What are we reading? 5 December 2022

[AB76]

Gpfr wrote: "MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: have you tried Fear is the rider by kenneth cook, its one of his last novels and its a rollercoaster of tension and dread, in the hot, open outback...its less a mystery and m..."

its realistic horror but quite unpleasent, so yes maybe one to avoid. basically a madman stalking to kill...in a very fast car

[Storm]

Thanks AB for the info. Very interesting. Do you think these TV evangelists have something to do with it? It is the display of faith that strikes me particularly. I have friends and acquaintances who go to church but none of them talk about it. Plus, we would never argue about it. It is their business and as long as they don’t bother me with it, that’s fine. But I get the impression that someone’s belief is much more in your face, generally speaking, in the US. My boss and her husband visited his colleague in his home and the family said grace. This is a display not shown much here anymore and when they returned the dinner in this country, my friends pointedly did not say or allow time for grace.

Tam. Good shout on kirsch. It would be more reasonably priced than the wine I was wondering about . I have never tried Tokay but that would have been a drink found in the Austro-Hungarian empire of the time. Anyone tried it and know what it tastes like?
When I was in Prague, which has that similar Central European cafe culture, we were given, without ordering separately, a small glass of sweet wine with afternoon coffee. It felt deliciously « foreign »! Tokay was traditionally made in Hungary and Slovakia. Maybe Santa might bring me some…..

[AB76]

Storm wrote: "Thanks AB for the info. Very interesting. Do you think these TV evangelists have something to do with it? It is the display of faith that strikes me particularly. I have friends and acquaintances w..."

i think the "in your face" element is growing, maybe as part of the culture wars, defining somebodys place in the USA, by faith. I certainly can see a similar thing with Bolsanaro and his protestant followers in Brazil....its a badge of honour, visual displays against the "other"

[MK]

AB76 wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: have you tried Fear is the rider by kenneth cook, its one of his last novels and its a rollercoaster of tension and dread, in the hot, open outback...its less a ..."

Is there a difference between realistic and, I suppose. unrealistic horror?

Among my reading rules are to read nothing that will keep me up at night. For instance, the only Stephen King I've ever read is his which I still have on the shelf. Excellent book, but then even though I live far away now, I was once, a Downeaster.

[MK]

AB76 wrote: "Storm wrote: "A recent survey suggests that less than 50% of people see themselves as having a Christian identity, a third of churchgoers are over 70, and over a third who ticked the Christian box ..."

Your piece made me think of the Seattle Pacific University which is about a mile from my home. It was founded just two years after Washington became a state (1889) and is affiliated with the Free Methodists - who should delete Free from their title. Right now the University is being sued by the State Attorney General for discrimination in hiring, and there is a class action suit (with both students, faculty, and staff as class members) against the University - really against the President and the Board. It seems only the President and Board have stuck their heels in the ground - being against same-sex marriage and extremely anti-LGBTQ.

All this in Seattle where we are so blue politically that we should be color-coded Navy Blue. As far as I am concerned. they should just 'get with the program'. So what if the school loses its Free Methodist affliilation.

[Bill]

Storm wrote: "The other thing that bugs me is why it is the hardline Old Testament Bible thumpers that seem to have won over the more compassionate understanding New Testament vibe?"

The 10th anniversary of the Sandy Hook School mass-murder shooting serves as a reminder that a large number of Americans, most of them nominally Christian, actually worship a kind of American Moloch that regularly demands child sacrifices.

[AB76]

MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Storm wrote: "A recent survey suggests that less than 50% of people see themselves as having a Christian identity, a third of churchgoers are over 70, and over a third who ticked the C..."

very different to english methodists! they prefer a nice cake and a cup of tea...

[AB76]

MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Gpfr wrote: "MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: have you tried Fear is the rider by kenneth cook, its one of his last novels and its a rollercoaster of tension and dread, in the hot, open outback...."

i guess realistic horror is when its all human agency, unrealistic when its ghouls and monsters. i dont mean realism as a criticism, more just a description of the horror element and i guess the horror i describe is more like when you see somehting done by man not beast

[AB76]

To Have and Have Not by Ernest Hemmingway (1937) has opened in Havana, 1930s Cuba and a Marlin fishing captain taking out a paying client

Its refreshing to be back in the Hemmingway style, the novel moves quickly to action and dialogue, limited scene setting, though the world of fishing is given a good lively part in the drama.

