21st Century Literature discussion
10/22 The Idiot
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The Idiot - Part I
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Hee hee, Selin's experience felt very real, though, since my parallel experience happened half a century ago, I couldn't speak to the details. Since Batuman is basically novelizing her experience from a distance of more than a decade, she has a fair amount of flexibility to view her younger self in an ironic light. I felt like I'd like to give that poor self-tortured Selin a hug.
I think you are right Mark that she could use a hug!
I read this when it came out and chose not to reread, but am finding the questions interesting. I found I could see the novel as lightly satiric but I could also wholly dimiss thoughts of satire since Batuman expertly captures the passive naiveté of the young student who doesn't know it all and isn't worldly beyond her time. It is that innocence that has stuck with me since I read it and the only reason, I haven't picked up the sequel is that I don't want the original sense of Selin spoiled by a different characterization.
The sequel is in the same vein Sam, it won't erase this book (or The Possesed). Selin does grow up, a little. Yes, she doesn't know it all, but she thinks, because of her earlier academic success (hey, she's in Harvard!) that she does.
Mark wrote: "The sequel is in the same vein Sam, it won't erase this book (or The Possesed). Selin does grow up, a little. Yes, she doesn't know it all, but she thinks, because of her earlier academic success (..."That is good to hear Mark. Now I have to make room for it on the tbr. I have to reiterate, I really like the Selin, Batuman gave us in The Idiot. The character has grown in my mind over time.
In 1995 I was 25 years from freshman year in college, and I did not relate to the description of classes and schedules and how one got into a class, hence my considering it satirical. Selin as a person, however, seems real enough. I doubt she would have been as naive in 2022, though. Do you think the author chose 1995 as email and Internet were just making their entrance to daily life so she could have Selin be that naive?
Intersting question Linda. I haven't seen a classroom in some time either but I thought innocence was from a lack of experience which probably stemmed from her shy and reserved character type and compounded by her being sheltered as a second generation immigrant. I think the satire is there but it is more smile producing rather than the heavy handed laugh out loud stuff I think of when we talk of satire. If a student is sheltered and inward, I think that the first year of college, could very much still be similar to Selin's experience. That does not mean it can't be looked at satirically after the fact though which may be what Batumsn is doing.
Selin's first year felt familiar in many ways. Mostly discovering new ways of thinking about things like language and "constructed worlds." I did feel some of Bautman's descriptions were tedious at times. Appreciated the irony and light satire when it appeared.
Ellen wrote: "Selin's first year felt familiar in many ways. Mostly discovering new ways of thinking about things like language and "constructed worlds." I did feel some of Bautman's descriptions were tedious at..."The first time I read this I just raced through it but this time I'm bogged down in the middle and finding the obsession with Ivan really tiresome. Although it's also reminiscent of a certain kind of student relationship. I prefer the elements around language and Turkish culture and identity.
The ambiguity of the e-mail relationship that developed between Selin and Ivan did, I think, demonstrate the difficulty of conveying meaning using only written language. I think the relationship itself consumed a lot of time that could have been more productively spent, especially for the reader. In the Part II thread, Sam provides a Turkish review that is an interesting look at the book that focuses on the elements Alwynne that you note. I found it helpful.
It's really quite hard to write personal emails and be sure that you eliminate ambiguity. At least compared with face-to-face discussion there's immediate feedback and if the reaction, facial expression or body language is negative or puzzled in any way then any issue/misunderstanding can be immediately clarified. it's probably not surprising that Selin becomes misled by emails.It is just as strange that Selin expresses her love for Ivan in an email, and he fails to adequately respond to this in any way. No wonder he seems to be leading her on (whether or not) he did it intentionally.
I am having trouble getting "in" to this one. A lot of her first year feels familiar to me (though mine was decades ago) but it is not grabbing me yet. I'm going to keep going, for now.
Erika, I am enjoying the discussion more than the actual reading.
JAMES- remember this was a time when email was New for everyone. Selin is fighting her naivete at the same time as both she and Ivan are figuring out the medium.
Mark wrote: "JAMES- remember this was a time when email was New for everyone. Selin is fighting her naivete at the same time as both she and Ivan are figuring out the medium."Absolutely! It's a bit like me figuring out this medium. :)
Who experienced the beginning of e-mail? Did Selin's experience mimic your own? My beginning, as with the Internet itself, was through work and I used my work e-mail for everything until I retired. I did have a personal e-mail that laid dormant for many years.
A good reminder. Tone is an important part of a conversation and I can't count the number of times I have gotten the tone wrong in an email I have received. Ivan and Selin have a few hurdles to overcome in teasing out the meaning of their emails to one another.
Do you think the author portrayed a typical first year college experience or was she being a somewhat satirical?
What about Selin's relationship with Ivan - is he putting her on or are we just seeing her naivety?
Anyone remember their first college roommate(s)?
What impressions did Part I of the book make on you?