The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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There Are More Things
The Goldsmiths Prize
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2022 Goldsmiths shortlist - There Are More Things
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Hugh, Active moderator
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Oct 05, 2022 12:52PM
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There Are More Things by Yara Rodrigues Fowler (Fleet)
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On that outstanding Orwell Prize shortlist
Was this the one you failed to mention as part of our annual tradition.
Yes absolutely. Proud to keep that record up.
I’m eager to understand the Mel’s boss reference.
464 pages. Seriously. Does the author not read the Spectator?
Feels a very topical book - given the election results over the weekend.
Her debut really did not work for me, I appear to have given it two stars plus one support star for a young debut novelist. That was 400 pages too but had a lot of short vignettes and a lot of white space. Don’t know how it is with this one.
FWIW any review of this observed … This is the author’s second novel after the intriguing debut novel 2019 “Stubborn Archivist” which as well as various book prize recognitions (Dylan Thomas longlist, Desmond Elliott shortlist, Observer Debut Novelists feature, Sunday Times Young Writer of the Year shortlist) also contributed to her recognition by the FT as one of the “planet’s 30 most exciting young people” across art, books, music, tech and politics – the political angle also recognising her activism and her involvement in boosting the youth vote in the 2017 General Election via the use of a bot on Tinder which encouraged voter registration and tactical anti-Conservative voting.
(For a different take on the ethics of the latter – see https://www.wired.co.uk/article/tinde...)
The author’s first book had a distinct style – one that was on one level experimental but in a way which was far less conscious and more natural than much experimental literary fiction. Non-chronological, copious blank space, a mix of first/second/third person, of different points of view, of conventional prose and fragmentary prose poetry, and perhaps most distinctly in the way the text switched in a natural flowing way from English to occasional and typically untranslated Portugese. It was also a book which aimed at lightness and avoiding the “oppresive weight of the [linear. Realist] British novel” but where I felt the lightness, and the sense of a debut novel searching for a narrative voice was perhaps a weakness.
This book I believe has exactly what one looks for (but so often does not find) in a second novel – something which retains the distinctiveness and strengths of the author’s debut novel (perhaps a little less switch of person, and a more obvious chronological signposting but with more developed use of Portuguese) but adds a greater conviction of touch and a weightier and more purposeful story to make for a really strong and accomplished read.
It really sounds like a step-up from the debut then. Should give it a go for sure.
Well I felt so but others may disagree.
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There is an Author’s Note at the back with list of things that “did really happen”.One of the first reads:
In 2010 the Labour Party proposed a bill to raise university tuition fees from £3000/year to £6000-9000/year. This sparked mass protests across the UK. However, the bill passed and came into effect in 2011.
Am I misremembering? Labour set up the Browne report that looked at student fees, but the report didn’t come out till after the 2010 election. The new Coalition government proposed the increase in min fee to 6,000 and cap increase to 9,000 (Browne’s report actually recommended that fees were uncapped), and Labour voted against it.
Also odd coincidence to get to page 46 and see council workers in a park in Mile End planting bulbs - that’s what I (and my team at work) spent Friday doing.
I think you will work out if you have not already Paul that the author and her characters consider New Labour an extreme right wing party - so I don’t think she would distinguish them from the Coalition government.
Yes I have to say that this is definitely falling into the dislikable characters bucket for me as someone who think Boris was a bit of a lefty. That link you posted below is quite eye opening. I think many assume social media manipulation of elections in favour of Putin apologists is a right wing US thing, not a left wing UK one.
It is raising some interesting questions for me though on a topic I always find fascinating - the morality of political protest outside of the democratic system. In one sense it is undemocractic - one person one vote means your opinion shouldn’t be any louder because you shout louder. On the other hand
- as one of the characters says, firms and economic actors get things done via quiet lobbying and protest gives the voiceless a voice (eg I am having dinner with a senior recent ex cabinet minister tonight)
- in reality much social change comes this way first only then the ballot box.
But then how about protests like, say, marching on the Capitol because you believe an election was manipulated?
This line on the Dilma impeachment was a good one, from the Brazilian character to some Brits. As that is exactly what the stop Brexit campaign did - tried to overturn a democratic decision by technical means:
Their motivations are political - a technicality is not a reason to remove a democratically elected president. You would not countenance such a thing here
If this is political I have zero interest. I live in a constant state of low key anxiety about the future of so-called liberal democracies as it is.
In what sense was Boris Johnson a lefty? I mean that as a sincere question.I have doubts that anyone marched on the US capitol because they genuinely thought the election was manipulated. They just didn't like the results.
David wrote: "In what sense was Boris Johnson a lefty? I mean that as a sincere question."He wasn't and isn't!
Well Johnsononmics in terms of public spending on Covid furlough schemes and printing money to fund it we’re ironically rather closer to the Labour party’s policy than his own stated economic views. Although there was a once in several generations pandemic.
It was a bit of a glib remark though in terms of my views - although it was the view of much of his party.