[giveusaclue]

Hey AB, have you got snow in the Shires?

Here is S. Derbyshire I went into Dunelm, shopped, got a coffe and a mince pie and came out. I missed the snowfall!

[Bill]

Storm wrote: "My boss and her husband visited his colleague in his home and the family said grace. This is a display not shown much here anymore and when they returned the dinner in this country, my friends pointedly did not say or allow time for grace."

Perhaps at the return dinner your boss should have honored her guests’ faith by preceding the meal with a Bible reading. I would suggest the sixth chapter of Matthew:

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

[giveusaclue]

Bill wrote: "Storm wrote: "My boss and her husband visited his colleague in his home and the family said grace. This is a display not shown much here anymore and when they returned the dinner in this country, m..."

That would have gone down well!

[scarletnoir]

MK wrote: "https://www.theguardian.com/books/pic...

To go with all those end-of-year best books lists. Why is it that I've never heard of most of them?"

A good question - I feel the same.

Taking up LLJ's point about choosing a book by its cover - I have on rare occasions done just that.

This book by Antonio Tabucci existed with different covers, but I was determined to get this one (secondhand paperback) as it 'spoke to me' (!)

[MK]

giveusaclue wrote: "Hey AB, have you got snow in the Shires?

Here is S. Derbyshire I went into Dunelm, shopped, got a coffe and a mince pie and came out. I missed the snowfall!"

I was just looking at the front page of the NY Times and am happy to say that your weather was there. London looks odd with a smattering of snow on the streets. And the weatherman says this chill will be around for a few days.

[MK]

Bill wrote: "Storm wrote: "The other thing that bugs me is why it is the hardline Old Testament Bible thumpers that seem to have won over the more compassionate understanding New Testament vibe?"

The 10th anni..."

One can hope that the Dominion lawsuit might bring Fox to its knees. The law does grind awfully slowly though.

[MK]

The mind picture irony. (clipped from a photo)

Traffic drives in the circle at the monument of confederate General A.P. Hill, which contains his remains, is in the middle of a traffic circle on Arthur Ashe Blvd.

[scarletnoir]

Bill wrote: "Well, I tried to read Marilynne Robinson’s piece in the Dec 22 NYRB, but I finally had to give up and skim over the final third or so. She seems to be eager to show that modern physics is fully com..."

I'm a physicist, and have often been puzzled by the way in which certain religious people try to seek some sort of spurious legitimacy for their beliefs by 'proving' that those are not incompatible with science.

It's pretty obvious to me that 'faith', by definition, is irrational so there is no point whatsoever in trying to 'justify' it. You either believe or you don't. There was a quote from a famous scientist I used with my students - I have mislaid the quote and forgotten the name, but essentially our academic stated that he was a scientist when 'doing physics' and just a person when 'being a Hindu' (I think that was the religion mentioned)... so, keeping both aspects separate. This seems fair enough to me. (The original is expressed far better than that.)

I don't even mind 'people being convinced they are right about religion' - I have no faith, and am convinced I'm right about that! The problem arises when those with (or, I suppose, without) faith attempt to use their beliefs as a means of controlling others, either by introducing religiously based laws or simply by fear. (The current behaviour of the authorities in Iran exemplifies both aspects.) If the 'convinced' would simply live and let live, without interfering with others' freedoms to make up their own minds, there would be no reason to complain - but some wish to impose their belief systems on others.

As for the UK - it's not quite true to suggest that the church has no power - the monarch is head of the Church of England, and it is the established church in that country despite only a minority being Christians, let alone Anglicans. In addition, a minimum of 26 bishops sit in the House of Lords as the 'Lords Spiritual', which means they can comment on and use their rhetorical gifts to influence legislation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_S...

It would be better for all concerned (IMO) if the church was disestablished, as it has been in Wales since 1920:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_...

[scarletnoir]

Storm wrote: "There was an article in The G this week about crime writers picking their favourite detectives. A fun Christmas type piece...."

I read the article in the hope that I'd find useful suggestions, but unfortunately many of the authors were unknown to me - or names whose books I haven't read. Even worse - some were authors whose books have displeased me to the point of 'never again'! I think Ian Rankin was the only one whose suggestion I might take up.

