Red Queen (Red Queen, #1) Red Queen discussion


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So do you think Maven is a villain?

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GypsyBookworm Do you think Maven really meant what he said when he said it was all part of the plan, or is he just unwilling to admit that he really likes Mare? I am thinking he does but his pride won't let him admit that. Opinions?


The Writing Reader Oh please it's a love triangle. It was part of the plan, but he still has some feelings for her that we'll see in the future. It's a good book, but when it comes to this stuff all YA books are predictable.


message 3: by GypsyBookworm (last edited Mar 01, 2015 12:12PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

GypsyBookworm Wow. You didn't have to be so rude. If you don't want to discuss this, fine but don't dis my question just because you don't like it.


Supeng I think that with the way Mare is hating on him now... he will have a hard time to convince her that he likes her all along. I shipped him and her tbh too, but that changed when he wanted her killed in the end. If it's really true love, he wouldn't be able to watch that happen in front of him. Just like Warner from Shatter Me series.

Maybe we'll get introduced to a new potential male lead or it's going to be.. Kilorn. I like him and Cal but nah, not feeling them both, haha.


message 5: by Ann (new) - rated it 2 stars

Ann Fernandez I think that Maven just liked the attention. If he truly cared about Mare, he wouldn't send her to execution. I, personally, think she should be all by herself on her Red Throne…That should totally be one of the book titles!


Carly I think that Mare and Maven have 'something' but that it will only be 'something', maybe some flirtatious badboy activity going on but nothing serious... i don't know
Mare and Cal have 'something' at the start but towards the end, their relationship went cold because of all the betrayal and whatnot.

I don't think Mare should end up with any of them. Especially not Kilorn. GOD PLEASE. not Kilorn. There's just something Gale-like about him and I DON'T LIKE IT.

Just...dont....just please...ok?

I think i went way overboard and will probs get hate for some of the opinions i have voiced but ... meh

SUMMARY:
I love Maven. Love his name. Love his personality. Love his 'appearance'. LOVE HIM. Just.. mmm yeah.. haha much love for Maven here *thumbs up*

Cal was super awesome at first and then kinda sucked towards the end.

Kilorn. NO. JUST NO.

Hated the King and Queen as well.


Carly Supeng wrote: "I think that with the way Mare is hating on him now... he will have a hard time to convince her that he likes her all along. I shipped him and her tbh too, but that changed when he wanted her kille..."

hehe Warner *sigh*


Diane Maven acted sweet until the part where he tried to kill her. Being dead kind of breaks up a romance, and I can't see how he could ever be trusted again. Cal was consistent, even if his loyalty was misplaced. Cal & Mare have that bonding thing from fighting together for there lives in the arena, against Maven's friends. Maven will never cross his mother. Since Maven's mother the "queen", killed Cal mother (when she was the Queen), I think Maven & Mom are hopeless if you're thinking of possible mother-in-laws.


Brittain *The Baddest Female* To see this book in black and white terms is doing it a great disservice I think.

Maven is twisted but I do think that he has a heart and despite everything, cares for Mare. I think Cal is too wrapped up in himself and his responsibilities in general and that makes him cold.

Maven has a plan. Nobody else knows it but he has something else brewing besides being a jerk. These characters have depth to them and I can't wait to see where it will lead.


message 10: by Courtney A.K.A The Book Addict (last edited Mar 12, 2015 06:21AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Courtney A.K.A The Book Addict I do think in the end he did have feelings for Mare. But he'd always intended to betray her in the end. And even if he decides to turn hmself around at the end, I seriously doubt that Mare will ever forgive hm for everything he has done. I have a feeling though that he will be the main villain in the next book.

Honestly though, I think that Mare will end up with Cal in the end. Im not surprised that a lot of people prefered Maven over him before it was discovered that Maven was evil. We didn'treally see much of Cal in the first book and most of what we know about him is negtive things that involve his misplaced loyalty and Maven's negative influence of our knowledge of him. So I think the next book we will get to know Cal better. I for one loved Mare and Cal's relationship in the 1st book better than Maven and Mare's. Maven and Mare's was just so typical. I haven't seen a relationship quite like Mare and cal's so I cant wait to see how it will develop.


Jessica Courtney A.K.A The Book Addict wrote: "I do think in the end he did have feelings for Mare. But he'd always intended to betray her in the end. And even if he decides to turn hmself around at the end, I seriously doubt that Mare will eve..."

I agree with the first paragraph, but i do think his mother was controlling him. I might been more on Team Cal in the second book. Then the first book, as we don't see him that much.

