Defiant (Skyward #4)[November 28, 2023]

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 45, I think, maybe 44--(view spoiler)[I find it really interesting how in a direct fight, Spensa is able to predict Brade's every move, while in a long game (like Spensa's capture), Brade was able to predict Spensa's every move. Makes me think of the conversation she had with Hesho, about how people who grow up scrappy are always thinking of how to stay alive and are good at reacting to the immediate, while those who grow up in luxury, like Jorgen--and seemingly, like Brade in W's care--grow up learning how to plan for the long game. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 47--(view spoiler)[the taynix!!! The hundreds who give comfort! Aww(insert many more w's here to lengthen sound.)

Okay, so I'm getting really curious about the figments. A random throwaway line earlier mentioned that M-Bot's construction/programming seemed to come from the figments... and Spensa just contacted Vapor in her reach out for support... Are they (were they once?) secretly working against the Superiority? Are they also an ascended AI--as they are bodiless? (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Grats on the finish, Rob! Looking forward to reading your spoilers--I should be finishing tonight!

I also saw that news about Stormlight--we do need to get a reread started... I think I'll pop over into the Buddy Read Invite and ask around...

[Rob]

Random comment (view spoiler)[If they had killed off Doom/Spy Slug I would have had a fit. Got my daughter a Doom Slug stuffie a few years ago :) (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Jenna wrote: "Chapter 2 [spoilers removed]"

That was my exact same reaction! I was expecting to have to sweat for a while.

[Nirkatze]

Rob wrote: "Random comment [spoilers removed]"

Yeah, that would have been too dark.

[Nirkatze]

Timelord Iain wrote: "And finished... and immediately had to do a google... looks like Skyward Legacy is a trilogy of books being written primarily by Janci Patterson, as another collaborative project... first book is 6..."

Finished! So many good moments!! (view spoiler)[Gran-Gran going out with style! Hesho not only being a Kitsen Ninja.... but a Kitsen Jedi Ninja. M-Bot making his own M-Bot 3.0 body. Brade getting defeated by teamwork. Delvers saving the "little delvers"! Taynix now controlling who they bestow their talents to, and making the decisions for former "prime intelligence" planets. Chet with moustaches! Just so many good moments! And each of them properly earned too.

I do feel like Sanderson's romance practice with Tress & Yumi has paid off--he's not going to be blowing up the romance shelves, but I was satisfied with the wrap-up with Spensa & Jorgen, and it even got a spontaneous "aww" out of me.

@Iain & Rob--I like how we're all thinking about how this wrap-up is planting seeds for the next series... I was thinking of Old Earth and the Figments--but forgot about the puzzle of the Portals. It was nice to get a paragraph of Spensa wondering about different unsolved mysteries--a hint of what's to come. The question of a time jump is a good one too--with a title like "Legacy" I'm expecting a "next generation"--Children of Spensa & Jorgen, FM & Rig, maybe even Arturo & Alanik... there was a one-line mention of a "girlfriend" in Kimmalyn's chapter--not sure if it was meant romantically or platonically. If Nedder procreates... that poor spouse... (hide spoiler)]

[Rob]

Nirkatze wrote: "Timelord Iain wrote: "And finished... and immediately had to do a google... looks like Skyward Legacy is a trilogy of books being written primarily by Janci Patterson, as another collaborative proj..."

(view spoiler)[I was thinking he might do a "search for the lost mission of heroes of the war" or some such nonsense with a new generation. Tropey but possible (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

(view spoiler)[Known info on Coppermind says it'll be shortly after the end of Defiant, with the same/similar cast... (hide spoiler)]

[Rob]

(view spoiler)[Ah, I'll go with a few months in, maybe a bit bored, waiting for excitement, and then being a YA novel...they find it rather quickly and all hell breaks loose from here. I am kinda hoping since he is going to co-author it like the novellas, if it will be more of a multi-POV novel series. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

re: Legacy--(view spoiler)[I did enjoy the different POVs in Skyward Flight... definitely wouldn't be surprised, since Janci Patterson is taking point on Legacy--plus, Skyward is Spensa's story, right? So, other folks' turn to shine...

