2023 TOB Longlist!

[Amy]

I'm a few days late to posting but I'm available now so please let me know if there are any additional topics besides the usual you'd like to see for the upcoming TOB!

Longlist posted: themorningnews.org/article/the-year-i...
(unfortunately we can no longer post external links)

If anyone has already created a spreadsheet/google doc for this (with page length preferably!) please post it to the thread!

Next thread will be for the shortlist competition (which I'll get posted no later than Tuesday so we have at least a week to compete!)

[Phyllis]

Amy wrote: "I'm a few days late to posting but I'm available now so please let me know if ..."

Amy! So exciting to have you back!

[Kyle]

"The Violin Conspiracy" was a pretty solid read. It doesn't exactly break any molds, it's not the most innovative book in the tournament, but I found it enjoyable throughout and thoughtful about the intersection of race and 'classical' art.

Currently starting "My Volcano," which does seem to be of the more idiosyncratic style...

[Joy D]

Kyle wrote: ""The Violin Conspiracy" was a pretty solid read. It doesn't exactly break any molds, it's not the most innovative book in the tournament, but I found it enjoyable throughout and thoughtful about th..."
I liked The Violin Conspiracy too, but it seemed a little less polished (in terms of the writing style) than I would expect from a book in the ToB. It was engaging enough to keep me occupied on a cross-country flight.

[Karen]

One of my more ridiculous pet peeves is the excessive (in my view) use of "palimpsest" by Writers Writing Literature. Ugh: palimpsest alert! on pg. 105 of Tomorrowx3. That said, I must begrudgingly admit it was a perfectly appropriate use of the word but still: le sigh.

[Risa]

Karen wrote: "One of my more ridiculous pet peeves is the excessive (in my view) use of "palimpsest" by Writers Writing Literature. Ugh: palimpsest alert! on pg. 105 of Tomorrowx3. That said, I must begrudgingly..."

My pet peeve is "felt badly".
Unless your character has lost sensation in her fingers, then ... let's not do this.

[Karen]

Risa wrote: "Karen wrote: "One of my more ridiculous pet peeves is the excessive (in my view) use of "palimpsest" by Writers Writing Literature. Ugh: palimpsest alert! on pg. 105 of Tomorrowx3. That said, I mus..."

Bwhahahahaha.
In the same vein, I raise you a " fingered" and/or "tongued". Someone is forever "fingering the [fine/worn-out/woolen] fabric" or "tonguing the raw void" where a tooth [fell/was knocked] out. No thank you.

[Carmel]

"Sucks teeth" anyone? I can't believe how often I run into that.... and what IS it???

[Nadine in NY]

Carmel wrote: ""Sucks teeth" anyone? I can't believe how often I run into that.... and what IS it???"




LOL it's a common thing but the description of it always LEAPS off the page at me and I hate it. Just sort of lightly place your teeth together or against your lower lip and suck in, in a disapproving manner, and you're doing it. You can twist your lips in a Billy Idol style at the same time for added sneer effect.


Not that this would be a ToB book, but I was driven to distraction by the number of times Aunt Patience was "working her mouth" in Jamaica Inn.

[Tim]

Karen wrote: "One of my more ridiculous pet peeves is the excessive (in my view) use of "palimpsest" by Writers Writing Literature...."

Ha. You probably haven't noticed mine: the incorrect (I'm not even going to pretend to disclaim that) use, by Writers Writing About Literature, of ... tr*pe.

[Kip]

Tim, I was wondering if you were going to pop up here with your trope hatred after seeing enough over the years in ToB comment sections to know that this is your pet peeve. Makes me want to reread my reviews to see if I have ever used it (although I think you have wedged it into my brain enough that I try not to)

[Karen]

Who can forget topos v trope?!!! I count on everyone’s quirks and smarts - I always learn so much!

[Ruthiella]

Amy wrote: "If anyone has already created a spreadsheet/google doc for this (with page length preferably!) please post it to the thread!"

Hi Amy. The TOB actually provided a google doc with the page count this year: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...

[Carmel]

Nadine in NY wrote: "Carmel wrote: ""Sucks teeth" anyone? I can't believe how often I run into that.... and what IS it???"




LOL it's a common thing but the description of it always LEAPS off the page at me and I hat..."

