Underground Knowledge — A discussion group discussion
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The Big Bang Theory - Debunked?
Harry wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Harry wrote: "Seeing as the thread's moved on a bit in topic, I thought I'd stick my snout in.Simply: we all know there are tons of contradictions/mistakes in the Holy Bible, whet..."
Harry, can't something simply be eternal though? Why can't it? I agree with Abigail that Jesus was never "created" and simply 'was', same with God and the Holy Ghost. Why can't something be made out of nothing? The world was made out of nothing at the command of the Creator, the all powerful who could do anything.
We as humans must ALWAYS have proof, facts, evidence, scientific proof of everything. We have to know everything and know why everything is the way it is but we live for evidence, hard evidence. But there is evidence of Christ's eternal existence (The Scriptures, yet some say The Scriptures are not valid and are fairy tales for those suckers out there. Those people don't get it though.) but we also need faith. Why can't we as humans have faith even as small as a mustard seed?
Luke 17:6 He replied, “If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it will obey you."
Fay wrote: "Harry wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Harry wrote: "Seeing as the thread's moved on a bit in topic, I thought I'd stick my snout in.Simply: we all know there are tons of contradictions/mistakes in the Ho..."
Fay, you're bringing up points I'm not disagreeing with. I believe in 'god', I just don't believe in religion, but that's just me. I've got faith though- bucket loads of the stuff.
Infinity and God are just different names for the eternal impossibility that I don't deny, and the fact that human beings can't even begin to understand or comprehend nothingness/somethingness/timelessness I feel adds weight to the argument for 'god' whatever that god may be.
Edward wrote: "Harry, is it possible (bad way to start a question as it guarantees a positive response) that the playful dinosaurs instinctively made an upside down and smoothed fractal? It could not be washed aw..."I think I have to perhaps ponder more upon your premise to fully understand it Ed, but fractals are damn interesting.
Harry wrote: "Fay wrote: "Harry wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Harry wrote: "Seeing as the thread's moved on a bit in topic, I thought I'd stick my snout in.Simply: we all know there are tons of contradictions/mistak..."
Okay then.
Sarah, I had to look Pentateuch up as I am not a student of the Bible or the Torah. So Penta is from the Greek meaning "five". The first five books of the Bible or Old Testament which according to your explanation means "God's Law" and that it was written in a literal sense.What I can 't get my head around is that I can make sense of "The Ten Commandments" in the first five books but nothing else seems to be written in a literal sense at all. Maybe that is because the Bible has been translated numerous times. How can we be asked by a God "who loves us all" and has given us free will and the ability to ask questions and be rational thinkers to understand what to me was written for the time in which it was written. Oh, absolutely there are some excellent messages which also apply to today but I would suggest they could be condensed into a much smaller book.
Please don't think I am criticising the view points of others here. Each to his own. I just get truly mystified. To me, it is like hanging on to an old belief like women were designed for the use of men and other such antiquated beliefs.
I do believe in a supreme entity or consciousness that has designed the Universe, but I hold my beliefs and my relationship to that force close to my heart. Science and belief systems are one and the same to me.
Oh, and I don't see the sense of discussing how long a day is on Earth when we are part of the Universe where time alters significantly the further we travel.
I am not as informed as most contributors here so don't take my comments too seriously at least those who don't agree.
I wasn't born with a funny bone, I think, so I would like to say how much I appreciate the humorous commentary here, especially from Edward and Harry. They can say so much and much more succinctly than I within their
funny comments.
Edward wrote: "Harry, is it possible (bad way to start a question as it guarantees a positive response) that the playful dinosaurs instinctively made an upside down and smoothed fractal? It could not be washed aw..."Mr Drobinski, when you write the sequel to the Bible (suggested title THE BIBLE 2: BIGGER BANG FOR YA BUCK) are you gonna make the dinos major characters?
I found this possible correlation between the Book of Genesis and the Big Bang theory: Many biblical literalists imagine they can use the Genesis story as proof against the big bang theory. However, Howard Smith shows in his book Let There Be Light that through actually studying the text and not just reading the translation, one can find an idea similar to the big bang in the root of the Hebrew word "b're'sheet" ("genesis" is a translation of "b're'sheet").
