SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion
Members' Chat
>
Why do we see the current flood of YA scifi and fantasy?
date
newest »
newest »
MrsJoseph wrote: "colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "But if it's a nerd-argument over semantics, then that's more just nerds being nerds. ;) "Hey! This stuff is important. Otherwise someone could be wrong on the internet!"
Hey, man, I'm not saying it's not important. I am totally including myself in my statement, for I have been known to have teh nerd-rage. ;)
colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "If it's the sort of argument that's like, "My clearly sci-fi book is not actually sci-fi because it's too literary", then yes."The problem is with authors who refuse to admit they are slumming. That attitude that SF and fantasy are the ghetto seeps out of many such denials.
Chris wrote: "Says the man who has actually managed to successfully* combine YA with grimdark. Hehe...Grimdark YA? Now that's an interesting concept!
I haven't read Abercrombies YA novels yet, but I feel that if anyone can pull it off, it's him.
That said though...
Can there actually be such a thing as grimdark YA?
It seems to me that as soon as the novel/film/music album is sufficiently dark/filthy/scary to warrant the grimdark label, it's no longer applicable for the YA label.
I'd say the two are mutually exclusive, but I've been known to be wrong before ;-)
On a related note:The other day I started watching American Horror Story season 3, and in view of our earlier heated debate I tried to analyze it and make up my mind about whether I'd classify it as YA or not.
Pro YA:
It's about teen/early twenties characters.
There's a lot of teen love/angst.
It's about a Hogwarts-esque school for young women.
Everyone is either good looking, or a classic example of the "I am a good person even though I'm fat or have Down's syndrome" character.
Con YA:
Swearing.
A lot of sex, often with disturbing subtexts.
Some rather disturbing personal relationships, including incest.
Lots of gore.
Racism.
References to devil worship (which can be upsetting if you're sensitive to the religious side of things).
I've only seen three episodes so far, and it feels like it could swing either way.
Has anyone else seen it? Would you classify it as YA or not?
Mary wrote: "colleen the contrarian ± (... never stop fighting) ± wrote: "If it's the sort of argument that's like, "My clearly sci-fi book is not actually sci-fi because it's too literary", then yes."The problem is with authors who refuse to admit they are slumming. That attitude that SF and fantasy are the ghetto seeps out of many such denials."
If you're trying to say that the problem is with the assumption that genre fiction is less worthy of being written, then we agree, though from your first sentence, it sounds as though you're saying authors should just be OK with acknowledging that they are writing books that are beneath themselves.
I think authors should write the stories that they have to tell, and make them the best stories possible. Categorizations and marketing should come later... if at all. Though I'm not one for categorization, so maybe that's idealistic. *shrug*
Johan wrote: "On a related note:The other day I started watching American Horror Story season 3, and in view of our earlier heated debate I tried to analyze it and make up my mind about whether I'd classify it ..."
Sorry, I don't watch enough TV to help.
From what you listed, in America the sex would normally take it far away from YA. Possibly the devil worship, too.
The rest would be fine for YA (in America).
But I can't be sure because I've not watched the show nor heard of it before. Atmosphere would also make a huge difference.
Oh, I don't know that Abercrombie's blending is such a new concept. He does a good job of it, but look at all the established YA out there and you can find lots of grimdarkish elements. They exist in middle grade stuff too. For that matter, nursery rhymes. It's scary that we sooth our young to sleep by singing to them about a baby falling out of a tree to its painful death.
Johan wrote: "On a related note:The other day I started watching American Horror Story season 3, and in view of our earlier heated debate I tried to analyze it and make up my mind about whether I'd classify it ..."
This is normally where new adult comes in, it's kind of the catch all for edgier YA that is targeting a slightly older audience.
Aaron wrote: "This is normally where new adult comes in, it's kind of the catch all for edgier YA that is targeting a slightly older audience. "That sounds about right for American Horror Story, and with a classification like that they can't go wrong :-)
The kids will watch it because it's scary and because their parents won't want them to see it, and the adults will watch it because they think it's young and hip and a little scary-scary. Perfect!
That's the audience I'm going to write for next time! I will be so rich and famous :-)
Chris wrote: "Oh, I don't know that Abercrombie's blending is such a new concept. He does a good job of it, but look at all the established YA out there and you can find lots of grimdarkish elements. They exist ..."So true, Chris.
Deerskin deals with rape/incest.
The Darkangel - "vampire" which marries women and then eats their souls IIRC. Plus the destruction of almost an entire planet out of jealously. There's a scene where a woman cuts out her own heart to give to someone else - expecting/accepting her own death.
Magic's Pawn - This series is & is not YA - but it was far ahead of its time. The MC is gay and has to deal with that stigma with his family. There's also suicide, murder and rape in the series.
I haven't read The Darkangel, but Deerskin and Magic's Pawn have been some of my favorite books. They aren't for everybody, of any age, because of the subject matter. But for some older teens and adults, Deerskin will resonate with how the MC deals with the repercussions of her rape.* It's about healing. The MC in Magic's Pawn has to learn to love himself.As I understand it, these NA books are very much like YA books, but with slightly older -- nearly always female-- characters, who are still involved in insta- love, often with two different guys, there may or may not be a paranormal element, but the MCs have bills to pay, clothes to wash and adult responsibilities.
*I haven't looked lately, but Deerskin here has either 5 star ratings or 1 star ratings, people don't just like this book, they either love it or hate it.
Julia wrote: "As I understand it, these NA books are very much like YA books, but with slightly older -- nearly always female-- characters, who are still involved in insta- love, often with two different guys, there may or may not be a paranormal element, but the MCs have bills to pay, clothes to wash and adult responsibilities."Yep, that's it in the nutshell. Most NA today are Romances with issues. Harking back to the days when bodice rippers were popular.
SciFi and Fantasy Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Deerskin (other topics)The Darkangel (other topics)
Magic's Pawn (other topics)
Deerskin (other topics)
Magic's Pawn (other topics)
More...
Hey! This stuff is important. Otherwise someone could be wrong on the internet!