Defiant (Skyward #4)[November 28, 2023]

[Yanique, Thread Master]

This is a Buddy Read for Defiant by Brandon Sanderson starting Fall, 2023.

[Narilka]

In!

[Narilka]

State of the Sanderson just released. Looks like this book is pushing to Fall. Once I see a date I'll request an update by the mods on the BR date.

[Nirkatze]

Narilka wrote: "State of the Sanderson just released. Looks like this book is pushing to Fall. Once I see a date I'll request an update by the mods on the BR date."

Oh sweet, that's right, it's past his birthday. Thanks for the head's up Narilka. I always love reading that. I miss the lazy days when I'd get it in my email...

[JL]

Okay, just started Skyward #1 today. Looking forward to this one!

[Julian]

definitely in for this!

[Katie]

I'm going to keep an eye on this one too :D

[Nirkatze]

JL wrote: "Okay, just started Skyward #1 today. Looking forward to this one!"

If you feel like chatting about Skyward etc, I'm pretty sure there are archived threads for it... XD

[Claudia]

I’m in too!! Let’s wrap it up 😄

Maybe we can read the novella 3.5 before?

[Nirkatze]

Claudia wrote: "I’m in too!! Let’s wrap it up 😄

Maybe we can read the novella 3.5 before?"

I'm sure you won't be alone for that!

[Mel]

I still need to read Cytonic and the novella, but I’ll probably push those back closer to this release.

[Nirkatze]

Part of me wants to do a full series reread to get the whole picture, even though I just read Cytonic last year...

[Rob]

in for book 4, but probably won't re-read. I've read all the short stories already too.

[Tonari no Emily]

I still need to read the series! These are the only Sandersons I haven't read yet besides his Alcatraz books.. I'll probably try to read them all before this release

[Nirkatze]

I'd be down for a series buddy read!

[Claudia]

Is this confirmed to be released nov 21 now? We could start early December maybe, in case some want to have some time to get a physical copy?

[Narilka]

I picked up my copy today :D Will likely start tomorrow if I'm not passed out from a food coma haha

Interestingly the BN edition has a green/blue background instead of orange.

[Rob]

Couldn't help myself and started last night :)

[Rob]

Silliness (view spoiler)[Kitsen Ninjas! (hide spoiler)]

[Narilka]

I'm 4 chapters in and thinking I may need to pause and go read the novellas. But I also want to keep going. Decisions, decisions!

[Nirkatze]

Yes, you really do need to go read the novellas if you haven't!! They are a books worth of stories in themselves! Or at least--go read cliffnotes... I mean, I could probably give you cliffnotes if you wanted, or you could see what we talked about in the BR for the novellas--but they're definitely worth a read!

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Nirkatze]

This is $5 in the audible sale this week.

[Another Bookgirly]

I just ordered Skyward Flight so that I can read the novellas before Defiant...

[Nirkatze]

Starting! Prologue--(view spoiler)[the whole "you can only see Delvers when you're looking at them and they're looking at you" makes me think of quantum mechanics... like, how you can't measure both mass and velocity at once, or something like that? Because when they're moving... they don't have mass... Also the spren-measuring in book 5 of Stormlight... (hide spoiler)]

Well, that's nice--those who didn't read Skyward Flight--you pretty much get a three-paragraph summary in the end Prologue. As Spensa gets caught up, so do you. Still recommend reading it though!

Chapter 1 (view spoiler)[I wonder if Spensa bonding with Chet-the-Delver is going to be a thing? Like, the other Skyward Flight getting their very own Delver-soul attachments? Spren?

It's... interesting? Sweet? Cute? something. That Doomslug is feeling the same disconnect that Spensa is... both happy to be back but also awkward and wanting to get away... (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Oh cool! on the Taynix Overview page, it actually has the hexadecimal colors for each!

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 2--(view spoiler)[Yay, M-Bot! Glad they didn't make us wait too long. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Rob wrote: "Silliness [spoilers removed]"

Chapter 4! Just got to this! And yessss (view spoiler)[Kitsen ninjas. The universe is a good place. (hide spoiler)]

[Narilka]

Nirkatze wrote: "Starting! Prologue--[spoilers removed]

Well, that's nice--those who didn't read Skyward Flight--you pretty much get a three-paragraph summary in the end Prologue. As Spensa gets caught up, so do y..."

Whew, thanks for confirmation! I really didn't want to stop to go back and read the novellas at this point though plan to do so afterwards :)

Re-prologue (view spoiler)[I noticed that too. There's a bit of quantum physics theory in the book, which I bet was in the whole series and I didn't recognize it at the time. Also a bit of spirituality tossed in.