And David my point is the attempt to overturn Brexit here was largely not liking the result. And would Democrats really resist an opportunity to impeach Trump if it came along?
Wendy this is I think a very political book although more about the need to be politically active.
Personally, I'd see that more as BJ's complete lack of integrity or ability to hold to any kind of conviction, and his almost psychotic need to be seen to be popular and liked. I like the sound of this book.
Roman Clodia wrote: "Personally, I'd see that more as BJ's complete lack of integrity or ability to hold to any kind of conviction, and his almost psychotic need to be seen to be popular and liked. I like the sound o..."
Absolutely R. C. although compared to the current cabal he's positively socialist!
The second greatest PM of UK since WW2for me, but I do seem to be in a minority in that view.Which means I am not exactly enjoying this book.
A minority of one, perhaps? On paper this should probably appeal but I read an extract and wasn't keen, so will await your review.
So far this is getting bogged down on South London school day remembrance - then me, and Shaz and Jess smoked a spliff on the 57 bus type stuff.
I would never have had the courage to do that on the 53 which is the bus route through South London I remember most, so sounds as if this will just make me think my wasted youth wasn't sufficiently wasted!As for the majority, those were the heady days of yore, when a rippling shock of blonde hair, and an OE accent could seem like the keys to fame and wealth beyond the dreams of avarice...
Although I'd love to know what happened to the wallpaper.
The true sign of a properly misspent youth is of course trashing a restaurant (then getting daddy to send a cheque to cover damages) or getting intimately acquainted with a pig’s head. Or running through a field of wheat.
On the wallpaper Liz was pretty clear - on the grounds the money had been spent she has left it up.
Two 57 buses have just driven past me in either direction. This novel is oddly geographically resonant at the same time as it is politically alienating.
Yeah, the teenage section is quite a let down after the really strong beginning. Hopefully it'll pick up.
Paul wrote: "The true sign of a properly misspent youth is of course trashing a restaurant (then getting daddy to send a cheque to cover damages) or getting intimately acquainted with a pig’s head. Or running..."
I'd forgotten May's wheat fields! But not alas the pig.
Actually given the discussion on Diego Garcia the main character has just started at an East London Uni that may well be, or based on, Goldsmiths. And all the fresher week events are in “Dalston, Horton and Shoreditch”.Although here I think this is heading to more of a conclusion of get out of that bubble and get on the streets.
Paul wrote: "Actually given the discussion on Diego Garcia the main character has just started at an East London Uni that may well be, or based on, Goldsmiths. And all the fresher week events are in “Dalston, H..."Possibly although quite likely UEL given the locations. There are strong links between the more politically minded/left-wing academics at UEL and Goldsmiths, Jeremy Gilbert at UEL, for example, close to Mark Fisher when he was at Goldsmiths, and there are political discussion groups made up of academics from these and other universities in London.
May well be UEL. I know East England universities rather better than East London.
Paul wrote: "May well be UEL. I know East England universities rather better than East London."Although it looks as if she was at Oxford and post-grad UCL:
https://ucl.academia.edu/YaraRodrigue...
Yep, Oxford English degree than post-grad UCL, so presumably not totally autobiographical?
The parts in Brazil are where this takes off I think.
Hopefully as so far it is very tedious.
My order of this was abruptly cancelled due to lack of availability. It must be the Goldsmiths bump.
130 pages in and I think I agree with Paul - it’s not very exciting yet. I also feel I am missing stuff because I don’t know London.
I should explain that last comment. Most books I read are about places I don’t know very well but somehow this one is making me feel that that is failing on my part.
Neil wrote: "I should explain that last comment. Most books I read are about places I don’t know very well but somehow this one is making me feel that that is failing on my part."Couldn't it just as easily be the novel? We all read translated fiction that is based in places we've never been, or historical settings we can't ever visit, and yet manage to get a lot out of it
Yes, agreed. Like most of us, I normally love reading about places I haven’t been to or could never go to - it’s one of the joys of reading. But the London stuff here is putting me off the book instead.
Indeed. There's too much of very local stuff, which is supposed to mean something (class difference?) but it's rarely clearly stated and it's mostly lost to non-Londoners.
Based on these comments, I'm surprised to see this book on the Goldsmiths shortlist. Political fiction, yes. But it doesn't sound innovative to me.
There are poems. And lots of white space.
Well the Goldsmiths does love London set books. And it is very resonant for Londoners, as mentioned I’ve been to both a park in Mile End and walked past 57 buses in the last week.
Oddly though haven’t been on any anti Tory or Brexit marches but had dinner with a senior recently-ex Conservative cabinet minister last night instead. So the politics isn’t working so well for me.
I'm currently reading another novel that, from the sound of things, overlaps with this one so makes it less likely I'll try it, An Experiment in Leisure by Anna Glendenning who was an editor at And Other Stories and has connections to The White Review. Similar themes around place, class, politics.
The Mookse and the Gripes
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An Experiment in Leisure (other topics)
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