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[2023] Poll 16 Voting
Nadine in NY wrote: "Joy D wrote: "I think in general it does women a disservice by planting the idea that romance is the be-all and end-all in life. The HEA endings are just so unrealistic...."I think you are disco..."
Hear hear!
I am not typically a romance reader. (I do not need all the behind-the-door details. My imagination works just fine!) :)I could heartily recommend Andrea Penrose's Wrexford & Sloane series. The first book doesn't include much that I would term "romancy" but the further books in the series do. But these books are much much more than JUST romance which is why they appeal to me. I really enjoy her writing.
My problem with romance novels is that they are, for the most part, heteronormative. Lesbian romances all seem to be published by indie presses or self published or whatever and the quality of writing is simply wretched. It is almost impossible to find a lesbian romance novel that is published by a reputable publishing house.ETA Yes, there are some great novels that have lesbian relationships. But in this context I am talking about novels that fit into the romance GENRE. Big difference, imo.
dalex wrote: "My problem with romance novels is that they are, for the most part, heteronormative. Lesbian romances all seem to be published by indie presses or self published or whatever and the quality of writing is simply wretched. It is almost impossible to find a lesbian romance novel that is published by a reputable publishing house.ETA Yes, there are some great novels that have lesbian relationships. But in this context I am talking about novels that fit into the romance GENRE. Big difference, imo.."
Ah, I better understand your search now. I would agree that I have yet to discover a lesbian romance that I felt was well-written. I've read all of 2...so that is certainly not a huge sample...
I will ask a couple of my friends who read lesbian romance if they might have any recommendations.
dalex wrote: "My problem with romance novels is that they are, for the most part, heteronormative. Lesbian romances all seem to be published by indie presses or self published or whatever and the quality of writ..."I've noticed that some of the big publishers have started to acquire more lgbtq+ romances.
Harlequin romance has it's own page. Maybe this will help.
https://www.harlequin.com/shop/pages/...
If you don’t mind a steampunk setting Gail Carrier’s Romancing the Inventor is a lesbian romance with actual editing and publication standards
Nadine in NY wrote: "Joy D wrote: "I think in general it does women a disservice by planting the idea that romance is the be-all and end-all in life. The HEA endings are just so unrealistic...."I think you are disco..."
Very strongly agreed. Especially on the fact that this is only a criticism that seems to apply to women. Men can read the most outrageous action novels possible (there's nothing wrong with that! I love a good trashy action novel too!), and nobody worries about their poor minds.
Also, are HEA endings all that unrealistic? Yeah, real life isn't always rainbows and sunshine, but I know plenty of people who are happy at least most of the time.
Mandy wrote: "Harlequin romance has it's own page.https://www.harlequin.com/shop/pages/..."
The large percentage of those are gay, not lesbian. Of the few that are lesbian, the protags seem to be in their 20s so the intended audience is most likely the same. So, of that whole page of about 50 books there are maybe two that I could consider reading.
Lynn wrote: "I will ask a couple of my friends who read lesbian romance if they might have any recommendations."Thanks!
dalex wrote: "My problem with romance novels is that they are, for the most part, heteronormative. Lesbian romances all seem to be published by indie presses or self published or whatever and the quality of writ..."Yes, they are in the minority, but more and more are being published now. Most of the lesbian romance that I read are YA romance, so I haven't read most of these:
Written in the Stars & Count Your Lucky Stars
Mrs. Martin’s Incomparable Adventure
A Little Light Mischief
Read Between the Lines & No Rings Attached
The Lady's Guide to Celestial Mechanics (tbh I didn't really like this one) & The Care and Feeding of Waspish Widows & The Hellion's Waltz
Seasons of Love - maybe an indie
So, I mean, they are out there. There aren't a lot of them, but you can find them. You just have to like romance enough to search for them.
@dalex, I liked One Last Stop by Casey McQuiston. I don’t know anything about publishers, but I’d say she’s pretty popular. I actually like romances. I actually love the cheesy ones, but I also like Hallmark movies. That said, I’ve definitely read less cheesy ones and when I’m back at my computer could recommend a few.
Finally, I’m also highly uncomfortable by book sex scenes. I think it’s because I’ve always had a good imagination when reading books. So when I read sex scenes, I almost feel like I’m in the room with them and I’m some creepy person watching. So I just flip through those pages, flip flip flip. And enjoy the rest of the book!
Siobhan wrote: "Also, are HEA endings all that unrealistic? Yeah, real life isn't always rainbows and sunshine, but I know plenty of people who are happy at least most of the time..."Romances rarely go into the details of the HEA so I don't understand the argument that they're totally unrealistic representations of relationships. It's about the falling in love stage, not the "you haven't put the bins out" stage.
Yeah, you get things like twenty-somethings getting a top NASA job or people talking to ghosts, but the cute love bits are perfectly believable.