Also interesting that even though this isn't Cosmere, Sanderson just has a thing with the concept of connections. Which might be more like quantum entanglement now that I think about it. (hide spoiler)]

[Narilka]

Finished Part 1 (view spoiler)[I'm finally feeling hooked by the story again :) This year has been rough on my ability to read consistently. Anyway...

Interesting that Spena is almost having PTSD and definitely heavy guilt. I'm sure she'll pull through it by the end. She really does need to figure out how to block Brade from linking to her whenever. That's a pretty huge security risk.

I'm not sure what to make of MBot as a ghost. I don't think he's really a ghost exactly, though definitely is noncoproreal so technically the description fits. I hope they can find a new... something? Body doesn't feel right lol To inhabit again.

I'm loving all the various slug types and it's so adorable to have a slug holster. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Narilka wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "Starting! Prologue--[spoilers removed]

Well, that's nice--those who didn't read Skyward Flight--you pretty much get a three-paragraph summary in the end Prologue. As Spensa gets c..."

Yeah, I was definitely thinking (view spoiler)[how there are certain concepts which are holding true across his world-building... connections, bonding... (hide spoiler)]

Just finished Part 1 myself, too--(view spoiler)[I also loved the Slug Holster! That was such an old Spensa moment too...

I was thinking about how Chet is a Delver experiencing the people world, and M-Bot is kind of like an ambassador from the people world experiencing life as a Delver... what is it that make both him and Spensa dangerous? Emotions and memory?

I'm not sure what to make of Spensa's repeated convictions that she's a monster or a weapon... Maybe it's that I just finished System Collapse, which also dealt with a character trying to recover from trauma, and that reached me more? But it almost feels like the writing is trying too hard... I'm not quite fitting the pieces of Spensa together.... or rather, it feels like more "telling" and I'm not feeling the "showing."

Brade too... I feel like I should feel that she's a worse person than I do, I should see her like the other power-hungry scary people in the world... but she's just an arrogant teenager, and I rather want Spensa to smack her down... (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Through Chapter 11--(view spoiler)[So, we seem to be getting a lot of these sort of cheap cliffhangers at ends of chapters--kind of like little mini-book cliffhangers. Which I'm thinking might be a Sanderson YA theory of writing--I've seen him talk about how you have to keep the tempo high during YA novels 'cuz kids have shorter attention spans--and the cliffhangers do that. I'm just finding it interesting how like, almost every chapter is ending on a hook like this. Chapter wraps up previous hook, introduces new hook, and next!

Jorgen's mini-date is so cute though! And that Doomslug bailed!

I also find it interesting that "fake it 'til you make it" seems to be working for Spensa... at least in this situation. Like, she'd be okay if she just let herself be okay, and stopped trying to hold back? Not sure if I'm explaining well. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 19--(view spoiler)[I love the "scudding suck"-iness simile trade off between Spensa & Hesho! Seeing how earthy Spensa's replies are, and how poetic Hesho's... and I love that they had this little moment together. I want more friend-moments between the two of them. Actually, I just want more Hesho scenes.

I'm glad Spensa decided to talk to Jorgen.

I'm getting a little more comfortable with Spensa's discomfort... not with her insistence that she is a monster and should be alone, but with her internal journey connecting to how to figure out the Delvers.

I also really like the analysis that all of Spensa's bloodthirsty boasting has really been about preventing conflict and actually an internal pacifism--much like the Defiant was about defying an order to fight.

Kind of thinking that one way for Spensa & Jorgen to compromise is for Spensa to tell Jorgen what she is going to do whether or not he agrees to it, and then let him figure out how to make it work if he can't persuade her, lol. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 20--(view spoiler)[I'm thinking that Brade's trap is less to betray/capture Spensa... not a trap at the duel site, but more a lure to get her away and occupied during an attack on Detritus/Evershore or one of their allies.... (hide spoiler)]

[Narilka]

Nirkatze wrote: "Through Chapter 11--..."

(view spoiler)[I hadn't noticed the mini cliffhangers though I have been very tired lately from needing to do a lot of brain work at work. Butcher does that with Dresden a lot though.

Their date was very sweet. I think Sanderson has gotten better at writing relationships.

