Bel Ami - Part 1, Ch 1 - 4

[Madge UK]

I expect there are abridged versions which leave out the sexy bits:)

[Hedi]

I received my paper copy of Penguin yesterday, started with chapter 1 and was also absolutely surprised about the difference. Now the book feels like a piece of worthy literature.

Madge, you are right about the sexy bits. ;-). That was completely missing in the description of Duroy in the free copy in iBooks.

Despite my long working hours I will try to read all the chapters and catch up with you by next week.

[Bonnie]

Deborah wrote: "I, too, found a conversation about adultery and blackmail to be very strange in front of a child."

Can anyone, maybe in the Oxford edition with the explanatory notes, figure out what The Gauthier Case is? What people were discussing at dinner with the adultery and blackmail "and whatnot."

[Madge UK]

The 'Gauthier case' is a reference to the book/play by Theophile Gauthier, Mademoiselle de Maupin, based on the true life story of a famous French actress/opera singer, Julie d'Aubigny (1673–1707), a lesbian/bisexual who developed an obsessional love for another woman. Lesbian love was a theme taken up by several French authors of this period and it was often portrayed as being more intense and irrational than heterosexual love - l'amour fou . The preface of the book is lengthy and philosophical and Gauthier goes on to delve deeply into the innermost thoughts and psychological reasons for the bisexual feelings of Mme Maupin, which were the subject of much controversy and dinner table talk, such as we see in Bel Ami. The secondary theme of the novel was the 19C idea of l'art pour l'art, art for art's sake, the philosophy that the intrinsic value of art, and the only 'true' art, is divorced from any didactic, moral or utilitarian function, which was also a dinner party topic of the era.

Those of you who read French well will be able to glean more about 'the Gauthier case' than I with my schoolgirl French can do but I hope this explanation helps.

[Wendel]

Finally started reading Bel-Ami - I hope to post a few comments this week.

The title should not be understood as 'good friend' (that would be 'bon ami'), but as 'handsome/pretty friend'. Used by an adult to describe a grown man, it may even be a bit sly. Like 'cute friend', perhaps?

I checked several french versions, plus the french wiki page, but there seems to be no original subtitle.

[Deborah, Moderator]

Wendel wrote: "Finally started reading Bel-Ami - I hope to post a few comments this week.

The title should not be understood as 'good friend' (that would be 'bon ami'), but as 'handsome/pretty friend'. Used by a..."

Wendel, we look forward to your comments.

[Pip]

Wendel, I think you've hit the nail on the head with the word "sly". Throughout the novel I've been wracking my brains as to how I'd translate "Bel-Ami", especially since some of the ladies start using it as a nickname for Duroy.
"Pretty Boy" in the better of the Gutenberg translations isn't right, too effeminate maybe. I think part of the problem is that, in English, we don't use "friend" so much as a means of addressing someone as they do in Latin-speaking Europe. It would probably be "Good morning, Handsome!" Or "Hello, Lovely!" without the noun.
And then it occurred to me that, as more and more people use it during the novel, the addition of "our" might work. "Our Handsome Friend".
I'm sure Dickens would have approved of that as a title ;-)

[Frances, Moderator]

I actually like the way my translation (Parmee/Penguin) simply leaves it as Bel-Ami. The sense of it as a flattering, somewhat overfamiliar or flirtatious nickname for a charming male friend comes through well. When it is used by a young girl (Laurine) it is rather sweet, suggesting a favourite male friend, but used by a grown woman it leaves a different impression.

[Madge UK]

From my Collins French Dictionary:

Irregular French adjectives:
There are several French adjectives which have irregular feminine and plural forms, as well as a special form when they are placed in front of a masculine noun that begins with a vowel or a mute H:

un bel homme - a handsome man
un vieil ami - an old friend

I would therefore suppose that Maupassant's title meant Handsome Friend.

[Pip]

Frances wrote: "I actually like the way my translation (Parmee/Penguin) simply leaves it as Bel-Ami. The sense of it as a flattering, somewhat overfamiliar or flirtatious nickname for a charming male friend comes..."

Yes, that does seem to be the best option Frances. If in doubt, don't translate!! It also gives more local colour.

[Pip]

MadgeUK wrote: "From my Collins French Dictionary:

Irregular French adjectives:
There are several French adjectives which have irregular feminine and plural forms, as well as a special form when they are placed i..."

All correct, Madge - your schoolgirl French isn't as basic as you made out ;-)
But there's obviously a difference between literal translation and literary translation, as I'm sure I don't need to point out. I don't know if anyone here has ever done literary translations (I have, but Spanish-English, not French) and it's the toughest one to crack.

[Frances, Moderator]

I do think though that there is a double meaning to ami(e) in French, as I believe that "ma petite amie" translates in meaning as " my girlfriend" rather than "my little (female) friend" so that Bel Ami would have more meaning than the literal translation implies.

[Madge UK]

I find it interesting that 'Bel Ami', published in 1885, is the simple title given by Maupassant but the first English translation in 1903 gave it the title 'Bel Ami, or, The History of a Scoundrel', thereby making a value judgement before the book was opened!

It was the young daughter of Mme Charelle who named Duroy 'Bel Ami', which her mother thought was a 'pretty nickname' and said she would use it too. Is a young child likely to call a man she has just met 'a handsome friend'? That seems a bit OTT to me and I think a child would be more likely to mean 'beautiful' which has a more universal, vaguer application. Bel and beau both mean beautiful in French and also mean handsome, good looking, fair. Is handsome a word used by children in France to describe men? Does a young child even know what handsome means? Could it be that Laurine has heard her mother describe her other men friends in this way? Is this Maupassant with tongue in cheek?

[Pip]

I have a feeling that, although Mme de Marelle attributes the naming to Laurine, she was being somewhat disingenuous, and the daughter might actually have picked up the phrase from her mother behind the scenes.

"The child made her appearance, stopped short in amazement, and then ran to Duroy, clapping her hands with pleasure at seeing him, and exclaiming: "Ah! pretty boy."

Madame de Marelle began to laugh. "What! Pretty boy! Laurine has baptized you. It's a nice little nickname for you, and I will call you Pretty-boy, too."

Maybe I'm reading between the lines too much.

I think a child does recognise beauty in people. Beau/bel/belle and their plurals are essentially one word where English has several, not least since we make the distinction between male beauty (handsome) and female beauty (beautiful).

[Pip]

Madge - I was also surprised at that judgemental subtitle where none exists in the original. I wonder why, and when it was first used?

Contemporary readers would mostly have understood French, so adding sauciness to the title probably wouldn't have been necessary when it was first published in English.

[Deborah, Moderator]

I'm using the Penguine Classic edition, and while there is some discussion about the title in the introduction, it's been left throughout as Bel Ami. There is no indication that there was a subtitle.

[Wendel]

Pip wrote: "Contemporary readers would mostly have understood French, so adding sauciness to the title probably wouldn't have been necessary when it was first published in English. ..."

And yet, giving some substance to the untranslated title must be the reason for adding a subtitle. The translation of booktitles is often more a commercial, than a literary, problem!