Quartet in Autumn by Barbara Pym (January 2023)

[Nigeyb]

Having enjoyed this one so much I'm keen to try another book by Barbara Pym



I have the following two books by Barbara Pym...


Less Than Angels

Excellent Women


If anyone fancies a buddy read of either of these then reply below

[Blaine]

I will definitely like a Buddy Read of Excellent Women this year but not before April.

[Nigeyb]

Splendid news Ben - let's make it happen

[WndyJW]

I loved Excellent Women, but I probably won’t be able to squeeze in a reread for April. I’ll definitely join the next Pym group read. A Glass of Blessings was mentioned on the June 2022 episode of the Ourshelves podcast and they speaker felt it was Pym’s best book.

I only have 4 of Pym’s novels, but I will try and get them all.

[Brian E]

WndyJW wrote: "I loved Excellent Women, but I probably won’t be able to squeeze in a reread for April. I’ll definitely join the next Pym group read. A Glass of Blessings was mentioned on the June 2022 episode of the Ourshelves podcast and the speaker felt it was Pym’s best book..."

A Glass of Blessings is only the 7th most popular Pym in the number of Goodreads ratings and at 3.90 is not one of her highest rated ones, although the ratings for Pym's novels are incredibly consistent with 6 of the top 7 ranking between 3.90 and 3.93, the outlier being her 2nd most popular novel, Jane and Prudence ranking at 3.86.

However, the Wikipedia article on Pym, states "In the 1950s she published a series of social comedies, of which the best known are Excellent Women (1952) and A Glass of Blessings (1958)" The article moves on to discuss her 1970s revival and Quartet in Autumn' Booker nom, but it does indicate some renown for A Glass of Blessings.
I went to Wikipedia since I read that Pym had 9 novels and I thought she had more. It appears she had 9 published novels before she died and 4 published afterwards as this list indicates:

Some Tame Gazelle (1950) ISBN 1-55921-264-0
Excellent Women (1952) ISBN 0-452-26730-7
Jane and Prudence (1953) ISBN 1-55921-226-8
Less than Angels (1955) ISBN 1-55921-388-4
A Glass of Blessings (1958) ISBN 1-55921-353-1
No Fond Return of Love (1961) ISBN 1-55921-306-X
Quartet in Autumn (1977) ISBN 0-333-22778-6
The Sweet Dove Died (1978) ISBN 1-55921-301-9
A Few Green Leaves (1980) ISBN 1-55921-228-4
An Unsuitable Attachment (written 1963; published posthumously, 1982) ISBN 0-330-32646-5
Crampton Hodnet (completed circa 1940, published posthumously, 1985) ISBN 1-55921-243-8
An Academic Question (written 1970–72; published posthumously, 1986)
Civil to Strangers (written 1936; published posthumously, 1987)

I've read Excellent Women but would join in a buddy read of other Pym novels that, from perusing their GR blurbs, will likely be more interesting than this one but also may not be as rewarding if they lack the wistful melancholy that made for the pleasant finish of Quartet in Autumn.

[Brian E]

I often like to be reading an author's book on their birthday. As Ms. Pym's birthday, which will be her 110th birthday, is June 2nd, I would propose a buddy read of her first novel:

Some Tame Gazelle for June of 2023, with 2 caveats:

1) If June is the best month for Ben and Nigeyb to host a buddy read of Excellent Women, that gets first dibs:
2) If there is a groundswell of support for a different Pym such as the suggested A Glass of Blessings, I can adapt.

The book title Some Tame Gazelle has fascinated me since I first saw it a few years ago and I think of it whenever I hear a song on the radio by the musician/group Tame Impala.

[Blaine]

I'm very flexible as well. I'm happy to do Excellent Women any time after March.

[Nigeyb]

Thanks all, great to read the enthusiasm


I've scheduled Excellent Women for May 2023

and, as per Brian's request

Some Tame Gazelle for June 2023

See you there

[Kathleen]

I've just started, and while I feel like Wndy that it's my kind of comfort read, I must say the beginning is not very engaging. You all may find Excellent Women much more upbeat. I loved that one.

But as an older person myself (at least in this book's definition!), I think I'll enjoy the slow unfolding going on, and seeing what happens to these four odd office workers.

I forgot how long ago 1977 was!

[Roman Clodia]

With so much enthusiasm here for Pym, I'm wondering if I should try her again - maybe Excellent Women.

[Debra]

Kathleen wrote: "I've just started, and while I feel like Wndy that it's my kind of comfort read, I must say the beginning is not very engaging. You all may find Excellent Women much more upbeat. I loved that one.
..."

I hope you enjoy it, as I did. It's good to hear another favorable review of Excellent Women. I look forward to reading it in May.

