Crime and Punishment - Week 9 (Part 6, Chapters 5 -8)

[Gem , Moderator]

Week 9 - Part 6, Chapters 5 - 8

One more week to go! I can't believe we're almost done. I'm sad, I was enjoying this book. Next week we will look at the short Epilogue and discussion the book as a whole. I'll probably post that discussion a few days early since next weekend is Christmas.

1) When Dunya accuses Svidrigailov of jeering by saying that her brother "may
become a great man yet," is she right? Why was this statement important, if it in fact was?

2) Dunya pulling a gun on Svidrigailov surprised me. Did you see something like this coming? What do you think would have happened if she actually shot him? Or God forbid she killed him? Did you think this took courage? Or was she just at her wit's end and acting without thinking?

3) Do you see Svidrigailov's suffering in Chapter 6 was similar to Raskolnikov's throughout the novel? If so, what are those similarities? Do you see any differences?

4) What about Svidrigailov's dream? How did the dream make you feel? (I'm feeling rather like a psychologist with that question... but I had a visceral reaction to it.) What feelings toward his crimes are revealed by his dreams?

5) What does Svidrigailov's reference to America symbolize?

6) What did you think about Svidrigailov's suicide? What do you think drove him to take his life? Were there any alternatives for him? Was there a different "end" that might have been more satisfying as a reader?

7) Why does Raskolnikov bow down and kiss the ground before entering the police station? Did you expect him to confess? Or did you expect him to keep his mouth shut? Could he have gotten away with it? Was confessing redemptive for him?

[Hedi]

1) I am not sure about that.
Considering that the punishment might be 20 years in Siberia (I thought I had read that somewhere, but I cannot find this now), it is possible for him to still become great. He would be a middle-aged man when being released. However, the conditions in Siberia did probably not often allow for a survival of the punishment.
I think Dounia also wants to distinguish between Svidrigailov and her brother. Both murderers, but the one could be saved by atonement and still be something vs. the other who is beyond rescue as he is a scoundrel through and through.

2) In a first step I think she acted out of self-defense. And I wonder whether she deliberately shot past him, with him being hurt slightly in order to get his attention. According to his own statement she might have been a very good shooter and had learned that from him.
In a way she still becomes his savior. She does not kill him here, but I think this scene makes him realize that this is the end for him and has an impact on his decision to commit suicide.

3) He seems to turn insane in a way as well, but it feels different to me. He is giving away his money, as Raskolnikov was giving away his money, He has a nightmare as Raskolnikov had before. However, his condition seems more rational than Raskolnikov's.
Does that make any sense? It would almost be interesting to have a real psychologist in this discussion. ;-)

4) I had maybe 2 reactions. I shuddered about the mouse. Might this one symbolize anything like e.g. the conditions in prison/ Siberia?
Then there was another child he takes care of and who seems to seduce him - he has something with young girls / children - creepy again. Might he blame them (among others Dounia) for his downfall?
But I must admit that I have not thought a lot about this. I read through it quickly as there was so much going on in each chapter.

5) Does it mean freedom for him? He will free himself from all the bad he has done by his suicide. He is leaving life as if he was leaving the country to go to a "better" place (though he might expect to end up in hell).

6) As I mentioned above I think the dispute with Dounia and his nightmares/ his dead wife's appearances drove him to that.
As a murderer he said himself that you have only 2 options:
"a bullet in the brain or Siberia".
However, I do not know how the evidence was in his case.

I do not think he would have been up for Siberia. So he chose the bullet.

7) Sonia had told him that that would be the way of redemption:

“Go at once, this very minute, stand at the cross-roads, bow down, first kiss the earth which you have defiled and then bow down to all the world and say to all men aloud, ‘I am a murderer!’ Then God will send you life again. "

I think for his own sake it was better for him to confess.
He gets to know that Svidrigailov is dead. I do not know whether he still considered him a threat (e.g. via a written message that might be left behind). So he has a chance to "gamble" and see whether Porfiry actually has enough evidence against him.
But knowing that Sonia is with him all the way helps him to make a more sane decision I guess.
I am not sure yet whether confessing was redemptive after all, but I see that the love of Sonia and his mother and Dounia help him. I wonder how his illness will progress, especially in the Siberian conditions.


Gem, time has really passed quickly since we started this novel. I will probably read the remaining chapters today or tomorrow, as I am curious about the end.
Has anyone seen any TV or movie adaptations of the book?

[Hedi]

I forgot to mention one thing that was striking to me:
Raskolnikov still does not feel real remorse for what he did. He is not mad at him for having done this, but hates himself that he has failed in implementing his theory. So he still believes that he was right to do this.

He calls it “simply clumsiness” in his conversation with Dounia.

[Michi]

Hello there, I have just finished this book and found your discussion group. How wonderful!
I just have a few things to get off my chest if you don't mind. Here it goes: I see Svidrigailov as more or less a cautionary character for Raskolnikov. I think he sees a part of himself in Svidrigailov and that's why he was so repelled and disgusted by him. Like Svidrigailov, Raskolnikov also thought about suicide, but he was not able to commit it due to the lack of courage. One can also argue that it is because of his courage (credited to Sonya), to face suffering and choose to redeem himself. Perhaps deep down, he finds the courage to be better than Svidrigailov, whom repulses him so much, and choose to not kill himself and face the consequences instead. Although, I have to say, I don't have much confidence in Raskolnikov changing for the better. I feel that he still have some of that Ubermensche attituded about him.