Haha! It makes me want to take a poll of all the people I know to ask, do you actually suck your teeth?? I never do!! Thanks for the description. I could guess, but really, do people DO that with the kind of regularity I see it in books? It seems especially common when the setting is in the south. Maybe it's a regional behavior. But, like you, it leaps at me and I cringe!

[Kyle]

Alright, you guys weren't kidding about T&T&T. I'm about a fourth in and loving it so far.

[Phyllis]

I just finished The Torqued Man and it is a debut novel that knocked my socks off. Which surprised the heck out of me because it is a spy, WWII, historical fiction story -- none of which usually cry out to me that I will love it. Also, it should have trigger warnings for just about everything, so you have to be ready for a really dirty, gritty, upsetting story. But the prose, the plot, the settings, the characters, the structure: this has it all in my humble view. I was really impressed and couldn't stop reading once I started.

[Jan]

“Sucks teeth”…I’ve only noticed it in the last few years, and my sense has been that it’s Caribbean. Go figure.

I just finished Lynn Steiger Strong’s Flight. It was nice domestic fiction, and I liked it better than Strong’s previous novel, Want…but nothing special.

[Karen]

Phyllis wrote: "I just finished The Torqued Man and it is a debut novel that knocked my socks off. Which surprised the heck out of me because it is a spy, WWII, historical fiction story -- none of which usually cr..."

ohh! hooray, i was dreading having to pick the next book to read. This will go to the top of my pile!

[Kip]

Karen wrote: "Phyllis wrote: "I just finished The Torqued Man and it is a debut novel that knocked my socks off. Which surprised the heck out of me because it is a spy, WWII, historical fiction story -- none of ..."

I also finished Torqued Man yesterday and like Phyllis, I also posted a 5 star rave review. Definitely check it out if looking for your next book!

[Matthew]

Kip wrote: "Karen wrote: "Phyllis wrote: "I just finished The Torqued Man and it is a debut novel that knocked my socks off. Which surprised the heck out of me because it is a spy, WWII, historical fiction sto..."

Nice - this happens to be one of two that I purchased from the longlist based on a whim. Moving this up in the tbr oder!

[Kyle]

The synopsis looked pretty good - I'll see if it's available at the library.

I finished Olga Dies Dreaming, which was pretty nice. It did feel... I dunno, a little on the generic side? I felt like I'd read several books like it before, both in style/structure and subject matter. Solid read, but nothing that truly jumped out at me as a "wow!" kind of book.

[Tim]

Phyllis wrote: "I just finished The Torqued Man and it is a debut novel that knocked my socks off. "

I just finished =The Torqued Man= yesterday, too. But I have more of a mixed review.

I really liked the structure, the style, and (mostly) the voices. And to be clear, I enjoyed reading it.

But...

While de Groot came across as a fully formed character, Finn did not. I mean, he did at the start, but I felt like the characterization was unraveling in the second half of the novel. He stopped seeming like a person, and started seeming like a plot device. Which brings me to the plot. Like Finn, the plotting seemed to become problematic as the story wound on.

I think I should probably put a spoiler tag around this.

(view spoiler)[
It didn't feel organic or coherent, I could see the author's hands at work pulling the strings. For example, the smut is singled out as a key thread and driver for the plot. But it didn't make sense. Crean "found" de Groot's dad's stash, but it turns out, he needn't have, since he was already linked to the source. The smut was used to accelerate the fires at the end, but while it was presented by Finn as an elegant solution, it was only elegant to the author: it wasn't needed at all for the attack on the chemical plant. Yeah, okay, I get that the silver nitrate (nitride? I'm not a chemist, and I'm not paging back through to check) is an accelerant, but it was hardly necessary at the point. And also, if the stash really did come from de Groot's Dad, how did he have the negatives. Surely the dungeon masters held on to those to make more prints.

Also, everyone was struggling to feed themselves in Germany at the time, but somehow, no one but Finn and the kids thought to go fishing?

he point I'm trying to make is that there were many incidents that were jammed into the plot for the author's reasons that didn't fit very organically in the world of the novel. As those started to accumulate (mostly in the latter half of the novel) I started to lose patience. Too many incoherent coincidences driving the plot, too many events staged just for the benefit of the reading audience.
(hide spoiler)]

Fun to read, but it doesn't stand up well on reflection.

[Lauren]

Thanks so much to Amy for keeping us organized! And to everyone who signed up for my newsletter - y'all are awesome!

Let's see if I can catch up...