Sarah wrote: "Also, I don't agree with you on the whole Man being formed from the dust thing id ambiguous. Genesis 2:7 specifically says "Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." God just scooped up some dust shaped it into the form of a man and breathed life into him and he was alive. Simple as that; no ambiguity. ..."Yes - as clear as mud to me :)
And I can think of about ten million different ways that can mean something different to the literal interpretation you are making, but other than that there's no ambiguity...
Laureen wrote: "Sarah, I had to look Pentateuch up as I am not a student of the Bible or the Torah. So Penta is from the Greek meaning "five". The first five books of the Bible or Old Testament which according t..."Laureen, you say that the Bible was made for it's time, right? Isn't that kind of saying that the Webster's Dictionary (First published in 1806) was made only for it's time? Only for the 1800's? That it has some excellent messages to it but was made for the people of that time?
Fay wrote: "Laureen wrote: "Sarah, I had to look Pentateuch up as I am not a student of the Bible or the Torah. So Penta is from the Greek meaning "five". The first five books of the Bible or Old Testament w..."Maybe you have inadvertently hit on something. The 1806 dictionary has changed considerably since it was first published. There have been "old" words and their meanings deleted and new words, relevant to our current modern language added.
Krishna wrote: "Fay,circumstances have changed now. Time has changed. So messages also need to be updated."Krishna,
"Time has changed." A great title for an over dramatic YA book about a messed up love triangle.
OR even better, a great title for an over dramatic YA book about a messed up love triangle that includes some sci-fi time travel in it as well.
Remind me to thank you someday for that excellent inspiration in title.
Harry, well the Word in the Bible means Jesus. John 1:1-"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." This is using the Word as Jesus Christ. By the middleman do you mean Jesus or something else? And if you want to know Christ just look in the Bible. You'll find most all of your questions there!
Edward wrote: "Fay wrote: "Krishna wrote: "Fay,circumstances have changed now. Time has changed. So messages also need to be updated."Krishna,
"Time has changed." A great title for an over dramatic YA book abo..."
Edward,
Things Have Changed...
Abigail wrote: "Harry, well the Word in the Bible means Jesus. John 1:1-"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." This is using the Word as Jesus Christ. By the middleman do y..."Abigail,
1) The definition of the Logos is probably one of the most debated things in Christianity. You could be right in your interpretation, but so could so many others.
2) By middleman I meant: dogmatic religion. I prefer the direct line to god.
3) It should be apparent I've read a fair-ish bit about Christ in the Bible and elsewhere. And, yes, I do "find most of my questions there" as you say, unfortunately not so many answers. :)
I'd say about 10% of the 200+ posts in this thread had ANYTHING to do with the Big Bang. 50% had to do with Christianity. 30% with dinosaurs. And the remaining 20% was some crazy-ass shit that was totally meaningless. Unfortunately I contributed mostly to the final 20%! I feel sorry for anyone who reads all this thread with a genuine desire to learn the truth about the Big Bang :)
Harry, the Big Bang is impossible ("because the Bible tells me so"). Or alternatively, it happened a something was created outta nothing (because modern academia tells me so). But the picture I cannot get out of my head is Adam carrying Eve over his shoulder (caveman-like) as he runs as fast as he can to get away from the dinosaur that wants the tasty (forbidden) apple Eve has in her hand ;)
I see you've wisely created a Forbidden History of the Bible threadhttps://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
Hint taken. Let's take the debate over there! That is, if anyone's got the stamina left...
James wrote: "Harry, the Big Bang is impossible ("because the Bible tells me so"). Or alternatively, it happened a something was created outta nothing (because modern academia tells me so). But the picture I ca..."
Er, and what's God again?
James wrote: "I'd say about 10% of the 200+ posts in this thread had ANYTHING to do with the Big Bang. 50% had to do with Christianity. 30% with dinosaurs. And the remaining 20% was some crazy-ass shit that was ..."I liked the 30%.