Mandy wrote: " Hopefully, someone puts something on the listopia that is not a someone done me wrong... "Alicia wrote: "I agree Backman is definitely literary fiction, especially with dalex’s definitions. But also not miserable, sad endings. Great/happy things aren’t happening, but I’ve left Anxious People and Beart..."
I'm rereading Us Against You right now, and I am reminded that the Beartown series does get into some heavy issues. Beartown was published before the Me-Too movement, but it hits on the most important issue. It helps to explain why many women decide NOT to speak up and report a rape. (The rape itself was not explicit.) These books are about the whole community and they stand up well to re-reading, because there are so many interesting insights and perspectives.
I'm mentioning this for Mandy and others who do not want to read about heavy issues, or "someone done me wrong" stories. He deals with some dark issues, but his books are ultimately very uplifting. I love a combination of light and dark. They reveal "truths about the human condition" (which is a goal of literary writing).
dalex wrote: "My problem with romance novels is that they are, for the most part, heteronormative. Lesbian romances all seem to be published by indie presses or self published or whatever and the quality of writ..."I really liked The Lady's Guide to Celestial Mechanics - so it's a place to start :-)
dalex wrote: "My problem with romance novels is that they are, for the most part, heteronormative. Lesbian romances all seem to be published by indie presses or self published or whatever and the quality of writ..."I highly recommend Cantoras by Carolina De Robertis. She's an excellent South American author. It follows a group of lesbian women across a couple of decades, and it deals with many political and societal issues along the way. The characters are all well developed and interesting. It has romance tags, but not in the top 5.
Tipping the Velvet by Sarah Waters has 600+ romance tags (in the top 4 shelves, after his fic, fiction, and LGBT) so I would definitely consider it a romance novel.
Jeanette Winterson might have some romance,
I bookmarked this list of over 400 books with f/f relationships earlier this year thinking I might be able to figure out a prompt to suggest based on it, and then never investigated it or thought of a prompt. It might be useful for anyone looking for lesbian romance books.https://wordwoonders.com/books-f-f-re...
Oh also I just read She Who Became the Sun and it's not tagged as romance, but if it gets in and you want to KIS it (pun intended) this has a lesbian romance in it. Also, PopSugar had a sapphic novel as a prompt this year, and most of these have a lesbian romance. AND they are novels, soooooo it counts!
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
NancyJ wrote: "Mandy wrote: " Hopefully, someone puts something on the listopia that is not a someone done me wrong... "Alicia wrote: "I agree Backman is definitely literary fiction, especially with dalex’s def..."
rape is definitely a huge trigger for me. i will not read anything with it if it has to deal with the main character. off screen is also a no no.
Nadine in NY wrote: "I think you are discounting women's intelligence. I am a big genre reader. I enjoy romance, mystery, thriller, sci-fi, fantasy, horror when it's not too gory. They are ALL unrealistic. Your average guy is not like the hero in an espionage thriller. Your average guy does not have super tech skills like in a sci-fi novel. Your average guy is not the detail-oriented detective in many mysteries. Your average guy is not saving the world with his magical skills. ..."I agree with most of what you said in your first paragraph, but men are not the ones being told they cannot be something in life, while women still face these challenges.
We can agree to disagree if you like but I still think romances plant seeds in (especially) young women that life is a bowl of cherries when that clearly is not the case for the vast majority of people. I agree pretty much all genre is unrealistic.
I think most women are intelligent, by the way. If someone reads romances for escapism, then that's not what I'm talking about.
People are taking me the wrong way if they think I'm worried about womens' "poor minds." It is exactly the opposite.
Siobhan wrote: "Also, are HEA endings all that unrealistic? Yeah, real life isn't always rainbows and sunshine, but I know plenty of people who are happy at least most of the time.."We clearly have different life experiences.
Juliet Brown wrote: "I'd recommend you try Georgette Heyer if you need to read a romance, Her books are painstakingly researched Regency comedies of manners with no on page sex. She's my go to when 'romance' shows up in a reading challenge list..."Thank you for a constructive suggestion. i will check her out.
I LOVE this batch of prompts. I have no downvotes because I would genuinely be happy with any/all of these prompts (romance and literary fiction are two of my favorite genres). Will definitely upvote these 7:
- Echo
- Workplace
- Poem
- Romance
- Literary fiction
- Second book that fits your favorite prompt
- Top 23 GR books
@dalex if you don't consider this stretching the prompt, you could choose any book that has Romance listed as one of its genres on its GR page. The vast majority of YA books (and a good number of Fantasy books) are listed as Romance (among other genres). I was surprised to see the other day that The Firekeeper’s Daughter (which I haven't read yet) is a romance, probably because most of the reviews I've seen on it haven't mentioned the romance very much or at all.