[Tam]

scarletnoir wrote: "Bill wrote: "Well, I tried to read Marilynne Robinson’s piece in the Dec 22 NYRB, but I finally had to give up and skim over the final third or so. She seems to be eager to show that modern physics..."

I agree with you on all comments, though I count myself as agnostic, as I believe that there is no proof of their being a God, but equally there is no proof that there isn't one either. If there is one, they are, I believe, supremely indifferent to whatever their people get up to.

But, also I am very interested in belief systems, and what humans imagine as the basis of their moral worlds. I suppose I might consider myself a sociologist of theosophy/philosophy. One thing that might be different between us is that I can empathise, to a limited extent, as to the comfort that a believer might get from having a belief system in place.

I may almost be a pagan, in the simplistic sense, but maybe only because I believe in the physical effects of the sun, the moon, and nature on our planet, and the universe... in other words a physicist?...

[MK]

It's a good thing that store-front rents are so high most places in the States, otherwise we would have Charity Shoppes like the UK and I not only would be broke but would have to wend my way amongst the piles of books stacked on the floor.

That said, I managed to pick up three books, all mysteries, yesterday at the Mercer Island Library booksale. After my ICK! horror post, I might have passed by just for the title, but it was in such excellent condition, I couldn't resist. Also found a British Library Crime Classic and a medieval mystery by Alys Clare. Subsequently, I see that my library has a number of her books - who knew?

[MK]

Tam wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "Bill wrote: "Well, I tried to read Marilynne Robinson’s piece in the Dec 22 NYRB, but I finally had to give up and skim over the final third or so. She seems to be eager to show..."

After having lived in the DC area for too long, my first name might be Cynical. What I don't get is with the billions of people on the planet, why people think there is someone somewhere who listens to them and grants their wishes instead of listening to others and their needs.

Doesn't make sense to me.

[AB76]

giveusaclue wrote: "Hey AB, have you got snow in the Shires?

Here is S. Derbyshire I went into Dunelm, shopped, got a coffe and a mince pie and came out. I missed the snowfall!"

Nada.....no snow....it snowed in london and further south but the shires is just frozen, hoarfrost on every tree, maybe snow will come tonight but i feel very left out!

[AB76]

scarletnoir wrote: "Bill wrote: "Well, I tried to read Marilynne Robinson’s piece in the Dec 22 NYRB, but I finally had to give up and skim over the final third or so. She seems to be eager to show that modern physics..."

i think the anglican secret is baptisms, i would suggest that as baptism means you are anglican its still a majority of the generation between 40 and 100. though ofc to count that as active Anglicans would be sketchy at best but its a church that offers no compulsions. Never once was i made to feel bad on sparse attendance of services, i consider myself an Anglican though and always give money when i visit anglican churches.

[Tam]

“Motto"

In the dark times
Will there also be singing?
Yes, there will also be singing.
About the dark times.”

― Bertolt Brecht

I feel I should produce something to indicate that I am still reading the odd book, amongst all else that has been happening around me. I came across this quote which I like very much, which reminded me that not so long ago I read a biography of Brecht called "Brecht: A choice of evils" by Martin Esslin. I found it quite hard going. I'm assuming that Esslin was a man of the far left somehow, otherwise I cant understand why he subtitled it as a 'A choice of Evils'. In that it was clear, according to him, that Brecht was all too happy to take money from the East German/Russian state, to run his theatre in East Berlin, and yet kept his bank account, and royalties in Switzerland. And he also failed to produce the Communist theatrical 'masterpiece' in praise of Communism, that they asked/expected him to produce. Does this make him evil? I don't think so. Just an inveterate opportunist and pragmatist.

I was interested in Brecht's relationship with Walter Benjamin, but alas the biography was not very forthcoming on that relationship, other than that he did have one of sorts. I also found Esslin's lack of interest in the women in Brecht's life very remiss. Only the famous actress one gets any personal mention at all, and even that was minimal. Esslin's theses seemed to be that it was because Brecht was a poet that everything he set out to do had to become 'artful', by it's own intrinsic nature, that was the basis of his fame, and success. Alas he fails to convince as to whether he was a good poet or not. Perhaps the poetry quoted 'got lost in translation', somehow...

