System Collapse (The Murderbot Diaries #7)[November 30, 2023]

[Yanique, Thread Master]

This is a Buddy Read for System Collapse by Martha Wells starting June 6, 2023.

[Mel]

Ahhh~ June 6th. To think that in a different universe we could have already had our Murderbot. *sigh*

♪Every day, it's a gettin' closer♪

I'm glad to see the page length at 256, is a bit longer than the previous novellas. Not so meaty at Network Effect, but somewhere in between. :)

[Nirkatze]

LOL

For a second there you had me panicking, thinking it had been postponed to June 2024.

From that perspective, I am quite relieved to be living in the universe where this is just a bit over two months away...

[Nyssa]

Looking forward to this one.

[Nyssa]

My daughter and I will be starting this tonight after work.

[Narilka]

Awesome. I'll be joining closer to the start date.

[Graeme]

I'll join in later this month after my current reads are complete.

[Nyssa]

My daughter and I finished a few minutes ago. It took us a few tries (three) before we got into the story. The beginning felt awkward.

However, once we connected, we were on a roll. As expected, it was a good read.

[Graeme]

Awesome, Nyssa. Great to hear.

[Nirkatze]

Dittoing Graeme--love getting positive reviews from people whose reading tastes I trust!

[Ann-Marie]

I started this today, through chapter 4 and (view spoiler)[WTH is up with the REDACTED? This picks up pretty much where the last left off but clearly something happened with the REDACTED! I am glad that we still have the snarky banter between MB and Art, that is so much fun! Glad that Mensah is there and I think most of the OG team? I am sure all will be explained but I will have to finish tomorrow, may get another chapter in but not much more than that. (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Finished today (view spoiler)[THAT ENDING! Hate cliffhangers and while I am not mad that we will get more MB and Art there better be regular trips to Preservation or even a few of the OG crew tagging along with them. MB has PTSD (the REDACTED) and is still dealing with the evil Barish-Estranza Corporation while continuing to discover more humanity/emotions. While there was so much snarky banter the book addressed evil corporations, greed, slavery & trauma and there was a good balance. And the best of all was MB, Art & all using media footage to create a program to try to convince the colonists that Barish-Estranza had bad intentions. I enjoyed it quite a lot. (hide spoiler)]

Favorite quote: (view spoiler)[
He turned to me. “It was a sexual discussion.”
ART said in our private feed, I told you that you didn’t want to know.
Oh, for fuck’s sake. I had an expression (I couldn’t help it) and involuntarily retreated two meters back down the corridor. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Starting a bit early! Chapter 1--(view spoiler)[I love ART's my-guns-are-bigger-than-yours exchange with the B-E ship.

I get the feeling this is picking up very closely after the end of Network Effect. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 2--I think I see why Wells went backwards to write Fugitive Telemetry before moving forward again with this book... (view spoiler)[Fugitive Telemetry was all about a group of people fleeing corporate slavery--I don't remember if they were trying to escape B-E in particular though. But right now it seems like the colonists are facing the same situation... and we have that background now.

Also really excited to actually have MB interacting with another freed SecUnit! We got so little last book!

The [redacted] stuff seems to happen mostly when MB needs to have an emotion, I think...

I like to think that when MB forwarded feed of the conversation about the "other" colony to Mensah, it edited in visuals of the others' reactions, like Seth banging his head against the table and Iris tearing her hair out. (hide spoiler)]

[Christopher]

I’m about 30% into this.

Quick question for anyone who’s finished the book:

Am I supposed to know what the redacted parts are referring to from previous books? Or will that reveal itself later? I’m trying to ascertain whether I need to be putting the pieces together now or if I should just go with it.

[Ann-Marie]

Christopher wrote: "I’m about 30% into this.

Quick question for anyone who’s finished the book:

Am I supposed to know what the redacted parts are referring to from previous books? Or will that reveal itself later? ..."

The REDACTED is unique to this book and it is explained, I would STILL be ranting if it wasn't lol

[Christopher]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Christopher wrote: "I’m about 30% into this.

