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As a Man Grows Older
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As A Man Grows Older by Svevo - December BOTM
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(last edited Nov 25, 2022 08:05AM)
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Nov 24, 2022 08:45AM
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Edited from Wikipedia:Italo Svevo was the pseudonym for our author who was born Aron Hector Schmitz. Svevo was born in 1861 in the Austrian city of Trieste to a Jewish German father and an Italian mother. He was educated in Germany but came home to Trieste in 1880 (by this time Trieste was part of the Austria-Hungary empire) and he studied for two more years there. After his father declared bankruptcy for his once successful glassware business, Svevo became a bank clerk and a business man. He later became a partner in his wealthy father-in-law's paint business and grew the business to be an international concern.
Meanwhile, Svevo contributed to Italian-language socialist publication L'Indipendente, and began writing plays (which he rarely finished) before beginning work on Una vita in 1887. Svevo adhered to a humanistic and democratic socialism which predisposed him to pacifism and to advocate for a European economic union after the war.
Svevo was a close friend of Irish novelist and poet James Joyce. At one point Joyce was tutoring Svevo in English but they became close friends due to their interests in modern literature. Svevo was considered a pioneer of the psychological novel in Italy and is best known for his classic modernist novel La coscienza di Zeno (1923) which is also on the 1001 list. This work had a profound effect on the Italian modernist movement. (Trieste became part of Italy after the first World War).
As a Man Grows Older was published in 1898.
It is late in the day and late in the year...I did not volunteer to host this book but I have finished it now and have come up with a few questions. Other readers should feel free to add their own.
1) The novel lacks much dramatic tension, instead the focus is on psychological analysis and presentation. Did you find this psychological perspective to be engaging enough to hold your interest?
2) The whole of the book takes place in the streets of Trieste and in the small close quarters of our main character's home. Did you get a sense of Trieste in this book? Were the cramped quarters in comparison to Balli's art studio an interesting counterpoint for you?
3) "You are such a loose woman, I am disgusted by you", is an interesting encapsulation of our MC's assumption that he can have a love affair and not pay anything reputation wise for it, but Angiolina can not (in 1898).
4) What did you think about the comparison between Angiolina and Amalia? Angiolina enjoys her life and Amalia does not appear to. Angiolina is quite healthy and Amalia is "grey". What do you think the author is setting up for us in having the two main female characters be so different.
5) Is there a similar comparison between the two male characters, Balli and Emilio?
6) Did you think that Emilio is a reliable narrator?
7) What aspects of this novel would be considered to be "modern" in 1898 and now?
8) Bonus: if you have read Joyce or Proust - how would you describe the similarities and differences between those authors and Svevo?
9) Did you like it and does it belong on the list?
Mod
1) The novel lacks much dramatic tension, instead the focus is on psychological analysis and presentation. Did you find this psychological perspective to be engaging enough to hold your interest?Yes, I thought Emilio was convincing in his obsessive love and his vacillations between wanting to see her and wanting to stop. It was very like reading about a substance-addicted character. I tend to enjoy books like that, and I was certainly engaged, finishing it in two days.
2) The whole of the book takes place in the streets of Trieste and in the small close quarters of our main character's home. Did you get a sense of Trieste in this book? Were the cramped quarters in comparison to Balli's art studio an interesting counterpoint for you?
I actually didn't get much sense of the city itself. Some of the geography came out in their walks, but otherwise I thought it could have been set in virtually any southern European small city or large town - obviously not a big city, because they met people they knew too frequently for that.
I didn't notice the description of Balli's studio, but I do remember the description of the Brentanis' apartment with three rooms where you had to walk through each room to get to the next, so there was very little privacy. They were obviously not wealthy, and his job as an insurance clerk was not exactly aristocratic, and yet there was clearly a huge class divide between the Brentanis and their friends on the one hand, and Angiolina and her friends and neighbours of the tradesman/shopkeeper class on the other - and therefore no question of Emilio marrying her. Yet from our modern perspective it doesn't seem like such a great gulf.
For me there was as much about class differences in this book as there was about gender restrictions.
3) "You are such a loose woman, I am disgusted by you", is an interesting encapsulation of our MC's assumption that he can have a love affair and not pay anything reputation wise for it, but Angiolina can not (in 1898).