I know what you mean. Spensa is freaked out and fighting with herself over the merge with Chet. It's going to be OK. You're in a Sanderson novel ;) She'll figure it out once she can relax. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Starting... Prologue/Chapter 1 theory: stop talking about M-Bot... M-Bot no longer exists... he has evolved... he is now M-Delver, delving for mushrooms across all of time and space (and the multiverse?)

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Narilka wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "Starting! Prologue--[spoilers removed]

Well, that's nice--those who didn't read Skyward Flight--you pretty much get a three-paragraph summary in the end Prologue. As Spensa gets c..."

Someone didn't do their homework...

I definitely followed the plan... I actually read Defending Elysium last night... I might have read it before, but felt the connections more, this time around...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Another Bookgirly wrote: "I just ordered Skyward Flight so that I can read the novellas before Defiant..."

I think it definitely adds alot that feels important, even if there's a one page summary at the start of Defiant...

[Narilka]

Timelord Iain wrote: "Narilka wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "Starting! Prologue--[spoilers removed]

Well, that's nice--those who didn't read Skyward Flight--you pretty much get a three-paragraph summary in the end Prologue. ..."

Homework, schmomework. There's an unwritten rule in fantasy series that novellas/short stories shouldn't have a major impact on the overall story as not everyone reads them. The main story should be able to stand on it's on without them or they'd have been included in the main story. You stated as much when we were reading Dresden :P

I tried starting the first novella twice and set it aside both times without finishing the first chapter. With the ups and downs I've had this year around family health I've learned not to force my reading so I don't turn myself off my reading hobby entirely :\

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

It's understandable... and I tend to note when stories break that rule...

There's a Night Huntress book that did, years ago... one of the October Daye ones feels that way, since it reversed bad events from a previous book, and I talked alot in the Skyward Flight thread about how many crazy important events were happening here, but Sanderson did a decent job summarizing it at the start here...

There's also this trend with epic SF/F authors, to write "novellas/short stories" that would be considered books in any other genre... when your short story is 6hrs instead of 20-60hrs, it's practically a book... most books I read are 9-13hrs long, outside of epics/etc...

We're reading Animorphs next year (granted it's a kids series from 30 years ago), and the audiobooks are 3.5hrs long...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I've been powering through this at a fair clip... haven't paused to say much... at Illustration V already... about 70%?

This has been a very satisfying book... lots of big things going on and satisfying things and surprising things...

Cytonic would have been surprising, if I hadn't spoiled so much in the year or 2 I avoided reading it, but I went into Defiant blind, since it's so new, which is nice...

(view spoiler)[M-Bot's ghostly survival... the mellowing of the Spensa/Chet bond... and the growing understanding of it, through to where I'm at, where she's kinda astral projecting to avoid the Superiority drugs...

Re-bonding with her crew-mates, and incorporating Hecho, and coming up with ideas for crew partnerships...

Rebuilding M-Bot's ship, the surprise abduction, the MEGA-Surprise that Brade/Braid is actually leading the Superiority military, when she kills the a-hole we've been dealing with for the past 2-3 books...

Sanderson is really good at getting the blood flowing in excitement... I dunno how this is going to end, but reviewers seem satisfied, and like Sanderson is on a good streak, between Lost Metal and Defiant, with Stormlight Archive coming up next year... 3 conclusions in 3 years (at least to current story arcs, if not actual series)...

And Gram-Gram... great speech :D ... way to shake up the superiority, with gravitas... (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Chapter 52: (view spoiler)[SPYSLUG!!!... lol... DOOMSLUG is so cute... (hide spoiler)]

This resolution makes perfect sense... I'm always happy with a solution that doesn't leave an open-ended problem for some indeterminate time in the future...

Things aren't over yet, tho...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

OMG... this is awesome... ROFL...

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

And finished... and immediately had to do a google... (view spoiler)[looks like Skyward Legacy is a trilogy of books being written primarily by Janci Patterson, as another collaborative project... first book is 68% done, according to the progress bar on Brandon's website (also, Stormlight 5 is 88% done, so excited)...

I'm sure Brandon will say some stuff about it, in his State of Sanderson post in the coming weeks, on his birthday... (hide spoiler)]

Really happy with how this played out... and (view spoiler)[how horrified the Superiority was, to learn the Taynix now rule the galaxy and control cytonic travel and diplomatic regulations with the delvers :D (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Glad to hear that you're satisfied with the conclusion, Iain!

I'm eye-reading, so going slowly... finished part 2, up to Chapter 29--(view spoiler)[Wasn't expecting Brade to just come in and kidnap Spensa... then turn out to be the actual evil mastermind behind everything.