As for Maven, i do believe he will be the villain in the second and not fully in the third book as well. Unless he is "killed" by the author. [ I don't know at all.]


message 12: by Courtney A.K.A The Book Addict (last edited Mar 14, 2015 08:56AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Courtney A.K.A The Book Addict Jessica wrote: "Courtney A.K.A The Book Addict wrote: "I do think in the end he did have feelings for Mare. But he'd always intended to betray her in the end. And even if he decides to turn hmself around at the en..."

Yeah, his mother was definitely influencing him but in the end it was always his choice. He always ended up choosing against Mare and Cal. Anyway, like you said he will most likely be the major villain in the next but I have a feeling he might start trying to redeem himself in book three - maybe even to the point where he saves the day. Idk, maybe he does a Darth Vador and sacrifices himself for his brother or Mare or something. Idk. That would mean that there will be a new villain for book three. I wonder who that would be. I guess the Lakelanders king.

Anyway, at this point I can definitely see him able to redeem himself but Im not sure what he will do in the next book. He might just make it harder for himself to find redemption.

I have to say though, Victoria Aveyard has written some pretty awesome and complex characters in this book. I just love it when authors write characters that arent so black and white. It makes them more human and realistic. I especially love what she's done with Maven and Cal.


message 13: by Menna (last edited Mar 28, 2015 07:41AM) (new) - added it

Menna nope he's not the villain and everyone'll see that in the next book just wait and see and yeah he loves mare its painfully obvious its pretty much the one thing i'm sure of atm (that and that mave's not the bad guy) (ps its ya and everything is NOT what it seems haven't you watched wowp ? lol)


Gabrielle If he's not it's going to be very unlikely that Mare will forgive him once she sees him again.


message 15: by Lara (new) - rated it 3 stars

Lara Gabrielle wrote: "If he's not it's going to be very unlikely that Mare will forgive him once she sees him again."

Yeah. I agree.

And sorry to say it, but Maven was just such a wimp through the whole book. If the author develops him more and gives him more guts then I'll be happy. But honestly, all he could do in this one was whine about how bad he had it, and follow along with whatever his mother wanted. He had no backbone whatsoever.

If this changes, then I'm all for liking him. But for now, he's needs to grow up, lol.


message 16: by Ria (new) - rated it 5 stars

Ria Visweswaran Hmmmm... I think Maven will redeem himself at the end but I don't see anyone trusting him ever again. The only way he can every become fully good again is if somehow, he was mind controlled or there was some explanation as to why the actions he made were against his will.


Ilana i'm hoping that Maven will redeem himself, but i wouldn't be at all surprised if he was really as bad as he comes off in the end of this story. i think that we had this safe feeling about him - like he was rooting for Mare and was trying to be very supportive - and i feel like it was in him from the very beginning to try to undermine his brother at some point which is what happened.

i think that we'll see some interesting stuff come about in the next installment though - i feel like there's a lot of different directions that this story could go in, and i'd be really interested to see who's playing which side.


message 18: by [deleted user] (new)

I think thast he likes her, but his pride hates her. She is powerful and beautiful. And she is strong. So yeah, I think he likes her.

But, I believe he is a villian all the same.


kaitie Maven is evil. full stop.

I don't think he should try to redeem himself because Mare won't forgive him. Even if he does it'll be like 'hey sorry for trying to kill you, it was all an act blah blah blah...'
then he'll just betray her again.


Konstantina Menna wrote: "nope he's not the villain and everyone'll see that in the next book just wait and see and yeah he loves mare its painfully obvious its pretty much the one thing i'm sure of atm (that and that mave'..." I really hope he's not the villain and all this happened so that he could double-cross Elara and he was good from the begging but I highly doubt it'll be so. But yeah, he obviously likes her, remember in the Bowl of Bones when he asked Mare to be his Red Queen and all? If anything Maven ever said was true, it's the fact that he loves Mare.


Emily Aldous I believe that Maven is going to be a villain in the novels to come. This saddens me though, because as others said, I totally shipped her and Maven. What many seem to forget about Maven is that he gave Mare the opportunity to become his queen and avoid execution, but she denied him. This shows that he still loves or at least likes her, despite the fact he was going to betray all along. I still have hope for Maven though, because unlike many books I read with Love Triangles, he surprised me at every corner. He's a complex character that has more to him than being the simple villain in this trilogy, yet at the same time he doesn't fit the usual bad boy status that there always is in love triangles. As I said before he is special, and though this may make me seem crazy, (because he killed countless people including his own father, attempted to kill Cal and Mare) I hope him and Mare have more romantic and hate filled scenes between the two of them in the upcoming books. The two of their characters aren't black or white, good or bad. Just as Mare isn't red or silver. They are both, and neither at the same time, and that is why I am rooting for them to overcome their obstacles in the end (or at least humor me with a few romantic scenes.) But, all in all, I believe that Maven is a villain who has the chance of redemption and becoming a hero. He has the capability of both (as we've seen,) and I believe in the upcoming novels he will dominantly be seen as a villain (because Mare is the narrator,) but he will have scenes that show that he is just an unloved boy he lost everything to his brother and is trying in any way necessary to be seen. I have hope, that Maven will at least do one merciful or kind thing for another character that will help me as a reader interest and invested in his character.