Absolutely! At least, she can't until she's married (or engaged with a legal contract). Maybe that arose from the stigma of being an unmarried mother. Looking ahead to the question about Proust, married women in high society in Paris did have quite a lot of freedom in that respect (but not single women). It seems from this book as though the same may have been true in Italy. (I think less so in England by the 19th century - possibly the influence of Protestant ethics and/or Queen Victoria's ideas of morals.)
4) What did you think about the comparison between Angiolina and Amalia? Angiolina enjoys her life and Amalia does not appear to. Angiolina is quite healthy and Amalia is "grey". What do you think the author is setting up for us in having the two main female characters be so different.
Two things: one, that physical attractiveness or the lack of it defined a woman's ability to have any kind of life in that time and place. Two, that middle class women were much more restricted than lower class women.
5) Is there a similar comparison between the two male characters, Balli and Emilio?
Yes in that Balli is more attractive/charming and therefore has more social success. But there's not the class difference between these two.
6) Did you think that Emilio is a reliable narrator?
I didn't question that while reading, but he is very self-absorbed when in the throes of his jealous love, so there's probably a lot he doesn't notice.
7) What aspects of this novel would be considered to be "modern" in 1898 and now?
8) Bonus: if you have read Joyce or Proust - how would you describe the similarities and differences between those authors and Svevo?
Similarities: that they all tend to focus on the inner life of their character(s). Differences: the social milieux and the fact that Joyce's and Proust's characters are more observant of the world and less self-absorbed.
9) Did you like it and does it belong on the list?
Yes I did like it! I'm giving it 4 stars. I think it does belong on the list, if only because Italian authors seem to be under-represented.
Great answers to the questions Rosemary. I particularly appreciated your insights into the class aspects of the book. It seemed as if everyone was "poor", but you are correct that the expectations placed on the various characters aligned with their class rather than their wealth or lack thereof.
1) I am possibly not in the right frame of mind for deep reading at the moment. I struggled with this one.
2) No I didn't get a sense of the town apart from the fact that everyone knew each other and knew each others business. The houses felt small and claustrophobic to me. I got the impression of having to squash yourself against the wall every time a house call was made and someone wanted to go out.
3) I would say to a certain degree this attitude still exists today. Boys who sleep around are just being lads whereas girls are s**ts. For me it all comes back to the female complex of Virgin/Whore the societal attitude is women are one or the other while men never suffer such labelling.
4) Back to my last point virgin Amalia is seen as dull and uninteresting hence the grey colour, she is lonely and makes herself ill because she is not an object of desire and because she shouldn't want to be desired. Angiolina - whore colourful, pretty, free to do what she wants, desirable and doesn't have a reputation to lose.
5) Well for me honestly they were not as interesting as the women and felt pretty interchangeable apart from the fact that Balli is an artist and hence automatically more interesting and appealing.
6) I would always distrust a story from only one viewpoint because it is coloured by their experience and feelings.
7) What aspects of this novel would be considered to be "modern" in 1898 and now?
8) They all write from a male perspective. Proust and Svevo write about memories/obsessions with a girl/woman who may or may not be what they imagine her to be. Joyce and Svevo write wandering narratives largely centred in a small location and focussing on the main characters reaction and feelings.
9) Not particularly and not sure. The themes have been covered in other books on the list but as Rosemary says we do need more international representation on the list.
2) No I didn't get a sense of the town apart from the fact that everyone knew each other and knew each others business. The houses felt small and claustrophobic to me. I got the impression of having to squash yourself against the wall every time a house call was made and someone wanted to go out.
3) I would say to a certain degree this attitude still exists today. Boys who sleep around are just being lads whereas girls are s**ts. For me it all comes back to the female complex of Virgin/Whore the societal attitude is women are one or the other while men never suffer such labelling.
4) Back to my last point virgin Amalia is seen as dull and uninteresting hence the grey colour, she is lonely and makes herself ill because she is not an object of desire and because she shouldn't want to be desired. Angiolina - whore colourful, pretty, free to do what she wants, desirable and doesn't have a reputation to lose.
5) Well for me honestly they were not as interesting as the women and felt pretty interchangeable apart from the fact that Balli is an artist and hence automatically more interesting and appealing.