Though I imagine the redacted Superiority Planets will play a role, after Jorgen pitching that to Spensa... (hide spoiler)]

[Jenna, I'd be free if not for Temper & Edgewalker]

Up to Chapter 19, a couple of random thoughts

(view spoiler)[While it's completely understandable that Spensa would not be of sound mind after going through all her experiences with the Superiority and the Nowhere, the self-tortured "I am a monster, I am a weapon, I should be the only one having to make hard decisions so I can save others from feeling the way I do, no one understands me" is getting old fast. It's YA, so I always expect a healthy dose of egocentrism from the protagonist, but it's certainly heightened in this installment of the series.

I loved Jorgen calling her out on it, though, and it was especially satisfying with the audio version to hear Spensa getting dressed down. It felt like a very realistic relationship moment for these two. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Jenna wrote: "Up to Chapter 19..."

I agree--(view spoiler)[I definitely wanted to shake Spensa every time she started down that mental road... definitely a common YA trope... but story is saved by her friends and family doing that for us.... (hide spoiler)]

[Narilka]

Jenna wrote: "Up to Chapter 19, a couple of random thoughts..."

I agree. It's turned what I hoped for an exciting read into an Ok one. I mean I've been reading this for over two weeks now and just finished part two/Ch 22 last night. (view spoiler)[I enjoyed the slice of life moments with Hesho and then the crew cleaning.

Spensa spending so much time being "not Spensa" and all the doubts isn't working for me. I'm glad she had the cleaning moment with the crew just in time for Brade to force the plot along. Ironically I'm also irritated with Brade for spoiling such a nice moment lol

Perhaps this book and I are only meant to be 3 stars. I think I'm more disappointed that I'm just not enjoying this read as much as I'd hoped. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Narilka wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Up to Chapter 19, a couple of random thoughts..."

I agree. It's turned what I hoped for an exciting read into an Ok one. I mean I've been reading this for over two weeks now and just..."

I feel you Narilka... though I think the ending turned it around for me. I'm curious to see how my opinion changes on reread, years from now...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I definitely think Narilka is close to a tipping point in the story?... Chapter 25ish?...

[Narilka]

Through Ch 30. Gran Gran is my hero. (view spoiler)[Such a great speech!

Ok, so now Spensa has gone OBE (out of body experience). And she's still just sort of wringing her hands in inaction. A lot of metaphysics in this series. At least with the fake ship fight we saw a little of the old Spensa again, which I've missed. She's also been making really poor decisions, falling for whatever Brade has planned. I think this is for character growth but I'm finding it more annoying than anything. Not sure YA is working for me right now as I DNF'd another YA not long back too.

Winzik was evil murdering Comfort. Glad Brade betrayed him and Spensa finished him off. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

OMG I love that scene with Gran-Gran! Yeah, I think you're about at the "turning point" Iain mentioned... Fingers crossed it is effective for you...

[Narilka]

I finished. It did work for me, it was a proper ending to the series and satisfying. I just wish I'd enjoyed the previous 300 pages to get there more. Scanning reviews there are a lot of 5 stars so either others are more forgiving or they enjoyed the whole book more. I'll likely give this 4 stars.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Acceptable ;)

Sorry it was a mixed bag... I was pretty forgiving, I guess...

I feel you, tho... with authors of a certain fanbase, it gets hard to find negative reviews on Goodreads... because the fans upvote one another, I guess...

[Nirkatze]

Narilka wrote: "I finished. It did work for me, it was a proper ending to the series and satisfying. I just wish I'd enjoyed the previous 300 pages to get there more. Scanning reviews there are a lot of 5 stars so..."

I think I wrote off my discomfort with those same things you felt as "YA tactics" so didn't downrate it... but I totally understand downrating for those reasons too...

Glad the ending redeemed the story though! Grats on the finish!

[Paula]

I have started and I am enjoying it a lot. Until chapter 15 (view spoiler)[ I like how spensa is feeling left out since many things happened to her crew and herself and see things different now.

And MBot is a ghost! He is the best

And spensa communicating with Doomslug is the cutest

Spensa being bonded with Chet is much more problematic than I thought. But I think he will eventually separate from her and teach the other delvers to deal with emotions, alongside MBot (hide spoiler)]

[Paula]

Nirkatze , part 1 (view spoiler)[yeah, brade doesn't feel to me like an evil person, but as you said arrogant. Though I think it was mentioned she was in her twenties so she isn't a teenager (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Yay! Welcome to the party, Paula! re: Chapter 15--(view spoiler)[Doomslug starting to talk to Spensa is totally the cutest! Nice theory on Chet... lips are sealed.