Edward wrote: "Oh, have you no faith? I'm happy because I do. ..."Oh, I have faith and feel happy also.
James wrote: "Harry, the Big Bang is impossible ("because the Bible tells me so"). Or alternatively, it happened a something was created outta nothing (because modern academia tells me so). But the picture I cannot get out of my head is Adam carrying Eve over his shoulder (caveman-like) as he runs as fast as he can to get away from the dinosaur that wants the tasty (forbidden) apple Eve has in her hand ;) ..."
Speaking of cavemen, where do they fit into the 6,000 year-old Earth picture? Not trying to stir things up further, but just wondering if cavemen came before, after or during the dinosaurs?
Harry wrote: "I see you've wisely created a Forbidden History of the Bible threadhttps://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
Hint taken. Let's take the debate over there! That is, if anyone's got the stamina left......"
Still have the stamina?
Mate, I'm just warming up here...
To quote Marlon Brando from The Last Tango in Paris: "This is a title shot, baby. We are going all the way."
Edward wrote: "Fay wrote: "Edward wrote: "Fay wrote: "Krishna wrote: "Fay,circumstances have changed now. Time has changed. So messages also need to be updated."Krishna,
"Time has changed." A great title for a..."
Okay! I have made up my mind Ed!
The book WILL include time travel, it would obviously make waaaaay more sense than just an over dramatic messed up YA love triangle. Added sci-fi time travel? Perfect.
The book shall be dedicated to Krishna, it is final!
Krishna wrote: "Can anyone try to link all these things up with big bang? I guess it will difficult!"Yes, that's easy Krishna.
After somebody (either from nothingness or somethingness) said the words "Let there be Light", the dinos created Man in their image - however something went wrong in the creation process and Man came out as human not dinosaur...Man then got too full of himself (a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, after all)...Man conjured up acts of scientific faith dreaming up highly imaginative theories like the Big Bang instead of admitting he still didn't have the slightest idea how life began.
Man also slipped into amnesia and forgot that he himself was part of God.
Meanwhile, the dinos had a party in Hell for they were born before the time of Christ (either millions of years before Christ or 4,000 years before depending on who is telling the story) and unfortunately for them were not able to take Jesus into their heart and enter the Kingdom of Heaven. However, the dinos took hope from the scientific theories of Man which said the Big Freeze (sequel to the Big Bang) was coming and it would cool down Hell and make it more pleasant to live in.
Oh, and the mysterious Christ may have been Mithra or a composite character of various Pagan Gods, but nobody cared about that taboo history as it didn't fit in with the (edited) Bible...
Meanwhile, Goodreads author Edward Drobinski kept repeating his brilliant copyrighted phrase "scientific fact until next revision" in the Underground Knowledge group of lost souls...
THE END
Edward wrote: "He created them: male and female, before this then being forgotten and the first female subsequently being made from the lone Adam's rib....Come on Harry. I know that the commentary regarded the ..."
THANKYOU!
Harry wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Harry, well the Word in the Bible means Jesus. John 1:1-"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." This is using the Word as Jesus Christ. By th..."Well, I guess you have to know the difference between religion and God's Word.
Harry wrote: "Is this thread a good analogy for the infinity of thought? Just a thought."You just brought on the deep thinking pains to my brain. Thank you so much Harry. Now my brain has turned to oatmeal with all of this deep thinking.
Krishna wrote: "So what is the difference?"The difference is this:
Religion-practices and traditions are mainly what's important (as you can see with the Pharisees in the Gospels in the Bible or with the Catholic leaders in the time of the renaissance).
The Bible's teaching-Doing things by the Spirit and what God says, not relics or a bunch of rules.
Harry wrote: "Maybe the dinosaurs made the Nazca Lines..."You know what Harry, they probably did. It wouldn't surprise me at this point if they did.
Fay wrote: "Harry wrote: "Maybe the dinosaurs made the Nazca Lines..."You know what Harry, they probably did. It wouldn't surprise me at this point if they did."
Those T-Rexs only had little arms though, so they must have used long pencils.