6) I would always distrust a story from only one viewpoint because it is coloured by their experience and feelings.
7) What aspects of this novel would be considered to be "modern" in 1898 and now?
8) They all write from a male perspective. Proust and Svevo write about memories/obsessions with a girl/woman who may or may not be what they imagine her to be. Joyce and Svevo write wandering narratives largely centred in a small location and focussing on the main characters reaction and feelings.
9) Not particularly and not sure. The themes have been covered in other books on the list but as Rosemary says we do need more international representation on the list.
1. Perhaps it is because I am on a summer holiday but the inner workings of an obsessed mind tended to send me to sleep. I tried to recall the heightened emotions of my young love life to identify with Emilio's obsession, but it was a struggle.2. I have visited Trieste and seen the statue to Svevo in the middle of town (along with Joyce and D'Annunzio) and I did a lot of walking around town, so although I couldn't identify the names of streets, I knew the ramparts of Castello di San Giusto where I fancied Emilio and Angiolina promenaded. Balli's industrial chic art studio was large - like the man - while Emilio's quarters were cramped.
3. I thought that Angiolina was remarkably untroubled by her reputation although she pretended to Emilio that she was. Emilio knew that she was cheating on him and had a reputation as a loose woman but he was so enamoured of her that he refused to acknowledge it.
4. As everyone has remarked it is the dichotomy between the chaste and devoted woman and the whore. Poor Amalia is ugly and is stuck at home caring for her oblivious brother (who doesn't even know where household things are kept) who falls in love with the only man she knows, because he is her brother's friend, but who has no expectation that her romantic fantasy will be fulfilled. Angiolina is enjoying herself with whomsoever she pleases which makes her unbelievable, because why would she waste time on a vacillating idiot like Emilio?
5. Balli seems a likeable character with artistic talent, so I ask the same question - why would he waste his time with Emilio, who does not seem to add anything interesting or amusing to their friendship?
6. Emilio is so self obsessed that the reader does not get a realistic sense of what realy is happening.
7. I think that Angiolina's attitude to sex would have been considered shocking in 1898. The emphasis on every vacillation in Emilio's though processes could be considered quite modern today.
8. Proust concentrates more on sensations than interior dialogues and Joyce much more on the interactions between characters.
Mod
2) The whole of the book takes place in the streets of Trieste and in the small close quarters of our main character's home. Did you get a sense of Trieste in this book? Were the cramped quarters in comparison to Balli's art studio an interesting counterpoint for you? I was really amazed that there was this entry of men into women's bedroom quarters and wearing bedroom clothing when receiving visitors. It all felt so odd, even wrong. I have to admit that I did not note the difference in space from the studio to the homes.
3) "You are such a loose woman, I am disgusted by you", is an interesting encapsulation of our MC's assumption that he can have a love affair and not pay anything reputation wise for it, but Angiolina can not (in 1898). there has been that opinion for years and probably is still there just not expressed. I think if you treat someone like a loose woman then you're also to blame and "what do you expect?"
4) What did you think about the comparison between Angiolina and Amalia? Angiolina enjoys her life and Amalia does not appear to. Angiolina is quite healthy and Amalia is "grey". What do you think the author is setting up for us in having the two main female characters be so different. Angiolina was self directed, stronger and Amalia was a pathetic, wilting female.
5) Is there a similar comparison between the two male characters, Balli and Emilio? Balli is more comfortable with his self and with letting others be equally independent. Emilio has a strong need to control. They probably both control but Emilio takes it all so personally.
6) Did you think that Emilio is a reliable narrator? no narrator is reliable. I found him so annoying.
7) What aspects of this novel would be considered to be "modern" in 1898 and now? The whole scene was quite "modern", imo.
8) Bonus: if you have read Joyce or Proust - how would you describe the similarities and differences between those authors and Svevo?
I enjoyed both Joyce and Proust and I think both of those authors annoyed me less than Svevo was able to annoy me. Perhaps the goal of the author was to create that annoyance and he did it well.
9) Did you like it and does it belong on the list? I am not sure I can say I liked it. I don't think it is the better of his works.
I left this book at home when I left for Florida so will not be able to finish it (and I was so close) until it arrives by snail mail. Darn it!!!