Hah! When you get to be my age, 20s are still teenagers. (hide spoiler)]

[Julian]

So I have yet to buy the book but this is definitely on my horizons. I was wondering is this supposed to be the series finale or is there going to be another book afterwards?

[Narilka]

It is the finale for Spensa's story. There's supposed to be a Legacy series after though it will feature different main characters if I understood correctly.

[Chris]

Yes, Skyward Legacy is going to be a trilogy after Defiant. It will be primarily written by Janci Patterson. I'm okay with that as she did the majority of the early drafts of the novellas and they're fantastic.

From Sandersons weekly update, Janci is almost done with the first book and he'll do a pass through for revisions.

[Nirkatze]

I also loved the Skyward Flight novellas--and that makes me excited for Legacy... I'm glad Sanderson is starting to branch out into partner-writers, letting others play in his sandboxes... kind of makes me think of David Weber, with a million partner-writers and a million series... problem with him is that he never finishes anything, and I feel like Sanderson I can trust to have an endgame and hit it well.

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Nirkatze wrote: "I also loved the Skyward Flight novellas--and that makes me excited for Legacy... I'm glad Sanderson is starting to branch out into partner-writers, letting others play in his sandboxes... kind of ..."

Not sure any other authors have their own publishing house the way Sanderson has now, with Dragonsteel Entertainment... lets them do all the fancy art included in his books, and now he's branching into his own audiobook division starting with them co-written stories like The Original with Kowal, I think...

[Nirkatze]

The closest comparison I can think of on the publishing side is how Michael Sullivan has turned Kickstarter into a smooth indy-publishing process--with his son now running kickstarters for other authors too... Wraithmarked Creative also, is a publishing company run by indy-authors, for indy-authors... doesn't have the Sanderson momentum though.

Weber comparison is more... how they both have a LOT of different sandboxes, and now Sanderson is bringing in other authors to help him get those stories out...

Weber recently had an update where he went through how many different universes he had running, and how many books he thought were left to tell the story... he's getting up there in years, and is starting to shop around for co-authors to essentially take over and finish up after he's not around anymore...

[Paula]

until chapter 35 and a lot of things have happened (view spoiler)[ first of all, that Gran-Gran speech was incredible. Its nice to see where Spensa got her flair for the dramatic

Poor Comfort! who would have thought a slug being killed would hurt so much. On the other hand, yay! The slugs are now citizens in the Defiant coalition!

I also didn't saw Brade being the secret leader and kidnapping spensa. It made sense since Wiznic is a bureaucrat and he wouldn't have known how to be a military leader. And this way we get to see another human conflict since the leader is a human and the other humans are also rebelling (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Paula wrote: "until chapter 35 and a lot of things have happened first of all,..."

You're pulling out some of my favorite and emotional highlights there, Paula...

[Chris]

Started today...

[Narilka]

Paula wrote: "until chapter 35 and a lot of things have happened ..."

Yeah, you're past the pivot point. Enjoy the ending :)

[Ryan]

I agree with most of the comments here. Spensa's self-denigration got old, the romance was decent.

(view spoiler)[Brade as the actual leader was pretty surprising. I wonder how she got everyone to follow her?

A few other questions:

In Chapter 6, Spensa notes that the moon is mysteriously linked to the woman's body. Is this related to beliefs about the menstrual cycle, or some mythological story?

In Chapter 21, Hesho talking to Spensa about ship repair: "She mentions we might want to look over the air intake channels first." Who is "she"?

In Chapter 37, the slug didn't let Kimmalyn save it, but let her get away. Why?

In Chapter 47, after Gran-Gran dies, Spensa feels basically everyone as she reaches out cytonically, including a great many noncytonics. Is this indicative of the slugs enhancing Spensa's cytonic output? Or her inherent cytonic ability at this point? Or does it indicate that even noncytonics have a small cytonic ability?
(hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Grats on the finish, Ryan, and great questions--I wish I remembered well enough to engage in more of a discussion, but I think I remember one thing... (view spoiler)[Chapter 37--I can think of two reasons the slugs didn't let Kimmalyn save them... either they were too scared of the death threats to move and didn't trust our folks enough to take that leap of faith, or they were staying to give emotional support to each other, all trapped together... I feel like this was considered and mentioned in the book somewhere, and something else is tickling my memory, but I can't reach it.

I like the idea of the slugs amplifying Spensa's cytonics, but also that everyone has a little cytonic-ness... (hide spoiler)]