Note~ I only read the Red Queen, so if my opinion is totally wrong (because I haven't yet gotten my hands on the sequel,) I just ask that you kindly tell me I'm wrong.


Konstantina Well, actually it will be 4 books and in book 3 we'll have 2 povs, and hopefully it will be Maven and Mare because he truly is a complex and interesting character to read about, as much a l hate him.


Melissa I would say yes he is a villain but his mom is way more of a villian then Maven. I think he could be persuaded to stop doing bad things as long as his mom isn't around.


Itz_Gabi I admit that Maven might have something for Mare, but nevertheless, he shows it in an extremely disturbing and creepy way. For example, you do NOT put someone in a dome with your OWN BROTHER and watch them being killed while smiling creepily/enjoying it. Two, all this about being a plan... I know his mother has much power over him, but he still goes ahead and hurts Mare and KILLS those with the mutation to get her. Honestly, I'm more of a Cal fan but, then again, they've done so much against each other that their relationship is strained. Unless Maven has a turning point and fight back his mother and treats Mare better then he might be able to be forgiven. So, yes, I do think Maven is a villain, but so his mother (probably his mother more in a way).

And finally... Victoria Aveyard, what are you doing to us! D:


message 25: by Booklover2000 (new)

Booklover2000 I think Mare should NOT end up with Maven, well at first I wanted them to end up together but I always suspected that something was wrong with him. I mean he was too perfect I mean seriously he was to good. Now at the end I Mare will NOT end up with him since he tried to KILL her, I think he was only useing her as part of his plan with his mother. That he didn't plan on falling in "love" if we could call it that. But I think that he is more obsessed with her becuase his brother "loves" her. And he is trying to prove that he can and will try to take everything his brother "loves". Besides Mare would never love him of trust him again. And even if Mare did go back with him what woukd the queen say. But I must say the queen holds his leash not his heart.

Now with Cal am not so sure their relotion ship is complicated. He is to cold, but I won't juge since he was bearly in the 1 book I will wait to see what the 2 book has is store for us. But they do make a good team.

Now I think that Kilorn might love Mare but I doubt that Mare loves him that way. I mean Mare does love him but in a brotherly kind of way. Kilorn is a nice dude and all but I just don't see a future for them.And even if Victoria A. did put them together I would not agree with that. I mean I do like Kilron a lot but not as Mare's couple.

My conclusion:

Maven: Total idiot & a total jerk must NOT endup with Mare.

Cal: To cold for Mare, I don't see a future since thay don't trust eachother.

Kilron: It would be very weird if they ended up together they he is more like her brother than boyfriend.

I think Mare should just stay single and conqure the kigdom by her self, and rule on her own.

Extra :)
My reaction when Maven found out about the kiss.

"God that must have been very weird poor Mare"


message 26: by Booklover2000 (new)

Booklover2000 Am open to hear other opinions.


Alison Avery I have only read the first book so far, and it seems to me that Maven might not end up being a villain. After his plot was revealed, he started acting differently (more like a villain). But then there were some moments were he started acting like the boy he used to be, implying that he never really wanted any of this to happen.


message 28: by Alison (last edited Feb 07, 2018 07:38PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Alison Avery My prediction for the rest of the series is that Maven actually didn't want to kill the king and take over the crown. Then, in a critical moment, he will betray Elara to save Mare, proving that he does actually love her. Then he will die a horrible painful death, allowing Mare to end up with Cal. I have no idea where Kilorn fits into this though.


Konstantina Alison wrote: "I have only read the first book so far, and it seems to me that Maven might not end up being a villain. After his plot was revealed, he started acting differently (more like a villain). But then th..."

oh to be innocent and have only read the first book.. I won't spoil a thing but. he really is a horrible person. It is quite sad..


Konstantina Kilorn will probably end up with Mare I think. He just seems like he will. I feel like Mare will be like "nah i don't want no prince i barely know him" and she'll go for Kilorn and they'll be happy.. I can't say I ship it, but it seems likely


Mandy Brittain *The Baddest Female* wrote: "To see this book in black and white terms is doing it a great disservice I think.