But it did lead me to understand the quote from Susan Sontag's book, 'Under the Sign of Saturn' that Brecht had a motto on his writing desk, when he lived in Denmark, which was there to remind him about how universal his theatrical messages should be, in his plays. I liked this very much, which read "even the donkey should understand". This perhaps explains why I liked coming across his poem 'Motto'. It seemed to explain to me what Esslin's book did not very well. That Brecht had a talent for taking folkloric imagery and sayings and simplifying them into short and memorable mottos... The rest is history... as they say...

[Bill]

scarletnoir wrote: "I'm a physicist, and have often been puzzled by the way in which certain religious people try to seek some sort of spurious legitimacy for their beliefs by 'proving' that those are not incompatible with science."

Have you read Edgar Allan Poe's "Eureka: A Prose Poem"?

If so, I wonder what you, as a physicist, think of it.

I found Poe's ideas about the origin of the universe and the solar system pretty astonishing for a work published in 1848.

[MK]

I just finished and it's on its way back to the library. All in all, it was depressing. Think college debt, an extremely masculine environment, and a toxic natural environment--but still worth a read, especially if you get in line at the library.

[Georg]

Geez. This discussion about religion isn't ongoing, it's on-running.
Before I could get in my two-pennies worth about Marilynne Robinson and people in the public eye who bang on about their religion in public and fundamentalist Christians, and... all has been said, collectively, Which is very nice: I feel I am in good company here.

@scarlet (#119):

The problem arises when those with (or, I suppose, without) faith attempt to use their beliefs as a means of controlling others

I believe that is, and has always been, the raison d'etre for all organized religion(s).

And I must say: they were really clever: you get your reward for unquestioning obedience in the afterlife. If you question us you question God and you will get your punishment (death) for that straight away (no need to think about the terrible afterlife that is awaiting you anyway).

They (all of them), were much cleverer (and most much more cynical) than the communists.

@Bill (#113): great quote from Matthew. Could be an excellemt stick to beat some people with. Only they would not understand it.

One of my pet hates have, for a long time, been zealots. Not long ago I thought: but I'd prefer a bat-shit crazy zealot who really believes in his cause and drinks what he preaches (water) to a completely rotten hypocrite.


I don't believe in God because he made the devil, Lucifer, redundant. What an idiot...

[AB76]

I must read that Marilynne Robinson article that you mentioned BIll, i am very interested in religious discussion and debate, though as we have been discussing here, not when it comes with a heap of self-righteousness or holier than thou attitudes

Secular Europe and the USA are like worlds apart on religion, only maybe Poland and parts of Spain and Portugal are anywhere close to the observance and use of religious imagery in politics and public service.

Its impressive that Bidens faith is not a part of the right wing religious attacks on him as far as i can see, only 60 odd years ago JFK had to make his faith a part of the Presidential campaign, he did well but it was certainly not an easy ride at times, as the first non-protestant President in USA history. Though a few of the earlier ones were Deists but with Protestant family roots.

I feel the modern mission of men of the cloth is almost a return to its origins, to help and administer comfort to the poor and the needy, as the bible states. Certainly His Grace, The Archbishop of Canterbury has become a key figure in calling out our political "masters" on their bizarre crusades against "invasions" and the needy.

[Bill]

AB76 wrote: "Its impressive that Bidens faith is not a part of the right wing religious attacks on him as far as i can see, ..."

You may not have heard of it in the UK, but there has been an effort, so far not successful as far as I now, on the part of some US Catholic bishops to deny communion to Biden and other Catholic politicians who support abortion rights, such as Nancy Pelosi.

[scarletnoir]

Tam wrote: "I count myself as agnostic, as I believe that there is no proof of their being a God, but equally there is no proof that there isn't one either. "

Of course - and agnosticism is the only rational standpoint - but, for me, a profoundly unsatisfactory one. I felt the need to commit to a basis for life... had I chosen 'faith', no doubt I'd have ended up as a monk or something. Since there did not appear to be any clear evidence of a supreme being, I decided that atheism made more sense as a basis - otherwise, how to choose between the many competing religions? This does have disadvantages and problems - I know people find 'comfort' in their beliefs, and no doubt it's nicer to believe in 'heaven' than in oblivion; you also get an oven-ready list of what you can and can't do, as opposed to having to choose and take your own decisions regarding which actions are acceptable and which are not - hard work, but worth it for some of us.