I'm also not a fan of the word "palimpsest," and don't love descriptions like "fingering" and "tonguing." I assumed "sucking teeth" referred to making that tsk-ing sound of disapproval... Never looked into it, though.

My favorite part of Tomorrowx3 is how it gave me a strong appreciation for video game creation, even though I have zero interest in video games. So you have to have writing, coding, and graphic design skills, along with an incredible imagination, tenacity, and patience? Wow, I am impressed and can now understand why it's such a lucrative career option. But I also appreciated the story's focus on friendship, which I always crave more of in novels. 4.5 stars

For Olga Dies Dreaming, it wasn't without its flaws but ended up having surprising staying power for me, probably because I have a significant interest in Puerto Rican history, revolutions, and stories about mothers abandoning their children (I didn't realize that last part until I read both Olga and The Last Karankawas, and the topic came up during their panel discussion at the Texas Book Festival last month). 4.5 stars

I just finished listening to Disorientation, and I enjoyed it. You could say the story is a bit overpowered by the deep dive and nuances of racism, white supremacy, Asian discrimination and fetishization, etc. explored here, but since those are things I'm interested in, I was able to roll with it. I think readers are expected to feel exhausted by how challenging it is to navigate those things, and we are supposed to struggle alongside the main character. The ending was definitely a surprise, and the epilogue was fairly satisfying. Overall a worthwhile read. 4 stars

One of my biggest long list disappointments so far (other than You Made a Fool, which I read months ago), was Ocean State, which I listened to a few days ago. The writing was strong, kept me engaged, but the ending just made me mad. (view spoiler)[ What the heck was the point of the whole story?? When teen Latinas fight over a boy one of them might kill the other and then everything ends up kind of fine? I was expecting a deep exploration of how someone could carry out violence like that, and respect for the devastating consequences of the murder, but the end felt like it was all for nothing. (hide spoiler)] Ugh, 2 frustrated stars.

On the more positive side, I listened to Search, and it was a delight! I think it might be the *lightest* adult book I've ever read, and after a week of bad news regarding tough stuff my friends and family are going through, it was just what I was in the mood for. Low stakes, low drama, realistic, quiet but not boring, etc. The only flag is that the description emphasizes recipes, and while I didn't mind this because I don't cook, there were no recipes in the story, and it barely mentioned food at all, beyond a one-sentence, "We ate X during that meeting." So as long as you adjust your expectations on that front, I recommend it for some lighthearted reading (especially for those not up for the deep dive into grief that Notes on Your Sudden Disappearance provides). 4 stars

I just started 2 A.M. in Little America, and the theme seems very similar to An Island. While I struggled with the audio narration of the latter, the ending was compelling and made me think about how (view spoiler)[ the reactions to our fears of violence are often violent themselves. I think that connects to so much of what we're seeing in the U.S. and around the world. (hide spoiler)] 4 stars

For Mouth to Mouth, it didn't knock my socks off, but the ending was solid, and I think the question at the heart of the story was worthwhile to explore. 4 stars

Once I finish 2 a.m. I plan to jump into Didn't Nobody Give a Shit What Happened to Carlotta, which is probably my most anticipated long list book, along with Which Side Are You On. I hope I'm not setting my expectations too high for those!

Happy reading.

[Phyllis]

Tim wrote: " . . . I just finished =The Torqued Man= yesterday, too. But I have more of a mixed review..."

I'm putting my response to your spoiler-y thoughts behind a spoiler tag as well, just so we don't spoil the fun for those who haven't read this yet.

(view spoiler)[I don't disagree with your feeling that you could see the author's hands at work pulling the strings. It was a densely complicated plot, and for a debut novelist I still think he did a pretty amazing job with handling all of the plot complexity.

Re the smut stash. Perhaps I didn't follow the timing well, but it seemed to me that: (1) de Groot's dad may have been the original dungeon master who operated the dungeon where the smut was produced, and so he may well have had the negatives of what was produced before he died; (2) Crean may well have discovered the trunk of smut floating in the river, and then subsequently found the dungeon where it was produced; (3) Finn needed to get the smut out of de Groot's house and then wanted rid of it, so it was just handy to do so by using it to ignite the fires.

Re the fishing. I'm not sure what makes you think that no one else thought to go fishing.