Quick question for anyone who’s finished the book:

Am I supposed to know what the redacted parts are referring to from previous books? Or will that r..."

Alright. I'll keep pushing ahead lol. Thanks for the response.

[Christopher]

I'm through the first 5 chapters.

(view spoiler)[ Towards the end of chapter 5 we get an explanation for the redacted parts of the story.

MB is struggling for an explanation for this "made up memory" which has led to a major drop in it's performance reliability and at least one full on, forced shutdown. At least these are the effects from a robotics standpoint. However, being a construct, I think the more profound development is the negative effect on MB's "feelings" of self-confidence. A quick review of all of the instances where there have been redacted parts all indicate a loss or significant decrease in MB's certainty in it's own decision-making or functional abilities.

It's far too soon to know for sure, but my guess is that the "made up memory" is the first sign that MB is experiencing some form of dreams - further indication of it's development as a sentient being. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 3--(view spoiler)[MB actually said in its thoughts: "...humans I give a shit about." That's like, one step from admitting it cares!

Actually finding the [redacted] bits interesting, trying to guess what they are... still guessing they're related to how MB feels, redacting private emotions... maybe its internal feed was handed over to the media for that documentary they wanted to do? Or Mensah turned tables and made MB go to counseling too? And MB redacted all the stuff it thinks of as "personal none of your f-ing business"... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 4--(view spoiler)[Really getting the sense that the redacted has to do with MB's trauma from having its copies die, or dealing with the contaminated alien remnants, or maybe even from being contaminated itself...

Ratthi says "SecUnits don't stop being SecUnits until they die." That... made me think. Especially after all the effort Pin-Lee & Mensah especially spent in earlier books, trying to convince MB that it could be anything it wanted, or rather, do anything it wanted... is Ratthi saying that SecUnits are their own species, like you don't stop being human until you're a corpse? Of is it making a comment about how MB won't be able to stop putting itself between humans and harm, even if it knows it will mean its own destruction? Related to [redacted]? (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I don’t know what you guys are REDACTED. REDACTED is the best part of the REDACTED.

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 5--I like your theory, Christopher--(view spoiler)[about the "made-up memories" being a step towards dreaming...

I was thinking how MB's memory loss and "flashbacks" are reminiscent of PTSD and trauma--along with its dropping levels of confidence, and constant anxiety about being able to do its job. And like Ratthi said--you only stop being a SecUnit when you're dead. If MB can't do its job--fulfill it's purpose--then what is left for it? I'm sure the Preservation team would be happy to let it retire and watch media all day, but MB has already shown that it is not happy with that.

It feels like a really subtle, and really true, exploration of the psyche after serious trauma. And I mean... MB had to split itself into multiple copies, KILL one of its copies, and then had to battle being taken over by alien contamination, all when it thought it was immune due to being a construct, which actually just made it twice susceptible. That's a lot of trauma. Maybe the false memories and mental shut downs are the organic part of its brain trying to deal with that, or trying to force MB to process and deal with it... (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

After a certain point in the story, either the redactions fade of, or I stopped noticing...

I like how things are playing out near the end, with the (view spoiler)[documentary they're developing... seems the perfect use of SecUnit / Murderbot's hobbies... (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

I think that the redacted parts are easier to handle in eye-book... it lets me stop and think about what they might be, right as I see them, instead of a "wait, what?" and then by the time my brain catches up we're in the next chapter already...

Chapter 6--(view spoiler)[I love that the AdaCol2 bot and MB connect over media, and that AC2 shares its media collection with MB! Awww, it's making friends!!

Also thinking of how this "Pre-Corporation Rim" time is probably something like first human spacefarers era... especially with the descriptions of cement & metal building in the underground enclave...

Okay, MB's flashback to the conversation with ART about it being broken--and the problem being with it's organic parts, or as ART put it "the part of you that is human"--and MB shutting that train of thought down.

The aside about MB telling Mensah "I don't know what is wrong with me." to which Mensah replied "I think you might know, you just don't want to talk about it."