The choice, though, is irrational either way; I just couldn't live on the basis of uncertainty.

[scarletnoir]

Georg wrote: "The problem arises when those with (or, I suppose, without) faith attempt to use their beliefs as a means of controlling others...

I believe that is, and has always been, the raison d'etre for all organized religion(s)."

Yes, indeed - and whereas I don't mind the 'followers' having their beliefs, I do find offensive the way in which religious leaders seek to control (and profit from) those followers. Also, the terminology used can be revealing: in the Christian church, leaders refer to their 'flock', turning their congregations into mindless sheep.

[scarletnoir]

Bill wrote: "Have you read Edgar Allan Poe's "Eureka: A Prose Poem"?"

No, I'm afraid not - I haven't read any Poe apart from a short story at school, which creeped me out - it was about a giant whirlpool (forget the title). I did see a few of Roger Corman's Poe movie adaptations, though - 'The Pit and the Pendulum', 'The Masque of the Red Death' etc. I don't like reading horror, though.

I suspect whatever ideas he discusses in the poem might have been 'in the air' at that time - few if any theories spring from nowhere, and usually you find with scientific theories as well as social or political ones that various versions are discussed and debated before one or other becomes dominant.

[Paul]

AB76 wrote: "I must read that Marilynne Robinson article that you mentioned BIll, i am very interested in religious discussion and debate, though as we have been discussing here, not when it comes with a heap o..."

I don't know. Here in Italy, religion is less demonstrative or identifying, simply because it is so utterly monochromatic. The biggest cities, Firenze, Milan> 1 synagogue. Rome maybe has 2 or 3. Islam is becoming slightly more prevalent with immigration, but try building a mosque in any place and you'll see real fast how un-religious Italians are. Every time a pope issues a statement, the voting percentages explode and his edict inevitably becomes law. "Religion" is taught in public schools, and by religion they mean the trainign you need for christening and confirmation.

I think religion is far more insidiously penetrant in SOuthern Europe. They don't bother to call it religion, they call it tradition. Same bullshit though. Religiosity in America is far more evident, but it's also far, far less monochromatic than it is in Europe as a whole. There are actually Jews in the states, Muslims, Quakers, Pentecostals, Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't know what the distribution is in the UK, but there is no laissez faire state sanctioned religion in the states, while there is one de facto throughout much of Europe. It's easier to be low-key in your practices of religion when you're dead certain that you're not going to find much dissension amongst your peers.

[Gpfr]

I decided to stay in Australia and with Australian cops for a while and read Bitter Wash Road by Garry Disher.
Paul Hirschhausen runs a one-cop station in a small, dusty South Australian town. Bitter Wash Road tells of his arrival in this town after being involved in a case of police corruption which has left him under suspicion of being dirty himself or accused of being a rat.
I got this a while ago, I think when scarletnoir wrote an excellent review which you can find with the search if you're interested :). Storm also recommended it.
Just a warning, it's also under the title Hell to Pay, so don't fall into the trap of thinking it's a different book! A 4th book in the series is coming next year.

[scarletnoir]

AB76 wrote: "To Have and Have Not by Ernest Hemmingway (1937) has opened in Havana, 1930s Cuba and a Marlin fishing captain taking out a paying client."

I haven't read the novel - or any Hemingway for that matter - but the very good film version is famous for bringing together Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall. Directed by Howard Hawks, how could it fail? (Some hack named William Faulkner also worked on the screenplay.)

This story was new to me, though:

Most film fans know the famous bet made between Ernest Hemingway and legendary director Howard Hawks (SCARFACE, BRINGING UP BABY). Hawks claimed he could make a good film out of Hemingway's worst novel. He does and Hemingway hopefully paid up.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0037382/...

[Bill]

Paul wrote: "Religiosity in America is far more evident, but it's also far, far less monochromatic than it is in Europe as a whole. There are actually Jews in the states, Muslims, Quakers, Pentecostals, Jehovah's Witnesses."

Even though religious bigotry and Islamophobia are fairly common in US, especially outside urban areas, I don't think that a proposed law like France's ban on headscarves would get much traction even in the more conservative states.

