contained. But with complex fantasy storylines, my neurotic neurospicy brain will worry away at those loose threads endlessly if they are not finished off.

That's why I generally wait for series to finish before starting them. Like this one. Glad I get to read them one after another. :)

[Mel]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Finished"

Congratulations!

(view spoiler)[And I know, poor Gregor! He's my favoritest best boy, and I just want to cuddle him and make it better so he can be his springy, saucy, self again.

With Clef, I honestly thought that would be the last of him. But then Sancia vows to bring him back, so it sounds like that will be a goal for book 2 or 3. (hide spoiler)]

[Mel]

Nirkatze wrote: "LOL Comic panels envisioned....

Usually I feel like the actual heist part of the story takes up more time though--"

Well, I hadn't really thought of breaking it down before, but in classic heist/action movies, there's often an initial "job" as a setup, which kicks everything off. That stirs up the hornets nest in some way, with running/planning/action in the middle, then the big heist is at the end.

Between books and movies the story beats may not be exactly one-to-one, since a book has time for more content, but I think that general pattern still holds true.

[Ann-Marie]

Mel wrote: "Re: cliffhangers
@Ann-Marie
Girl, same.
Unnecessary cliffhangers to me break the author-reader contract, that if I read your novel, I will get a complete story. Especially if it is the first in the..."

I love that author-reader contract, that is exactly how it is! So now when I am ranting about cliffhangers in my in-person book clubs I will be using this <3

[Ann-Marie]

Mel wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "LOL Comic panels envisioned....

Usually I feel like the actual heist part of the story takes up more time though--"

Well, I hadn't really thought of breaking it down before, but ..."

I was okay with not getting the planning prior to the first heist but I think this book had several events that were like mini-heists. The tension from those along with the more graphic violence that I was expecting kept me engaged because loved that <3

I am also okay with non-traditional heists, my favorite heist movie is Reservoir Dogs and I wouldn't consider that a by the numbers example.

[Beena]

End of Part One (view spoiler)[ The flying guys exploding was unexpected but enjoyable lol. I do feel Bennett holds back from going all out with the violence and gore and stuff though. Like he partly goes there but not quite enough, I feel if you're gonna do it, you should go all the way....

I suspected earlier that Clef used to be human, that part about him remembering who he used to be was very interesting. I take it Mel's pic is referencing that scene..

Orso's an asshole, saved his life and he's an ungrateful shit.

I am a bit more interested now, several mysteries to solve and peeps to run away from, still nothing spectacular tho. (hide spoiler)]

[Beena]

Hmm I took it as a replacement for f*cking in general. Is there a glossary? lol

I have been listening for it: "So why did you just scrumming say so?"

Agreed, in that context it def compares to "fucking". I sorta vaguely remember that the description he gave for the origin of it though, was something like human waste on ships were pushed out of these holes, and then scrumming was the name for the thing that got pushed into the holes to clean them. Hence my line of thinking.. (But I'm not gonna go back and look for it lol).

[Beena]

@Ann-Marie Re GRRM:

Fair play, I didn't know some of those things, if they're true, they are pretty knob-ish. I wouldn't know with the show because I haven't watched it! :O (That's more because we never had the channel for it and I'm still not willing to pay for the boxset). But I agree, one of the things I was wary about, was the fact that they had to write the rest and basically turn it into a different story than what it's actually meant to be.

[Beena]

we've gotten like... 1/25 heist with no planning, and all running and post-stuff..

Def prefer it this way Nirkatze, otherwise I probably would've chucked it in... Just get on with it lol

[Beena]

@Mel Re Unfinished Series: Fair enough! We're all different, have different preferences and limits to what we are willing to accept or not accept in our reading/watching! It's everyone's own prerogative as to what they wanna engage with, after all it's for your own enjoyment!

neurospicy brain Hahaha!

[Nirkatze]

Beena wrote: "And Nirkatze, Waterfalls is by TLC, fairly sure DC don't have a song by that name!..."

Ack! Well I guess that shows how much I know about English music... does anyone have a youtube link for that Destiny's Child song that got stuck in people's heads...?

[Nirkatze]

Mel wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "LOL Comic panels envisioned....

Usually I feel like the actual heist part of the story takes up more time though--"

Well, I hadn't really thought of breaking it down before, but ..."

Ooo O.o! I think I just got to that next beat... makes total sense! Really enjoying everything...