Generally with genre prompts I've never thought of them as having to be exclusively that one genre (most of the western books I've read are both westerns and romances, like Brokeback Mountain and Where the Lost Wander).
Lynn wrote: "I am not typically a romance reader. (I do not need all the behind-the-door details. My imagination works just fine!) :)I could heartily recommend Andrea Penrose's Wrexford & Slo..."
I don't need details either. Thank you for the suggestion. I will check out Penrose's catalogue.
I really enjoyed Britt-Marie Was Here by Fredrik Backman and I don't remember any heavy topics in it.
Romance was an easy downvote for me. If it passes, it’s either going to be a wild card (and I haven’t used a wild card in any of the 4-5 years I’ve done ATY) or I’ll read a capital R Romantic novel.
I had an equal amount of up and down votes. I usually regret reading romance so that was a down, also I just did a challenge that had magic realism. I upvoted the echo and the fish out of water.
This was another really good group of prompts. This has been an excellent prompt selection year and I'm going to miss prompt nominations and discussions. I'm trying to reserve up votes for books I can readily uses from my shelves and from my Kindle, so my up votes went to literary fiction, a genre that rekindled love of reading, a book set in a workplace of at least one character, and the diversity award (I personally love the Dayton Peace Prize and I like an excuse to read one of their winners). My down votes went to prompts where I can't use my books but anything that makes it to the top I'll be happy about.
Tracy wrote: "Rachel, if you sort by average rating (highest on top) do you have so many new/low volume books that it takes pages to get to 23 larger volume books? If so, you have your finger on the pulse of a l..."Yes, actually. I have the (bad?) habit of adding upcoming releases to my TBR well in advance as a reminder that I want to read them, so I have tons. I just tried, and it took me 5 pages of my TBR to get to books that are already out or at least coming by the end of 2022, and even then only 3 of the 20 on that page would fit. That number does creep up a bit page after page, but I still think it would take me quite a while to dig for 23 and hope that there's something in that mix that I want to read badly.
So far my #1 strategic choice is to upvote: 9. A book from a genre that inspired, or rekindled, your love of reading.
I like the way it's phrased. I like some romance and some literary fiction, but they might be polarizing, and prompt 9 could be the smart move for both the lovers and haters. It can be any genre, but it could still require some thought.
My other favorites are:
A book that has won a diversity award.
an author you read in 2022
"a fish out of water"
A book that is one of the top 23 Goodreads rated books in your TBR
Maybe also -Magical realism, Echo, Villain, Workplace.
I would vote for "a love story" next week if it's suggested.
The wording is all from Tracy. I was just feeling nostalgic, but she helped me put it into a great prompt.
I ended up voting for romance, fish out of water, villain, workplace, and magical realism. Magical realism was a bit of a last-minute addition. I had a few prompts in mind that I was choosing between, but I'd like to read more of this genre.I downvote Top 23 on Goodreads for the reasons I've already mentioned, echo because I just don't get how to approach it, and related to a poem. I also strongly considered downvoting the diversity awards prompt because as it is now, the list is completely overwhelming and it seems like a lot of work to try to find something that might fit, but I decided to leave it alone since we'd have a listopia that would be super helpful.
Rachel wrote: "Tracy wrote: "Rachel, if you sort by average rating (highest on top) do you have so many new/low volume books that it takes pages to get to 23 larger volume books? If so, you have your finger on th..."I can see how that would make it really hard. I had a lot of books that I already read but didn't rate. They're probably duplicates. I skipped over those, reference nf books, and the books with few ratings. I was still left with mostly non-fiction.
Rachel wrote: "I ended up voting for romance, fish out of water, villain, workplace, and magical realism. Magical realism was a bit of a last-minute addition. I had a few prompts in mind that I was choosing betwe..."I'm going on faith that the diversity awards list will be like the W-Awards. We had an LGBT book award on one of seasonal challenges last year and I liked it. I added magical realism too. I didn't even know there was such a thing as literary fantasy before, but I think I like it. It overlaps with magical realism. I need to look at the lists for echo and workplace before I vote. It will have to wait another day.
I forgot about the second book prompt. I liked that one too. I might have 8 upvotes this week after all.
Mod
..."
Yes Nadine and Lynn, I totally agree about genre fiction. Years ago I went to a talk by Jayne Ann Krentz, who writes contemporary and historical romance, romantic suspense and paranormal romance. She also was the editor of Dangerous Men and Adventurous Women: Romance Writers on the Appeal of the Romance. She stated that the purpose of genre fiction (including all the types you mentioned) is different from the purpose of literary fiction. It isn't to reflect the outside world so much as to reflect the parts of ourselves (a concept from the psychologist Jung.) The hero and heroine of a romance can represent parts of ourselves, as can the various characters in other genre fiction. There is a certain satisfaction to an ending that wraps things up, (subconsciously bringing together the disparate parts), whether that is by a wedding, solving a crime, beating the bad guys in a fight, etc.