I understand that France's law also banned the wearing of an "array of religious symbols", but haven't seen a listing of what these are. I'm sure if a US law banning Muslim symbols also included, in an attempt to pass Constitutional muster, any prohibition of a Christian symbol, the lawmakers who supported it would never be re-elected.

[Paul]

Bill wrote: "Paul wrote: "Religiosity in America is far more evident, but it's also far, far less monochromatic than it is in Europe as a whole. There are actually Jews in the states, Muslims, Quakers, Pentecos..."

Yes, I agree. I can assure you, no one is asking nuns to remove their habits in Avignon. I find that Europeans tend to turn a blind eye to their own on-going histories of injustice and religious discrimination. Other than Germans, speaking generally. I never saw a person spat upon for being a different color until I moved to Europe and since then. I never saw a city without a vibrant Jewish population until I got here either, so... it's fairly tone deaf

[AB76]

Paul wrote: "AB76 wrote: "I must read that Marilynne Robinson article that you mentioned BIll, i am very interested in religious discussion and debate, though as we have been discussing here, not when it comes ..."

i guess with the USA, the religious diversity comes from the 13 colonies casting off the established church pretty early on, followed by protestant dissenters from other european nations bringing their own sects too, creating a very diverse protestant world

In the UK, diversity among protestants was easily the best outside the USA up to the 1950s (i include Canada, Aus, NZ and SAF too). Germany has very small non-Lutheran protestant numbers and its the same in Scandinavia. The dutch have majority calvinism among its dwindling numbers, with lutherans being tolerated for since the 1600s but in smaller numbers, there are also the Mennonite and Remonstrant minorities.

Europe is of course defined mostly by its Catholic states which all suppressed the reformation successfully, which left a monochrome world of faith. Italy in the 1930s had tiny Jewish and Protestant minorities.. (The originally french speaking Waldensians in Piedmont remain the largest Italian protestant sect and some may see them as ethnically French)

[AB76]

Bill wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Its impressive that Bidens faith is not a part of the right wing religious attacks on him as far as i can see, ..."

You may not have heard of it in the UK, but there has been an effor..."

oh gosh, that is so petty, thanks for sharing that Bill...i now realise the whole thing is more insane than before.

[Andy]

After a week or so of it being bedtime reading, I eventually finished the rather splendid Other Worlds: Peasants, Pilgrims, Spirits, Saints by Teffi, translated from the Russian by Raymond and Elizabeth Chandler.

This is a selected collection of stories from Teffi's books of short stories, in a chronological order.

It is her writing from later in her career that is most appealing to me.
In the first of five parts of the book, The Lifeless Beast, the writing is more serious, and less inclined to the fantastical, really interesting as period and historical pieces, but less entertaining than what is to come.

The last two stories in Part Three, The Book of June, and Part Four, Witch, are where the stories become compelling. They are based on Teffi's own memories of her childhood.

"Wild Evening” is about fear of the unknown. With the exception of a wandering peddler, everyone in the story, the young Teffi, the monks, even the horse, are in a state of terror. All around there lurks threatening forces, whether it is simply the darkness, cattle plague, or the recent dead.

In “Shapeshifter” a stranger’s chance intervention prompts the young girl (Teffi herself?) to decide against marriage to a mysterious lawyer.


Much of Witch is based on Teffi’s recollections of her childhood summers in Volhynia in the mountain foothills of what is now western Ukraine, not far from the Polish border.
I was riding my bike there during my trip through the Carpathians just six years ago, it is great country.

It is in Part Four, selections from Witch, where Teffi really comes into her own. These are stories of Russian folklore, beautiful and yet haunting, deep-rooted in the forest, and easy to read. In most of them, at some stage, the author has inserted herself into the tale, an indication perhaps of the time of her childhood that she was first told them, the huge influence they had on her, and of how her imagination built them to what they are here. A
There's a mix of good and evil spirits with just the appropriate dash of humour sprinkled in.

About The House concerns the house spirit, the domovoy,

a serious being. He is fair and just, and he takes care of the house, all family concerns, and the stables. For some reason, he’s not interested in the other animals - only the horses.

In The Bathhouse Devil we learn something of the history of the banya.

You weren’t supposed to hang an icon there, which was what made it so scary. Nor would anyone ever have taken it into their head to go to the bathhouse alone. Ever since medieval times God-fearing people have had a disapproving attitude toward washing. It’s a sinful business, parading around in just your flesh.