[Blaine]

I found my pleasure in Pym’s language, her ability to make meaning out of few words, and her cleverness, made me enjoy the early chapters even as I was impatient with the narrowness of the quartet’s lives and perspectives.

[Nigeyb]

Come on in RC. The water’s lovely 🤠

[WndyJW]

I agree with Kathleen, Excellent Women is more upbeat, but still the wistful single woman, not wistfully longing for a man, but longing for others understand her life has meaning even without a husband and children.

[Kathleen]

This is what I love about Pym. She can be so subtle. Edwin is waiting for a train and sees a magazine cover "which displayed the full naked breasts of young women..." Pym writes his reaction this way: "He supposed that his wife Phyllis had once had breasts but he could not remember that they had been at all like this ..."

It's funny, but more importantly, with that short line, "he supposed his wife Phyllis had once had breasts," Pym doesn't have to tell us anything else about his prior marriage--we can see it perfectly.

[Kathleen]

I finished and agree it is not like other Pym novels. I wasn't sure at first but found the characters did really grow on me and in the end I loved it.

I'm definitely glad I didn't read this before retirement age, but there is much about being this age that she nails. I read that Pym had to leave her job as an editor due to her health before writing this. For many people I've known, that transition into retirement is very difficult, and you can certainly feel the vulnerability and sense of being at a loss in these pages.

[Nigeyb]

Thanks Kathleen


I agree with all your perceptive comments

[Nigeyb]

Nigeyb wrote:



"I've scheduled Excellent Women for May 2023

and, as per Brian's request

Some Tame Gazelle for June 2023

See you there"


My copy of Some Tame Gazelle has arrived 🫶🏻


Looking forward to more Pyms 🥂

[WndyJW]

I’m so glad I found this group! I’m looking forward to more Pym (and Fremlin and Taylor and Highsmith…)

[Judy]

I'm just starting Quartet in Autumn now, a bit belatedly - I got it for Christmas but have so many other books on hand at the moment! Unfortunately the print of my lovely Picador Classic paperback is rather small for my ageing eyes - I may have to invest in a magnifying glass.

I read Some Tame Gazelle recently, so will hopefully remember enough to join in that discussion.

[Judy]

I liked this sharp line in the first chapter - I think you can feel Pym's bitterness at being dropped by her publisher here:

"She had always been an unashamed reader of novels, but if she hoped to find one which reflected her own sort of life she had come to realise that the position of an unmarried, unattached, ageing woman is of no interest whatever to the writer of modern fiction."

[WndyJW]

Oh! Thank you for that insight, Judy. It sure does sound like a dog at publishers. How wrong she and her publisher were, I love stories about unmarried, unattached, ageing women!

[Judy]

I enjoy many books about older women too, WndyJW, and it's good to see that a lot from past decades are being republished.

I was wondering if there was a film of Quartet in Autumn, but I see that it seems nothing by Pym has been filmed at all, which is a pity.

[Judy]

PS I keep wondering if we will find out what kind of office they all work in, but I'm suspecting the answer to that is no.

[Nigeyb]

Not that I recall Judy. I hadn’t thought about that question

[WndyJW]

I kinda thought the work they did was mentioned, but I think I’m just thinking about the library incidents.

[Brian E]

WndyJW wrote: "I kinda thought the work they did was mentioned, but I think I’m just thinking about the library incidents."

I kept waiting for them to mention it and even went back to the beginning to check if I missed it and couldn't find anything. Finally I just accepted that it was info that Pym thought immaterial to the story.
If someone did find a mention of the type of workplace, please let me know what it is, or the page number where the info is at. I'd settle for a cryptic clue.

[Blaine]

I thought part of the plot was that it was somewhat meaningless work for a meaningless company.

At some point Pym observes that there was no need to replace Marcia or Letty and that their whole department would disappear after Norman and Edwin retire and be replaced by a computer. See the paragraph about the speech by the "(acting) deputy assistant director", which is on p.86 of my edition.

[Kathleen]

According to Wikipedia, Pym worked for the scholarly journal "Africa" for 20 years. She was diagnosed with breast cancer in 1971, had a small stroke in 1974 that left her with temporary dyslexia, and retired that year. And I also read somewhere else she was forced to retire because of her health. She finished Quartet in 1976.

So I agree the vagueness was on purpose, and allowed her to maybe put her feelings about her own job, its middle management decision-makers (as Ben points out above), and what it was like to leave it into the story.

20 years of your life is a lot to give to a place, and sometimes when people retire, it feels like it was all meaningless. Here she is free to show that meaninglessness. (Think of how many more books she could have written in those 20 years if it weren't for that job!)

[Nigeyb]

Kathleen wrote:


"I agree the vagueness was on purpose, and allowed her to maybe put her feelings about her own job, its middle management decision-makers (as Ben points out above), and what it was like to leave it into the story.