Maven is twisted but I do think that he has a heart and despite everything, cares for Mare. I think Cal is too wr..."


yessss :)) well said :)


Vikasini Nooooooo! he was just extremely influenced by his mother who was practically controlling his mind sooooooo what do you expect?? and i know he tecnecally killed his father but what kinda person had them strenght to go against his mother???

so he is not evil he just needs some guidenece but that guidence WILL NOT be from mare because its TEAM CAL FFFOOORRREEEVVVEEERRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Violet No, I don't think Maven's a villain. I mean, it's not like he chose to be like this, it was his mother's influence that turned him into a cruel man (Does he count as a man or should I say teen?). That and him feeling overshadowed by Cal, which just made it easier for his mother to manipulate him.


Natalie Keep in mind I'm only on kings cage- Maven is a villain, plain and simple. Yes, he's had a horrible, scaring life that's broken him, but that does not give him a free pass to do as he likes. You can't do whatever you want to other just because other have done that to you. Look at Mare, she's been through a lot, and she has changed for worse, but she still holds on to being good and to what is right. She doesn't always act kindly, but at least she sticks to what's right. Maven needs to see that he has no right to make the world of others like his own just because he's had a harder life.


Melissa It's interesting to see the perspectives of the readers still on Book One, and to see Maven as just 'misguided'. It reminds me a lot about the current state of the world, and how these terrible things keep happening but when we look to the person who caused the injustice we say: 'Oh, he had a hard life, he struggled, he was lonely,' etc. Keep in mind, I've finished the series. I can see Maven's potential in still carrying a small light for Mare but it's of an obsessive and possessive nature and harmful to them both. Maven may have been stripped of his humanity by his mother, and I empathize that he had limited choices afterward, but he is still a villain. There are many other characters in the book who have suffered, Mare and Cameron for example, they did not lose themselves to this, whereas Maven did.


Red_Queen_Lover Ummmmmm............. yes? No?? I honestly think that what he's doing to Mare is awful and what he's doing to all of Norta tbh. It's just I don't know if I could consider him a "villain". I just think of him as a boy who has a few problems. (I don't know why I'm defending him even though I'm not team Maven)


message 37: by Roe (new) - rated it 4 stars

Roe Brackey In my opinion, I think that he's not making the best choices and he is the villain. But I feel like if Mare would have stayed with him it wouldn't have been this bad. She would have been able to figure out how to control him.


eliot Roe wrote: "In my opinion, I think that he's not making the best choices and he is the villain. But I feel like if Mare would have stayed with him it wouldn't have been this bad. She would have been able to fi..."

hes far too manipulative and far-scheming to ever be appropriate to date anyone.
cal is willing to do the wrong thing to not break tradition. so thats a big fat NO also.
kiloourn is too jealous and silly. she needs to be an explorer and ambassador to the other lands and just give up on men for at least ten years when they all stop being bad choices. lol


Emilie Knoth Maven is the villain in Mare's and Cal's life, and for me he is the main antogonist of the RedQueen-series. But that doesn't take away from him also being a victim. Someone who has loved and lost, and been loved and who is lost. Maven is a well-rounded character. He is good and he is bad. Which makes him real.


Sarah.H.L Hard question, but of corse he is, but I think that deep in his heart-- beneith all the twisted messed up parts-- he still craves power like Cal but also he loves Mare more than she thinks she knows. So no, I don't think Maven is a villan. Elara is.


message 41: by Hannah (new) - added it

Hannah I think that Maven is not capable of loving anyone. Elara took that part of him away and while he may be obsessed with her and even think he loves her he doesn't, he can't. He proves this when he betrays her. If he really loved her he never would have done that he would never have hurt her if he actually loved her. Maven is the villain. While he is a villain because of Elara which makes her one too, he is as well. He is not misunderstood or anything else. He is evil and his actions show that. He manipulated Mare and Cal and that in itself shows that he is evil. He knew what he was doing when he made Mare trust him when he hid his true self from her, he was doing that just so he could betray her in the end. So, no I don't think that Maven is a good person for Mare or a good person at all.


message 42: by Rain (new) - rated it 3 stars

Rain villain — n. a character whose evil actions or motives are important to the plot

Although Maven is written as the villain of Mare's story, I feel like it is not entirely his fault.

As reader's discover in King's Cage, most of Maven's emotions and tendencies were shaped by Elara. Even though it clearly presented that he has an undeniable attraction towards Mare, it is not exactly love; even though his actions are misplaced, his intentions to him were justified, even though to others they come across as cruel and unkind. Which therefore leads to answering the question: Is Maven a villain?

Yes, I believe Maven is indeed a villain. Even though he arguably has some good characteristics about him and some reader's cannot help but to root for him, morally nothing can justify all the terrible things he did to Mare. Albeit, it is not entirely his fault for his actions since the greater part of his life was conducted under someone else's influence, but in the end his decisions were his own. As defined above, a villain helps aid the plot with their evil intents. While that wasn't purely Maven's role in the series, it was for the greater part the main source of conflict and evil.


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