If I think about it, so far, most of the emotions MB has had to deal with on its journey have been positive or healing... learning that there are people out there who also treat it as a person. Even when it revisited the massacre site, it was... cathartic maybe, to find that it was not imagining things, and to be able to set that part of it to rest...

The closest comparison I can find to what is happening to it right now is when Miki the pet-bot sacrificed itself for MB... and it had to deal with lots of emotions--and mostly blocked them off and didn't face them.

And now it's having to face all of these negative emotions, and actually deal with trauma, and it doesn't want to be human, or part human, and have to deal with this shit, so it ignores it, and so the organic part shut it down, because you can't bottle that shit up and just make it go away by ignoring it. (hide spoiler)]

[Graeme]

Graeme wrote: "I'll join in later this month after my current reads are complete."

Yeah .... about this .... I'm gonna backburner my reading to focus on other topics in my life.

I'm sure you'll enjoy the read, and I hope to get to this TBR'ed book sooner or later.

Cheers G

[Nirkatze]

Enjoy your other topics Graeme! I hope you enjoy this book too, when you get around to it.

[Graeme]

Thanks, Nirkatze.

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 7--(view spoiler)[The conversation with the B-E representative is really interesting... I'm realizing that BOTH the B-E folks AND University folks must appear pretty similar to the local colonists... both of them are trying to convince the locals to evacuate for their safety, to a "viable location" that they really have ZERO way of confirming before-hand...

MB's solution... using its a story to try to change how people think... very Meta, and also very MB. It's interesting that Bharadwaj thinks MB used Sanctuary Moon to essentially rewrite the organic parts of its brain. So. What statement is Wells trying to make with MB's story? (hide spoiler)]

[Tonari no Emily]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Finished today [spoilers removed]

Favorite quote:
.."

Ann-Marie the media scene was my favorite as well. And I LOLed at that quote :D

[Tonari no Emily]

My favorite part about these books are the "relationships" (ew) MB has with the humans and non-humans.. I'm pretty bad at paying attention to other things in these lol

[Christopher]

Nirkatze wrote: "I think that the redacted parts are easier to handle in eye-book... it lets me stop and think about what they might be, right as I see them, instead of a "wait, what?" and then by the time my brain..."

Nirkatze, I think your assessment is right on the money here. (view spoiler)[ MB is being forced to deal with the human parts of itself that it has always tried to avoid tapping into (emotions, feelings, etc.). So maybe that human/organic part of MB is not working properly and thus MB, as a construct, can't work properly as a whole. (hide spoiler)]

[Christopher]

Graeme wrote: "Graeme wrote: "I'll join in later this month after my current reads are complete."

Yeah .... about this .... I'm gonna backburner my reading to focus on other topics in my life.

I'm sure you'll e..."

Graeme, I appreciated how you used MB's lingo there, putting it on the "backburner." Enjoy whatever else you're reading!

[Christopher]

Timelord Iain wrote: "After a certain point in the story, either the redactions fade of, or I stopped noticing...

I like how things are playing out near the end, with the [spoilers removed]"

Timelord, the redactions definitely stop after ch 5 when MB finally gives an explanation of it. Great point on (view spoiler)[ how they put MB's media skills to use. (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Chapter 8--regarding MB's redacted issues--(view spoiler)[I find it interesting how it is its human part--the part that lets it feel and understand dramas, even--that is giving it the plan to connect to the colonists... I hope that this will also be a way for it to heal from the redacted trauma...

You can’t slam down a comm, but Iris pulled the comm interface off her ear and made an aborted gesture like she wanted to throw it against a wall. (Been there, threw my whole body against a wall once.)
LOL Because of course, MB's whole body is a com, so that's the only way to do so for it.

Also, there was a throwaway line in here that answered some history questions--what exactly saved the Preservation colonists?

The humans who lived in the Preservation system now originally came from an abandoned colony, and would have all starved to death except for an almost decommissioned colony transport with a crew who had decided to rescue everybody or die trying.