20 years of your life is a lot to give to a place, and sometimes when people retire, it feels like it was all meaningless. Here she is free to show that meaninglessness"

That's very perceptive Kathleen

Thanks so much

[WndyJW]

Insights like yours, Kathleen, are why reading with a group is useful. I hadn’t/wouldn’t have thought of that.

[Judy]

Some great points here. I agree the vagueness must be deliberate, Kathleen, with so many industries where people have found themselves sidelined and replaced by computers or automated systems - more so since this book was published, so Pym seems to have seen what was coming for many office workers.

I'm getting towards the end now and am finding the tone quite bleak despite the sharp wit. Not sure I agree with the upbeat blurb on the back of the Vintage edition, which says the book is "deliciously, blackly funny and full of obstinate optimism".

[Nigeyb]

There is a bleak tone Judy.


Despite this, I felt I had really got to know all four characters well and, by the end of the novel, was sad to bid them farewell despite none of them being remotely exceptional or charismatic. Something I was impressed by.

[WndyJW]

Not as funny and lighthearted as it says it is.

[Judy]

I agree about getting to know the characters well, Nigeyb - I felt the same and was also sorry to come away from them.

The book brought back memories of the period for me, in particular the milk bottles! I remember being most annoyed when someone (presumably one of my neighbours) left an empty bottle from the "wrong" dairy outside my house in the early 80s. Not sure how I finally got rid of it!

[WndyJW]

That’s funny, Judy!

[Roman Clodia]

Bumping this thread as I'm trying this again, now that I have a bunch of Pyms under my belt.

I love her word placement: Marcia's 'untidy sandwich, bulging with lettuce leaves and slippery slices of tomato'.

Norman's racism and the contrast with bright, cheeky Eulalia is brilliantly done.

And jelly babies! I always bit the head off first as well - do they still exist?

[Nigeyb]

My heart soars to discover you are giving this another go. RC


Definitely my favourite Pym and one that shows another side to her talent (though Excellent Women is also superb)

I love that the four central characters are old and the workplace setting is so brilliantly realised

And the characterisation 👏🏻

I really think this one is a minor masterpiece. I’ve thought about it a lot since finishing it. Definitely one I’d like to return to.

A remarkable novel ❤️‍🔥

[Nigeyb]

And yes. Jelly Babies are still readily available

[Blaine]

Also very happy you’re giving it another try. I thought it was nearly perfect

[Roman Clodia]

Yes, I've clicked with it this time. The undertow of bitterness means it's unlikely to be one of my favorite Pyms but I think it's excellently done in terms of writing, observation and characterisation. It's a rare skill to be able to write about such small lives and pathetic people with warmth, wit and understanding.

'Angry' Norman is exactly how I imagine Telegraph/Mail readers, incensed at everything, from young lovers to disastrous holidays, ranting about 'blacks', and snapping the heads off jelly babies while feeling hard done by when he has to go to the dentist!

[Nigeyb]

I thought they all became increasingly sympathetic


I'll be interested in the extent to which your feelings change (or not) as you read on

[Blaine]

I saw Norman as too small a man for the Torygraph but perhaps the Mail.

[Roman Clodia]

Ben wrote: "I saw Norman as too small a man for the Torygraph but perhaps the Mail."

😆

[Roman Clodia]

Nigeyb wrote: "I thought they all became increasingly sympathetic

I'll be interested in the extent to which your feelings change (or not) as you read on"

I suspect you're just a nicer person than me, Nigeyb!

I have a soft spot for Letty who could almost have been friends with Mildred from Excellent Women, and have sympathy for Marcia with the cancer. But the two men...

Edwin, the churchgoer: 'It was very likely that Marcia would not be neglected, so there was no need to worry about her ... He bought a copy of Reader's Digest and dismissed her from his thoughts.'

Skewered so neatly by Ms Pym.

[Roman Clodia]

I'm amazed that in the 1970s, Edwin is complaining about people with no running water having a TV. And increased godlessness: when did people stop going to church?

[Roman Clodia]

Marcia and her tins and milk bottles! Is there some sad reason for her obsessions or is she a bit dippy?

Also, I wondered what the retirement age was for women in the 1970s?

[Nigeyb]

Keep reading RC, all will be revealed


Retirement age for for women in the 1970s was 60

[Nigeyb]

Church attendance in England


https://whyevolutionistrue.files.word...

[Roman Clodia]

So Marcia and Letty are only in their late 50s - we've noticed before how young people aged in the past and this is another example. Today they'd be doing a fun run and buying faux leather leggings - and hopefully all the happier for it. Pym implies some of it is self-imposed like Marcia's use of old-fashioned harsh and unnatural hair dye.

Gosh, those church stats are startling. The way books talk about church, I always assumed attendance was far higher till about the 1980s.