Re Finn's unraveling character. Perhaps I'm being overly generous, but I thought that Finn -- the man -- really was unravelling more & more throughout the story. He seemed to be living out his Finn McCool / Robin Hood / Peter Pan / heroic fantasies, or at least doing so in his own mind. And so he became an increasingly more unreliable narrator as the story went on. So to me, his unravelling was part & parcel of the story. (hide spoiler)]

But I do understand why & how you, and others, might find this novel to be less wonderful than I found it to be.

[Heather]

Lauren wrote: "Thanks so much to Amy for keeping us organized! And to everyone who signed up for my newsletter - y'all are awesome!

Let's see if I can catch up...

I'm also not a fan of the word "palimpsest," a..."

I read Search a while ago, so I may be remembering it wrong, but I think the print version did have recipes at the end.

[Tim]

Phyllis wrote: I'm putting my response to your spoiler-y thoughts behind a spoiler tag as well, just so ..."

Hmm.

(view spoiler)[
Okay, I'll give you the unraveling of Finn as an actual unraveling of Finn. It's hard to know given the source of our information on Finn during his last days - only his own writings. But that's a good point. After all, de Groot was having his own unraveling (and implausible coincidences), too.

But the porn stash? I'm not saying there isn't some way to rationalize it, I'm just saying there isn't a very graceful way to do so. If you just think about how the material itself drives the plot, it works - it provides an interesting unifying thread. But if you think about what had to be happening to align all the pieces...I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it feels forced. The hand of the author manipulating his scene.

For the fishing - it's only the fact that the river wasn't depleted; an abundant source of food for Finn and his rag tag army. I'd have imagined (I'm not expert on wartime Germany, so happy to be corrected) that a very hungry population might have thought to draw down the edible freshwater stock. Similarly with the foraging he undertakes to recover his strength. Either the food situation wasn't as desperate as it seemed, or you'd think more desperate people with a more intimate knowledge of the local landscape might have thought of foraging, too, and cleared the forest.

I'm sure I'm over-thinking it.
(hide spoiler)]

In the end, all I'm saying is the feeling I got that I was watching the author manipulate the plot left me feeling manipulated in what I otherwise thought was a clever and well-written story.

[Tim]

Lauren wrote: "I'm also not a fan of the word 'palimpsest,' "

Okay, I'm not afraid to say it - I am a fan of the word palimpsest (so long as it isn't being used to mean "topos").

[Jason]

Enjoying Babel, Or the Necessity of Violence: An Arcane History of the Oxford Translators’ Revolution. Taking one for the team.

[Kip]

Phyllis wrote: "Tim wrote: " . . . I just finished =The Torqued Man= yesterday, too. But I have more of a mixed review..."

I'm putting my response to your spoiler-y thoughts behind a spoiler tag as well, just so ..."

(view spoiler)[ I believed the unravelling/unreliability/plot coincidences of the ending chapters were also in part aping the "topos" of a pulp spy novel. Some things were just too neat and convenient, which paired to the journal entries made this intricate mix of real and fake where it was unclear altogether what actually happened. I thought it was a blending of styles that really added to the book.

I also think that my reading style is much more vibes-based then plot-construction-and-logicality-based, which is not to say it's better in anyway whatsoever. But merely that these were not things I even considered or would trouble me. But that's why books are fun, there are so many angles to come at them from. (hide spoiler)]

[Kyle]

I'm now at about 8, having read Trust, Sea of Tranquility, Mercury Pictures, and Babel before the list came out, and Checkout 19, Olga Dies Dreaming, T&T&T, and Violin Conspiracy after its release. I've got five lined up - This is Not a Time to Panic, My Volcano, Rabbit Hutch, Seven Steeples, and Seven Moons of Maali Almeida.

I fully expect the shortlist to come out and include absolutely none of these, now that I've put in the time and diligence.

[Phyllis]

Tim wrote: "...In the end, all I'm saying is the feeling I got that I was watching the author manipulate the plot left me feeling manipulated in what I otherwise thought was a clever and well-written story."

And I certainly can't disagree with that!

[Phyllis]

Kip wrote: "...But that's why books are fun, there are so many angles to come at them from."

And he's already given us so much to talk about! I like your spy pulp fiction theory.

[Phyllis]

Kyle wrote: "...I fully expect the shortlist to come out and include absolutely none of these, now that I've put in the time and diligence."
You're safe, Kyle, that at least Sea of Tranquility will be in the tourney, since it won summer camp! So worst case scenario, you'll only have another 17 or 18 to read to be a completist.