So... from the way this is worded: "a colony transport with a crew"--could be interpreted as the transport as the topic, the transport that made the decision, and the crew supported it... I had the theory that Preservation was saved by an AI/Bot transport, like ART-ish, and maybe that's part of why it is so adamant on bot-rights and person-ship... it *could* be... The "Who" could refer to the transport or the crew, or both, really. English is ambiguous like that.... (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 9 (view spoiler)[Whoo, action! Though--a lot of it was just inside MB's hacking. I have to wonder how all the internal action would be represented for a visual adaptation--the biggest example I think of is when ART first hovers over MB's imaginative shoulder while watching media... (hide spoiler)]

[Christopher]

Nirkatze wrote: "Chapter 8--regarding MB's redacted issues--I find it interesting how it is its human part--the part that lets it feel and understand dramas, even--that is giving it the plan to connect to the colon..."

Whoa, that was great pick-up! (view spoiler)[ Regarding Preservation possibly being saved by a transport like ART? I must have read this part too quickly but I definitely see what you mean about the way it's written. Amazing! (hide spoiler)]

[Ann-Marie]

Tonari no Emily wrote: "My favorite part about these books are the "relationships" (ew) MB has with the humans and non-humans.. I'm pretty bad at paying attention to other things in these lol"

Exactly, I am here for the MB/ART interactions and the grudging hugs! And the action lol

[Nirkatze]

Christopher wrote: "Whoa, that was great pick-up!..."

re: Preservation--I'd coined this theory back in book 4, so I've been keeping an eye out for clues... ^^

[Nirkatze]

Finished! This really feels like the second half of Network Effect... and again, I can see why Wells went backwards to write Fugitive Telemetry with the emphasis on indentured servitude. I like how the question of trauma wasn't faced dead on... (view spoiler)[it felt realistic that way--a lot of people with trauma take a while to recognize that they have it... and it can take a lot of time and courage to get to the point where you're willing to work on it. The end might have been a little on-the-nose, but I also think the whole thing was subtle enough that it needed that for people who didn't pick up on the signals, maybe.

And it makes sense that it wouldn't be solved here either--trauma isn't really "solved"--it's something people have to work on, that lives with them... and you learn to live with it. I like the idea of a trauma center for liberated SecUnits... And I hope--just like I hope we hear more about that ComfortUnit from the first arc--that we find out what happened to that B-E SecUnit that didn't come with them...

Oh, and ART's rivalry/not rivalry with Holism is pretty hilarious. Seems like it'll get along with Three though.

Set up for the next arc here! Onward with ART! LOL Ann-Marie, I saw it less as cliffhanger and more as set-up... but it also is sort of where we thought we were at the end of the last book, isn't it? (hide spoiler)]

[Timelord Iain, Tech Support]

I don't quite feel the same, but similar... I feel like there's novellas 1-4, 6 was a bridge, 5+7+ feels like the beginning of a new 3-4 novella arc, where the first one was longer for all the setup...

[Ann-Marie]

Nirkatze wrote: "Finished! This really feels like the second half of Network Effect... and again, I can see why Wells went backwards to write Fugitive Telemetry with the emphasis on indentured servitude. I like how..."

Well this is the first book in the series I will have to wait to read, which kind of sucks! Also if it were up to me (view spoiler)[MB would park it on Preservation watching media and protecting Mensah, her family and the OG team and ART can stop by to visit occasionally for some snarky banter, maybe they all could go on expeditions together to get some action scenes....Yup, that sounds good to me!!! lol (hide spoiler)]

[Nirkatze]

Bummer about having to wait, Ann-Marie. Definitely echoing folks general recommendation to do a serious Network Effect refresh before jumping in, if you get the chance.

[Ann-Marie]

Nirkatze wrote: "Bummer about having to wait, Ann-Marie. Definitely echoing folks general recommendation to do a serious Network Effect refresh before jumping in, if you get the chance."

Ugh I fail at posting! This will be the first time I have to wait for the next in the series, I was spoiled reading through to this one so far.

[Christopher]

Nirkatze wrote: "Christopher wrote: "Whoa, that was great pick-up!..."

re: Preservation--I'd coined this theory back in book 4, so I've been keeping an eye out for clues... ^^"

Ahh ok - I haven't been part of the prior buddy reads bc I was playing catch up until this one.