The wildest young girls would go to the bathhouse at night and look into the mirror, where it was reputed they would see the man destined to be their love. Though on occasions, instead of their love, the girl sees

something coming at her that is so very wicked and evil that no magic words will banish it.

I am looking forward to reading her work more widely.

[Gpfr]

Bill wrote: "France's ban on headscarves ... I understand that France's law also banned the wearing of an "array of religious symbols", but haven't seen a listing of what these are..."

It includes a cross (if it's big/ostentatious), a Jewish skullcap/yarmulke, a Sikh turban... Visible religious symbols are not supposed to be worn in state/public schools or by those working for the fonction publique (obligation of neutrality).

The notion of l'école laiique is important in France.

La laïcité est un principe de liberté, liberté de croire ou de ne pas croire. Elle est au fondement de notre société et de notre école qui doit préserver les élèves de tout prosélytisme idéologique, économique et religieux.

Secularism is a principle of freedom, freedom to believe or not to believe. It is the foundation of our society and our school, which must protect students from all ideological, economic and religious proselytism.

[Andy]

Also, just done with Patrick Leigh Fermor's Roumeli: Travels in Northern Greece.

At one stage the author ponders what the area will be like in 50 years time, already he says, there are signs of tourism changing the areas he visits.

Its 56 years on now, and I plan to visit and follow his progress later next year, though with dog and van in tow. A week or so ago I read his earlier book, Mani: Travels in the Southern Peloponnese, by which I was inspired. I don't expect things to be much like they were in Fermor's days, but I am nonetheless very keen to find out.

Mani's northern counterpart follows Fermor's journey among Sarakatsan shepherds, the monasteries of Meteora and the villages of Krakora, among itinerant pedlars and beggars, and even tracks down at Missolonghi a pair of Byron’s slippers.

He attains the balance between travelogue and historical detail effortlessly. Its a difficult balance to get right, most readers are not beginners to Greek history, or to the country's culture, yet neither are they by any means experts.
I will revisit this while travelling, and appreciate more the historical aspects.

These are two of the best travel books of the twentieth century.

[Andy]

and, Here Is New York by E.B. White

Better known for his children's books, EB (Andy) White also wrote essays for The New Yorker. This is probably the essay he is most famous for.
He simply takes a wander through the streets of Manhattan and presents what appear to be conflicting images of the city, all of which blend together and coexist to give the city its identity.

I knew this was short of course (48 pages), but nonetheless I was left with the sort of feeling you get out of sticking your nose into a rare and aged single malt, and being denied a dram.

From its last pages is this quote..

The subtlest change in New York is something people don’t speak much about but that is in everyone’s mind. The city, for the first time in its long history, is destructible. A single flight of planes no bigger than a wedge of geese can quickly end this island fantasy, burn the towers, crumble the bridges, turn the underground passages into lethal chambers, cremate the millions. The intimation of mortality is part of New York now: in the sound of jets overhead, in the black headlines of the latest edition.

Of course White is writing about New York in 1948, just after the war and the introduction of the atomic bomb, but to the modern day reader to is impossible not to think of 9/11, and to the residents of a country whose President not so long ago, made nuclear war the subject of irate tweets.

All dwellers in cities must live with the stubborn fact of annihilation; in New York the fact is somewhat more concentrated because of the concentration of the city itself, and because, of all targets, new York has a certain clear priority. In the mind of whatever perverted dreamer might loose the lightning, New York must hold a steady, irresistible charm.

Its powerful stuff, rationalising fear, and is as applicable now, as it was then.

[AB76]

Gpfr wrote: "Bill wrote: "France's ban on headscarves ... I understand that France's law also banned the wearing of an "array of religious symbols", but haven't seen a listing of what these are..."

It includes..."

i am a big supporter of lacite in france, its badly translated or interpreted in some places but its a bold brave policy, France has been struggling with the seperation of church and state since the early 1900s and its still divisive now.

the problem with multicultural europe is that many immigrants come from cultures where religion is almost the centre of everything, they then have to adapt to a world where it means very little outside the private sphere, which can be confusing when religion is a public matter in these countries.

