Crime and Punishment - Week 2 (Part 2, Chapters 1 - 4)

[Gem , Moderator]

In my opinion, the author uses a lot of symbolism for us to explore. Let's consider:

1) Bloodstained socks.

2) Fainting at the police station.

3) Illness.

4) Stolen items.

5) The coin which he throws in the river.

What, if anything, do the above-listed items/issue symbolize? Why? How do these items/issues challenge Raskolnikov's beliefs, if, in fact, they do? What do you think of the author's use of these symbols versus just telling us what Raskolnikov is experiencing? Are the author's use of these symbols effective? Please feel free to elaborate and/or list any other symbols you noticed in this week's reading.

[Hedi]

Gem, I must admit I had not thought about much symbolism when reading these chapters. I was really more in the mind of Raskolnikov and how all would turn out - I was maybe even wondering whether he might grow mad - a little like Lady Macbeth with washing her "bloodstained" hands. We can follow him being afraid of being discovered and being surprised at not having been discovered. Maybe the stolen items and the fear of them being discovered are a little for him like the "bloodstained hands" of Lady Macbeth. After all he does not really know how to get rid of them and on the other hand he has not even looked at them properly.

But now, Gem, you might get my fantasy going.
Raskolnikov was very afraid about his bloodstained socks, as they are evidence for his crime. Without forensics and DNA investigations it might be much harder to prove something by them though. I mean considering how our criminal investigations have changed in the last 30 years... This was ca. 160 years ago.
However, he feels relatively comfortable with them being so dirty. Does that mean that a crime can be hidden or justified by poverty? Having this thought now I have to think of Les Miserables and the reason why Jean Valjean was sentenced to prison labour. He had stolen some bread to survive.
But stealing due to poverty is still something else to murdering...

At the police station I was mostly surprised about his rather arrogant and aggressive behaviour considering the circumstances. On the other hand this might have been a sign of overcompensation for his anxiety. He regretted his behaviour when he recovers from his illness a little later.
As I said, Gem, now you got me thinking. Could his fainting at the police station mean a certain disrespect for/ disbelief in the authorities? But this might be a little farfetched.

Despite his poverty and the immense debts he has accumulated (which are equivalent to 1.25 years of his mother's pension), he is too proud to accept charity. I think that is why he throws the coin into the river. Somehow he will not survive without working and without taking charity. I was surprised that he was not more aggressive when his student friend Razumihin purchased all that stuff for him and spent in the end 10 roubles on it, which correponds then to one month's pension of his mother.

These are some thoughts from my side for now. I am curious what you all were paying attention to, which might get me even more thinking.

Oh, one more thing. What did you think of the discussion about the murders and Raskolnikov's open reasoning how the earrings could have gotten into the room where the painters were? Why does he openly bring the discussion into that direction? Is it to show that the others do not know anything and are not reasonable at all? Or is he afraid that some innocent men might have to take the punishment that is actually meant for him?

[Tom]

I absolutely loved these chapters, and definitely thought more carefully about symbolism that I would have done had Gem not prompted!

I found myself really clarifying in my mind Rosolnikov's idea of the 'Extraordinary Man' - the idea that he can be above the law and some kind of higher being if he commits actions (crimes) for the greater good.

Clearly, Rosolnikov's mind is torn, and has been from the start. He cannot make any decision without going to and fro, often completely changing his mind. His inner monologues show us how contemplating polar opposites, in terms of the outcomes of his decisions, is Rosolnikov's way of justifying (or not) the path towards this Extraordinary Man. The most obvious of these actions in these chapters, perhaps, is how Rosolnikov deals with the stolen items. Of course he justified himself committing the crime on the basis of charity/moral and social righteousness, as well as in order to get some money himself. At no point since leaving the apartment at the scene of the crime, however, does Rosolnikov think about the money or keeping it for himself. He barely even consideres keeping the items that he stole, or even really looking at them! He then goes to-and-fro over what to do with them, eventually hiding them in a disused courtyard.

I think it's something to do with perceived strength too, i.e. he cannot become this person unless he seems reconciled and strong in certain other areas. For example, he seems to crave human contact from Razumihkin, but knows that he ought not; he accepts charity from the Christian lady but immediately decides he must discard it. Is this all Rosolnikov's way of desperately trying to shake off the normal bonds of normal societal behaviour so that he can 'ascend' as it were?

Rosolnikov continues to become more and more unwell; in my view this is a result of his mental turmoil in making these difficult decisions. I am looking forward to seeing which path he decides to go down. It feels to me like he is now on a make-or-break cusp point. If he doesn't go all the way to attaining his extraordinary status, will he die in solitude and confusion?

[Emmeline]

I'm not sure what to say about this section, but I continue to be impressed by the depiction of an unravelling mind -- indeed it is unravelling so fast I'm not sure how it can sustain itself for another 400 pages! I particularly like how there are so many little things for Rasholnikov to keep track of ... the earrings, the frayed trouser bottom, the sock, the hiding place, the axe, the scene at the police station, etc. etc. and how the mental effort of keeping up with them all pushes him closer to the edge.

I'm less enamoured with my translation at the moment. I have the Pevear and Volokhonsky, which I think it excellent for descriptive passages but the dialogue sounds a bit off to my ear, particularly Razumihkin's way of speaking. Not a deal-breaker but I've found them smooth in the past so I was surprised.

[Amy]

I felt like I’ve been watching a ping pong match, watching the polar opposites of Ros way of thinking one extreme way, then the next second the total opposite.
I’m up to Part 2, Chapter 6 and I’ve realized this just isn’t the book for me. It seems to just go on & on and I’m afraid I’m not very interested. I hope the rest of you all enjoy the rest of the book and I will move on to something I enjoy more. Happy reading!

[Chad]

I’m reading along and following the great comments but have not made the time to make my own. Maybe next week. It’s such a fascinating book.

[Ana]

While reading this section I kept thinking that this book may have been written as a cautionary tale to discourage crime.
It is designed to make the reader think: if you commit a crime you will be tormented by guilt and fear of getting caught. Your own thoughts will drive you mad; you may even get physically sick. If you don’t get caught immediately, you will have nightmares and if you talk in your sleep you may give away your crime. Either way, it’s not worth it and you won’t get away with murder. You will pay for it one way or another.

Overall, I think Crime and Punishment is not an easy read.
I believe it’s mostly because I don’t like the main character and so much is centered around him.
I don’t understand why Raskolnikov convinced himself that murder was his only way out of poverty. He had a decent support system - his mother was sending him money, his landlady was patiently waiting for him to pay rent.
I’m almost rooting for him to get caught at this point.

[Detlef]

I am finally catching up with the book. It remains fascinating and (at least in my translation) very readable.
The symbolism (that Gem mentions) is in my mind related to key events that influence Raskolnikov‘s behavior. His mental health is very much at stake in this section. He is on a mental roller coaster ride. He does not have the mind of a common thieve, he is not really out to enrich himself, he keeps throwing or giving money away. His idea about superior beings that should be able to get rid of inferior beings is sorely tested here. That’s why he is behaving so erratically and becomes mentally and physically sick.

[Gem , Moderator]

Detlef wrote: "His mental health is very much at stake in this section.."

To me his mental health has been in question from the get-go.

[Nancy]

I must admit that I had not given any thought to what might be symbolized by each of the items mentioned by Gem. One thing that seems clear to me is that Raskolnikov is suffering extreme guilt, fear of being caught, revulsion at his “justifiable” crime and worsening of his mental illness, despite his belief in his own superiority.