[Nirkatze]

@Ann-Marie! Ah, I get it, my misunderstanding. Yeah, it's a bummer having to wait. And like, if I'd bothered to pay attention more I would've remembered that I'd been reading your comments on the book, lol.

@Christopher--oh, I was just trying to be humble, like "I'm not that cool, there were thoughts in other books! I'm just stealing!"

[Christopher]

Ann-Marie wrote: "Nirkatze wrote: "Finished! This really feels like the second half of Network Effect... and again, I can see why Wells went backwards to write Fugitive Telemetry with the emphasis on indentured serv..."

Ann-Marie, I agree with you - I'm partial to Mensah and the Preservation group. But with Preservation being such a safe/ boring place (other than when GrayCris was after Mensah AND other than the murder of the trafficker in Fugitive Telemetry - I'm not making it sound so boring but stay with me here lol), then we wouldn't be graced with such cool adventures.

[Nirkatze]

Y'all both have good points... if it were me, I'd say no to the adventures and stay home watching media or reading too... but I'd want to read about MB having adventures with ART & coming into contact again with all the other folk we've met along the way...

[Tonari no Emily]

I think MB would want to just watch its media, but would be obligated to tag along on all the crazy human trips because they want to do something :D

[Nirkatze]

LOL Even as MB denies to itself that it wants to do something, and *sighs* internally at the horrible stupidity of humans and how they would all be killed if MB weren't around to protect them, but be inwardly happy because these humans both needed caring for and also *private emotion moment* cared back....

[Tonari no Emily]

Nirkatze wrote: "LOL Even as MB denies to itself that it wants to do something, and *sighs* internally at the horrible stupidity of humans and how they would all be killed if MB weren't around to protect them, but ..."

Hehe exactly!!

[Felina]

I just finished this. I enjoyed it and did struggle a little at the beginning like someone else mentioned. But it pick up pretty quickly.

[Mel]

Hey! I'm late but excited to be starting at last.

Chapter 1 first thoughts
(view spoiler)[

"I want one of you to punch me in the face."

Who is Murderbot narrating to? After the ReadMe file in Network Effect being for Three, I'm curious as to the audience.

Okay the redacted bits. Are they redacted voluntarily or involuntarily from the narrative? Kind of like "the company" being filtered out. It looks to be related to Murderbot's mental health/feelings/trauma.

"At least it was making me nervous for a survival-based reason instead of... redacted."
"I wasn't supposed to come down to the planet again. Me, ART, Mensah, Seth, and Martyn had all made that decision, because of redacted."

Plus the others are acting concerned.

"ART said, I need your status, not the mission status."
"On the feed, Ratthi said, SecUnit, how are you doing?"

Okay I'm like 2 pages in. Chill out Mel.
(NOit'sMurderbotandIshallhaveZEROchill!!)
But yeah, my instinct says that in Network Effect (view spoiler)[Murderbot was traumatized by the mission, having to kill Murderbot 2.0. Oh, and like getting captured and strung up down a mine shaft wasn't great either. And gods, getting infected and facing the possibility of having a "governor module" again? I'd hate that planet too. (hide spoiler)]

"I know we said you wouldn't have to go back..."
I didn't have time for this. I told him, "It's fine."
So I'm here now and it's fine, everyone shut up about it, okay.

Yeah.
Yeah, that seems to be about the gist of it. (hide spoiler)]

Nirkatze, I agree this is picking up surprisingly soon after Network Effect. Honestly, I had expected to leave this planet behind entirely, and that Murderbot's next adventure would be aboard ART, venturing into some Star Trek-ish final frontier mission of anti-corporate badassery. Whelp, I guess it's one of those, "No time like the present," sort of situations. *cracks knuckles* Might as well start with the corporates we got right here. *cracks neck* They seem so eager to jump the queue, after all. *grin*

[Nirkatze]

@Felina--grats on yet another finish! Tearing through books this week!

@Mel--Yeah--I think the next book will be the book we've been expecting for three books, with new adventures and horizons... you're also getting the same instincts from the [redacted] parts that I was...