[Risa]

Tim wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I'm also not a fan of the word 'palimpsest,' "

Okay, I'm not afraid to say it - I am a fan of the word palimpsest (so long as it isn't being used to mean "topos")."

I am nominating Tim for Today's Comment Winner.

[Nadine in NY]

Kyle wrote: "I fully expect the shortlist to come out and include absolutely none of these, now that I've put in the time and diligence...."

Same here. I read three before the list came out, one after, and I have three more currently on hold, which probably guarantees that most of them will not be on the list.

[Karen]

Risa wrote: "Tim wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I'm also not a fan of the word 'palimpsest,' "

Okay, I'm not afraid to say it - I am a fan of the word palimpsest (so long as it isn't being used to mean "topos")."

I a..."

I second your nomination.

[Kip]

I have actually managed to get to 22, which would likely be my highest number of longlist read before shortlist released.

[Lauren]

Kip wrote: "I have actually managed to get to 22, which would likely be my highest number of longlist read before shortlist released."

Nice work! I'm at 19, but have about 10 more lined up. I hope to get through a few more before the short list is announced.

For those who listen to audiobooks on Hoopla... Can you check if the app is working today? I was listening to the 2 a.m. book this morning but now the screen is just black when I go to the app, so I can't finish the book. I tried closing and restarting the app, updating it, shutting off my phone (I have an iPhone), etc. No other apps have issues and the only other suggestion I found in a search is deleting the app and reinstalling it. I might try that next, but let me know if you're also just seeing a black screen... Thanks!

[NancyJ]

Lauren, mine is working fine. You might want to check with your library. I have another program that I’ve had to reinstall twice already. The initial setup was easy, so I hope reinstallation would be easy too.

[Janet]

I don't hate the word "prosody" but Ben Lerner uses it entirely too much. Three times in The Topeka School! I have only read 8 which would be abysmal except it's a pretty high percentage of the books I actually finished reading this year.

[Karen]

Ugh - "palimpsest" rears its pretentious head again in Tomorrowx3. I will not forgive this usage - it is an affront!

[Kip]

SHORT LIST!

[Phyllis]

The shortlist is out! The shortlist is out! https://themorningnews.org/article/th...

[Jason]

interesting that they went back to putting the NBA and Booker award winners in. Also, two Rooster winners and Anthony Marra who dominated our all-time tournaments this year. I like this list.

[Tim]

Haven't had a chance yet to fully process, but I've read two and DNF'd two (which now I'll have to go back and try again).

Glad we got at least a small chance to talk about =The Torqued Man= here.

I'm in the first quarter of =Checkout 19= but am really enjoying it so far, so will probably finish before I tackle the shortlist proper.

Surprised not to get =Trust=, glad not to get =The Last Chairlift=, and apprehensive about =Manhunt=.

[Risa]

Tim wrote: "Haven't had a chance yet to fully process, but I've read two and DNF'd two (which now I'll have to go back and try again).

Glad we got at least a small chance to talk about =The Torqued Man= here..."

Very bummed about "Trust" not making it. Ah, well.

On "Manhunt", I'll defer to, and live vicariously through, others who take that on. I've not before been a "lurker", so that round will give me an opportunity to see the Commentariat through another vantage point.

I have a LOT of reading to do -- having only read 3 of the shortlist books so far. I consider that great news.

[Phyllis]

I'm exactly halfway - have read 9. Of the others, "Manhunt" is the only one I'd really rather take a pass on. And there 3 others that I would not likely ever get to but for the ToB. It is for sure an interesting 18-book mix they've selected for us.

[Heather]

Well, I did pretty good in my shortlist-competition-for-one I played against myself. I wrote down the 18 books I thought would make it the other day, and I was correct about 11 of them.

I've read 7 thus far. A couple of my favorites made it, and a few more I'm excited to have the motivation to read. And then a couple I'm kind of dreading, but probably less in this category than most years. Overall, I'm pleased.

[Amy]

Joy D wrote: one of my pet peeves....."

I HATE PALIMPSEST! its such an pretentious word and such an AWFUL mouthfeel! It was correctly used in Atkinson's Life After Life as well but still bugged me.

[Amy]

Phyllis wrote: "The shortlist is out! The shortlist is out! https://themorningnews.org/article/th..."

thank you! I'm still only half paying attention cause my kiddo is sick again so it's helpful to have a community on top of these things!