What if you could build a time machine and travel back to 1 minute BEFORE the Big Bang? What would you see?
Nothing?
If so, could there be something in the nothing?
And were the dinos banished to hell because they drew the Nazca Lines and tried to communicate with the "Old Gods" mentioned in Genesis?
Does that mean you won't join me in my time travel machine, Krishna?
Maybe you writer guys could put a story together in a graphic novel called "Where did the Dinos Go?" James 123 has started well and I love the picture of Dinos with long pencils. Graphic novels are a fun way to get our youth reading and not waste all this imaginative, funny talent displayed here.
What do you reckon James? 'Legend Of The Long Pencilled Dinosaur' by Morcan and Whitewolf?
I'm in However that book title doesn't sound suitable for a children's book...
And besides changing the title to something more PG sounding, my other requirement would be the first scene must be set 1 minute Before the Big Bang...
Ah, you're making something out of nothing...
Can we publish my book, "Time Has Changed" (dedicated to Krishna) with your unsurely titled book about dinosaurs and pencils at the same time? Maybe it could be a package deal or something. The "Big Bang Theory Debunked" book set.
Fay wrote: "Can we publish my book, "Time Has Changed" (dedicated to Krishna) with your unsurely titled book about dinosaurs and pencils at the same time? Maybe it could be a package deal or something. The "Bi..."Let's hope the box set is more coherent than this thread!
Did we ever debunk the Big Bang?
I'm not entirely sure. I think we pretty much debunked it though, sort of.... ish.
What would cause a BANG if there was a first singular entity with no internal or external components? I mean, it takes two to tango, and this needs a partner to interact with.One cannot tango w/o space to stand on. There was no space at the BBT point - else it was not the first entity. Very confusing.
In conclusion: BREAKING HEADLINE!Reporter- Fay
Big Bang Theory is debunked because something cannot interact with nothing and make something. Or as Joseph said, "I mean, it takes two to tango, and this needs a partner to interact with." BAM! WHAT NOW?! (Ha ha, get it you guys? Like, BAM as in BANG! But really it's like the spectacular ending where the reporter just screams BAM in the opposing writer's face cus she won... yeah)
THE END. THAT'S ALL FOLKS! THAT'S ALL SHE WROTE. Just let the story end that the Big Bang Theory is wrong, just do it for the kids.
Joseph wrote: "What would cause a BANG if there was a first singular entity with no internal or external components? I mean, it takes two to tango, and this needs a partner to interact with.One cannot tango w/o space to stand on. There was no space at the BBT point - else it was not the first entity. Very confusing. ..."
I totally agree with all that, Joseph.
For the Big Bang to have occurred from nothing seems like it would have needed to break a scientific law...
I still maintain, you cannot get something from nothing.
Interestingly, Genesis is saved from the BBT conundrum. There is more than theology & philosophy here - it is absolute science. Genesis says everything began with a duality and an external programmer, the ignition key being the verbs CREATED; SAID:HEAVEN & EARTH; LIGHT & DARKNESS; DAY & NIGHT; MAN AND WOMAN CREATED HE THEM.
Thus, even a duality premise requires an external ignition factor. Two tango dancers still need music and someone to click the juke box, no?
And who clicks the juke box? The dinosaurs with their pencils of course!
Fay wrote: "And who clicks the juke box? The dinosaurs with their pencils of course!"Fay, you're some reporter!
More like stirrer...stirring trouble...Same as me :)
Underground Knowledge — A discussion group
Books mentioned in this topic
The First Three Minutes: A Modern View of the Origin of the Universe (other topics)STOPP (Stop the Organized Pill Pushers) Now (other topics)
STOPP (Stop the Organized Pill Pushers) Now (other topics)
Before the Big Bang: The Prehistory of Our Universe (other topics)
The Big Bang Never Happened: A Startling Refutation of the Dominant Theory of the Origin of the Universe (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Richard Dawkins (other topics)Takaaki Musha (other topics)
Simply: we all know there are tons of contradictions/mistakes in the Holy Bible, whether it be: the d..."
Wonderful, Abigail.