[Mel]

Re: violence
*blink* Considering I don't find violence engaging, it's wild to me to think that one would want... more of it. I'm more likely to think, "Ugh... was that really necessary?" What I do like is the way chase scenes/action scenes get the characters to stretch their abilities and problem-solve. Fighting in and of itself I find rather boring.

And Beena, I'm in the same boat as you, I never watched GoT. After the way I heard it "ended," I think we may have dodged a bullet. (Sorry Ann-Marie!)


Re: scrumming
Beena, you're right. It was described as cleaning out waste holes, so I guess you could say the equivalent is more like sodding.

Re: Destiny's Child
Haha Nirkatze, I wasn't aware I'd infected anyone else yet, but here's the song. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmc8b...

[Mel]

Glad to hear you're enjoying things, Nirkatze, and good to hear things have picked up for you, Beena! Looking forward to more comments from y'all.

Also, I've been a very good and patient BR Buddy and have waited to start the sequel, but fair warning, I shall be picking it up in the next couple days, so get ready for more blarbity blarbing from me. :)

[Olivia]

Are we discussing the sequel in a different thread? I’m at the seaside for a few days and on mobile and always get lost in the forums.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Olivia wrote: "Are we discussing the sequel in a different thread? I’m at the seaside for a few days and on mobile and always get lost in the forums."

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Ann-Marie]

Mel wrote: "Re: violence
*blink* Considering I don't find violence engaging, it's wild to me to think that one would want... more of it. I'm more likely to think, "Ugh... was that really necessary?" What I do ..."

At this point I wish I had skipped either the books or the series. I should have known better but I thought with the pressure of the series happening maybe GRRM would sit his happy ass down at his desk and deliver the books in a much more timely manner. Or like at all /headdesk

But as far as violence in books, I love it when it is done well. Like Joe Abercrombie just does it so well, as terrible and graphic as it is I am so there for it. The action scenes here were solid (view spoiler)[especially when that first guy exploded and she realized how it happened and did it again! So here for that lol (hide spoiler)] I am not a fan of torture porn but John Wick kind of violence? Yes please, I can read/watch that all day <3

[Nirkatze]

re: Violence--is it weird that I rarely notice violence unless it is really extremely gratuitous? I just sort of catalogue it as something in the book and move on... unless someone hurts a cat or dog or child or my favorite character, then they must die. In painful ways. So John Wick = popcorn.

[Nirkatze]

re: Destiny's Child--thank you for link!! I had heard the song, but never seen the MV. Stayed up late to finish the book and am getting the reference... though I feel like it can apply to rather a lot of things... (view spoiler)[Like, Orso starting the company, and being like "We took down the biggest merchant family, b**ches!" or how Gregor can't die. Or how Sancia just keeps coming back stronger. And how all of them together are now dedicated to making a better place in Foundryside... (hide spoiler)]

Really liked the book, looking forward to sequel but will likely run late.

[Mel]

@Nirkatze
Hehe, yeah the song isn't really a spoiler in and of itself, since it could apply to like... a lot. But my goodness does it get stuck like a broken record in my skull.

(view spoiler)[Well, I'm not so certain that Gregor can't die. I guess technically, he did. And I'm sure there is some threshold of physical trauma that he can't come back from... But he sure can come back from a lot, as long as his mother is there to revive him. *cheerful wave* Happy Mother's Day, everybody!! (hide spoiler)]

Haha and meanwhile that's me, who's like, "What's a John Wick?" I mean, more power to those who can enjoy it. I get such sympathy pains/shudders when humans (or alien equivalent, etc) get hurt. Fortunately it's less visceral when reading, so I can tolerate it better. Eyugch, but yeah I usually prefer my violence to be against an undead skeleton army or the like. Need that layer of magical/inanimate separation.

Looking forward to Shorefall with y'all!

[Nirkatze]

LOL Happy Mother's Day! (And actually Happy Mother's Day, to all the mothers and pet-mothers and surrogate mothers out there...) (view spoiler)[Especially since I saw the song, and how it was aimed at separating from a specific someone and being stronger for it as everyone walking away from Ma D... (hide spoiler)]

re: Violence--that's a totally good point about reading v. visual... I do actually get the shudders and stomach butterflies when seeing/hearing sound effects of violence. Though so much of Hollywood these days has worked to turn violence into an art form... my mom just gets bored when watching it...