Also want Spensa to go John Wick on her ass. She killed Comfort. Maybe Winsick pressed the button, but he was just her pawn. She needs to be taken out. (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

Nirkatze wrote: "Glad to hear that you're satisfied with the conclusion, Iain!..."

(view spoiler)[Comfort was ROUGH... but the Brade reveal was kinda epic... completely turned some things on their head, like the idea of Spensa revealing her subterfuge in book 2... so misplaced... to the Nth degree... (hide spoiler)]

Enjoy savoring it... I loved it, all around...

Especially seeing Spensa stop being so hot-headed (that's already been a thing, with her (view spoiler)[NOT running off to duel Brade, earlier (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Timelord Iain wrote: "I've been powering through this at a fair clip... haven't paused to say much... at Illustration V already... about 70%?

This has been a very satisfying book... lots of big things going on and sati..."

Just hit this same spot, end of Chapter 30--(view spoiler)[OMG Gran-Gran's speech was EPIC! I love seeing where Spensa gets her warrior-poet soul from.

I didn't mention before, but I also loved the idea to incorporate Hesho's people as co-pilots--and I love how everyone was like--
"Are you thinking what I'm thinking?"
"Fuzzy Copilots?"
"Fuzzy Copilots!"
I mean, who doesn't want a fuzzy copilot??? Best. Idea. Ever. Only I imagine it would be somewhat detrimental to the honor and dignity of the Kitsen if their copilots are constantly trying to pet them...

I'm really curious to see how I feel next reread when I'll've been through the whole series and can see the seeds of where things are going... like Spensa, I can't help but still feel like there's something missing with Brade... I kinda wish that she'd stun-shot her the first time she escaped, even if Brade was holding a destructor at her--with how much they need Spensa, I can't imagine she would have been as quick to shoot with a deadly weapon if Spensa hadn't hesitated...

And I'm glad that Spensa's people know that she didn't run off... though we haven't gotten to talk to them yet, so we don't know how things were in the direct aftermath of the disappearance. (hide spoiler)]

[Jenna, I'd be free if not for Temper & Edgewalker]

I just started! I'm looking forward to opening all the spoilers :)

[Nirkatze]

Yay Jenna! glad you're joining us!

Through Chapter 38--(view spoiler)[I'm enjoying the different POVs--Mushroom-Bot! LOL. Gran-Gran's especially was a lot of fun--and I was just wondering how someone with no flight experience--and blind--was given a Captaincy... but her knowledge of military history would indeed be useful... and I like how she both recognizes that and recognizes that experience is the key to true strategy and tactics... very curious to see what she & the Kitsen cook up.

And so we also get the answer to how Spensa's disappearance was taken. Folks think she was captured after leaving, instead of kidnapped... but Jorgen at least has faith, or is withholding judgment until he can ask her himself...

Also finding Spensa comparing herself to Brade interesting... though they always seemed very different to me, like the comparisons are primarily superficial... (hide spoiler)]

[Jenna, I'd be free if not for Temper & Edgewalker]

Chapter 2 (view spoiler)[M-BOT! I'm glad we got him back so quickly. (hide spoiler)]

[Rob]

Timelord Iain wrote: "And finished... and immediately had to do a google... looks like Skyward Legacy is a trilogy of books being written primarily by Janci Patterson, as another collaborative project... first book is 6..."

Finished this morning. I Fell asleep last night with like 15 pages to go last night. sigh. I'm about a 3.5 on this. I may have enjoyed some of the Novellas more

Thoughts and such (view spoiler)[Very happy this isn't the end of these characters. Just wondering if they'll time-jump us at all or just dive right into the mission, maybe for a few weeks or something?I'm just glad there will be a reason to return and perhaps do a re-read since all the books are such quick reads.

Boomslug - very underutilized in this book. boo.
It was interesting during the final battle where the slugs were willing to help but didn't want to go and there's a conversation about not "breaking their trust". Forget the exact quote, but had to put it down and talk to one of my kids and say "you wouldn't ave read a character with this level of emotional intelligence 10 or 20 years ago. Writing has changed." And for the better, though all our good guys are very idealistic kiddos too. Though Spensa thankfully grows a lot in this book.

I was waiting for the moment with the whole Delvers choose their bodies for when M-bot would appear and was glad to see Chet become "human". That will be fun for the next series. (hide spoiler)]

Stormlight 5 - already announced for December 7th 2024 at the Dragonsteel event. Yes, its a Saturday. Guess I should start penciling in time for a reread :)