[Tam]

Paul wrote: "Bill wrote: "Paul wrote: "Religiosity in America is far more evident, but it's also far, far less monochromatic than it is in Europe as a whole. There are actually Jews in the states, Muslims, Quak..."

Its just conspicuous religious symbols in French state and secondary schools that are banned, so would not have affected the nuns of Avignon. At my (English) secondary school all jewellery was banned except Christian crosses. I wore a 'hells angel' one, which was huge, and so very conspicuous, but could not be banned under 'the rules'.

I was a member of the awkward squad in those days, I have to admit, which many young teenagers are, so I can see the point of dress rules in school and from my current position in life I look back on my teenage self as, generally, a 'right pain'!...

Though the French secular state law implementation was more about clamping down on immigrant parents choice of conspicuous religious garb for their children. So I guess the French secular state thought that it was standing up for the right of children to not be indoctrinated at an early age? It isn't referred to as 'the headscarf ban' for no reason though, so it definitely seems to be targeted at a particular group of religious believers.

[Gpfr]

Tam wrote: "It isn't referred to as 'the headscarf ban' for no reason though, ..."

Quite.

[AB76]

Tam wrote: "Paul wrote: "Bill wrote: "Paul wrote: "Religiosity in America is far more evident, but it's also far, far less monochromatic than it is in Europe as a whole. There are actually Jews in the states, ..."

i wonder if small protestant sects who favour headscarfs(Mennonite and Brethren) have issues in France, i would guess there numbers are so tiny, it hardly ever crops up

[Georg]

AB76 wrote(#141): "oh gosh, that is so petty, thanks for sharing that Bill...i now realise the whole thing is more insane than before.

More insane than before???

"Is there hope for the Salvation of the souls of unbabtised dying children" was the subject of a conference of eminent members of the Catholic church, held in the Vatican, anno domini 2005.

Very progressive, I take it. Considering they have, for hundreds of years, maintained that babies who died without the sacrament of baptism would not be allowed past the pearly gates.

[Bill]

Speaking of differences in religious attitudes in Europe and the US, I’ll touch on a sensitive subject, the Charlie Hebdo killings.

It should go without saying – but doesn’t necessarily, alas – that this was a horrific act of terrorism and that those involved in planning and carrying out the attack deserve the harshest punishment allowed by law. But there were a minority of us in the US who thought that honoring the victims as martyrs to freedom of speech was excessive.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...

The CH magazine covers which satirized Muslim and Jewish groups that were published in US news sources after the killings struck me as “punching down”: when a group who are members of a society’s majority culture ridicule or attack the beliefs and behaviors of a minority group, basically a form of bullying. This practice, often couched as “humor”, is almost exclusively practiced in the US by right-wing provocateurs who inevitably defend their statements as “free speech” (see Elon Musk and Twitter as a current example). (These “free speech” advocates largely overlap with those currently working to suppress speech on abortion access.)

Mass shootings are far more common in the US than in Europe, and often the victims are chosen for being, or perceived as being, members of a minority vilified by those “free speech” advocates. Unfortunately, unless the shooter is - or seems - inspired by Islamic radicalism, these incidents are not treated as terrorism, which is exactly what they are.

Two personal anecdotes (both from the pre-COVID era) on minority religion near me, and the evidence of the kind of threats they perceive:

One Friday afternoon I was driving near my in-laws’ former house in NE Philadelphia when I passed a nearby house which serves as a mosque. There are no signs or formal indications of its use for this purpose, but there is shelving outside the main door where worshippers can leave their shoes. That afternoon, as people were gathering for the call to prayer, attendants outside the building directing traffic were openly carrying automatic weapons. I didn’t feel personally threatened, but afterward I certainly avoided that street on Fridays, not wishing to find myself in any kind of crossfire.

Another time I was having lunch in an Indian restaurant near my home and overheard two men behind me discussing plans for an upcoming Hindu festival at a local suburban temple. One subject of discussion was the placement of a sharpshooter at a spot overlooking the festival grounds.

[MK]

AB76 wrote: "Paul wrote: "AB76 wrote: "I must read that Marilynne Robinson article that you mentioned BIll, i am very interested in religious discussion and debate, though as we have been discussing here, not w..."

google suggestion - Camp meetings.

In my view nothing like a stemwinder in front of a crowd. And that reminds me of a certain former ex-president.