[Ann-Marie]

Mel wrote: "Haha and meanwhile that's me, who's like, "What's a John Wick?" "

So you see, there was this guy whose wife passed and she knew he wouldn't take her death well so she arranged to have a puppy delivered to him and some men killed the dog and the former assassin came out of retirement and made them PAY!!!!! So good <3<3<3

btw he kills a man with a book, I think it is in the third movie which was awesome! That was one of the 439 on screen kills across 4 movies. They are not for the feint of heart though but they are chef's kiss perfection to me lol

[Beena]

Finished! Personally, I found it alright, and that's as far as it goes really, nothing amazing or highly enjoyable, but I will say he is a very good storyteller, that's what allowed me to get through it pretty easily even though I wasn't fully invested. So I think I'll be stopping here with this series guys, but would probably be up for trying his other works in future.

(view spoiler)[It did kind of feel like events just clicked into place for the characters as the rest of the book unfolded. Only time I was genuinely surprised was at the revelation that Gregor's mother had made her own son a slave- it did actually make Gregor ten times more interesting and tragic.

Everything else was pretty average. Sancia revealing Clef to the crew seemed to completely come out of nowhere (even with the supposedly emotional talk beforehand). I did find a lot of the scriving theory talk pretty damn boring. And the forced relationship between Sancia and Berenice was ultra cringe. Ugh, spare me the melodrama, honestly.

The double cross and the trap set by Estelle caught my attention, didn't expect that, but she ended up not being much of an opponent in the last scene and the ending was pretty meh. There's supposedly these ultra powerful gods at war, that they'll all get caught up in, but it didn't make feel anything to be honest. Sorry to say I wasn't feeling this story as much as some of you guys. (hide spoiler)]

[Beena]

Re Violence;

@Mel, Ha! We're of opposite minds then! I love it! (As long as it's done well and not completely mindless or gratuitous). See, as to the problem solving due to chase/action, it has to be quick and serve the pace/scene otherwise if it gets too involved, as it sometimes did here, it ruins the flow of the scene for me.

@Ann-Marie Like Joe Abercrombie just does it so well, as terrible and graphic as it is I am so there for it.

Yasss, totally agree! I am a fan of Abercrombie and Lawrence (when he feels like it) style violence! And the first John Wick was absolutely awesome. (Feel like it went downhill after that unfortunately).

Re GOT: It's not really because I don't want to, I am/was curious when it was blowing up, I'm just stingy and didn't wanna spend so much just to watch it lol. (Plus the fact that I was wary and prefer books cos my mind can imagine it better). Tho, the fact that it came out quite a while ago now, might affect how mind-blowing it is- at the time it changed television didn't it, but I may have watched stuff that's of similar standard by now.

Re Scrumming: Technically I was right, but I realised after that, that you guys were in its use, he did intend it as substitute for "fucking"- Sancia exclaiming that Orso was scrumming her boss' daughter.

[Choko]

I am almost done with this... I have been reading it as a paper book and only had sparse time for it, but just needed to say - Cliff and Orso and Berenice are absolutely awesome!!! And the arguments with the inanimate objects are precious!

[Nirkatze]

LOL I love the conversations Cliff has with the scrivings! "oh, are you sure about that? No, actually..."

[Choko]

You know what the scrivings' thinking reminded me of? The stick in Stormlight Archives - no, I am a stick! :)))

[Nirkatze]

Choko wrote: "You know what the scrivings' thinking reminded me of? The stick in Stormlight Archives - no, I am a stick! :)))"

LOL!! I love stick!!!!

They also kind of make me think of the chalkings in the Rhithmatist... very different though...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Also makes me think of Eli Monpress manipulating spirits…

[Ann-Marie]

Timelord Iain wrote: "Also makes me think of Eli Monpress manipulating spirits…"

I haven't thought about that series for years! I read those books just about 10 years ago (in September) and clearly they made an impression because I recognized the name immediately. Looks like I have another re-read but new series on my radar....

[Choko]

I never read those, although I have had them for years... Maybe we should do a BR one day...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I setup an Eli Monpress BR around here a few years ago, after first reading Heartstrikers, and it really solidified Rachel Aaron as an author that likes to write about sentient spirits, in my mind... The Last Stand of Mary Good Crow & the Crystal Calamity series has just proven it further, as the lore is fully explored...

[Ann-Marie]

Choko wrote: "I never read those, although I have had them for years... Maybe we should do a BR one day..."

I would definitely be interested.

[Nirkatze]

Ditto--line up after DFZs?

[Choko]

Sure:)))