I've read several books this year which are classed as Romance and are based on loving relationships between friends. This includes:In Five Years and The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society. I'd recommend both of these. This could be an alternative for anyone who doesn't want to read a sickly sweet romance.
I've read other books which are Romance but none are the bodice-ripper Mills and Boon type romance. I tend to read Romance books by accident rather than by looking for the genre.
Joy D wrote: "We can agree to disagree if you like but I still think romances plant seeds in (especially) young women that life is a bowl of cherries when that clearly is not the case for the vast majority of people. ..."In most the romances I read, the main characters have life struggles and they aren't automatically solved by meeting someone.
Young people aren't stupid, they see the world around them is hard, but that shouldn't mean they can't dream of better. And if some of us are using fictional stories to shape the world around us, we should wholeheartedly have stories where women can have everything they want.
And that goes the same for LGBT+ romance. Heartstopper is one of the most heart warming things ever, it is good for gay kids to see that.
Dwelling on "happiness isn't realistic" is definitely not good for my mental health. If I want hopelessness, I can just read the news.
Martha wrote: "... (I personally love the Dayton Peace Prize and I like an excuse to read one of their winners). ..."Wow thank you for this. This is exactly the sort of narrowing-down that I needed to get behind this prompt! I was overwhelmed by ALL the choices! I have undiagnosed ADHD and I just couldn't handle that huge list. But the Dayton Prize is very small, of the books I've read I have loved all of them, and there are three winners I want to read. Perfect. I really hope this category wins now!!!!
Robin P wrote: "She stated that the purpose of genre fiction (including all the types you mentioned) is different from the purpose of literary fiction. It isn't to reflect the outside world so much as to reflect the parts of ourselves (a concept from the psychologist Jung.) The hero and heroine of a romance can represent parts of ourselves, as can the various characters in other genre fiction. There is a certain satisfaction to an ending that wraps things up, (subconsciously bringing together the disparate parts), whether that is by a wedding, solving a crime, beating the bad guys in a fight, etc. ..."wow this resonates so much with me!!! I've actually never read anything by Krentz, but now I'm thinking I should!!
ROBIN! I don't read romantic suspense so I need a recommendation. I have got 'Til Death Do Us Part by "Amanda Quick" on my TBR, and I'm looking at her contemporaries.
I found a few that look interesting. Which of these should I try first?
* The Vanishing
* When All the Girls Have Gone
* River Road
Rachel wrote: "I also strongly considered downvoting the diversity awards prompt because as it is now, the list is completely overwhelming and it seems like a lot of work to try to find something that might fit, but I decided to leave it alone since we'd have a listopia that would be super helpful."Check out message #86! I spent hours fine-tuning the listing and including a brief description and genres. Evidently that information cannot be posted in the message #2 now, but at least it is available... Glad you at least didn't downvote it, although I am happy and satisfied that I now have my own listing for future reference!
Robin P wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Nadine in NY wrote: "Joy D wrote: "I think in general it does women a disservice by planting the idea that romance is the be-all and end-all in life. The HEA endings are just so unreal...Yes Nadine and Lynn, I totally agree about genre fiction. Years ago I went to a talk by Jayne Ann Krentz, who writes contemporary and historical romance, romantic suspense and paranormal romance. She also was the editor of Dangerous Men and Adventurous Women: Romance Writers on the Appeal of the Romance. She stated that the purpose of genre fiction (including all the types you mentioned) is different from the purpose of literary fiction. It isn't to reflect the outside world so much as to reflect the parts of ourselves (a concept from the psychologist Jung.) The hero and heroine of a romance can represent parts of ourselves, as can the various characters in other genre fiction. There is a certain satisfaction to an ending that wraps things up, (subconsciously bringing together the disparate parts), whether that is by a wedding, solving a crime, beating the bad guys in a fight, etc."
Ooohhh...I really like that distinction!
Nadine in NY wrote: "Martha wrote: "... (I personally love the Dayton Peace Prize and I like an excuse to read one of their winners). ..."Wow thank you for this. This is exactly the sort of narrowing-down that I needed to get behind this prompt! I was overwhelmed by ALL the choices! I have undiagnosed ADHD and I just couldn't handle that huge list. But the Dayton Prize is very small, of the books I've read I have loved all of them, and there are three winners I want to read. Perfect. I really hope this category wins now!!!!"
Check out message #86! At your service! LOL :)
Lynn wrote: "Nadine in NY wrote: "Martha wrote: "... (I personally love the Dayton Peace Prize and I like an excuse to read one of their winners). ..."Wow thank you for this. This is exactly the sort of narro..."
It's your list that overwhelmed me!! All those good choices and I didn't know where to start. So I just ... didn't. I know you put so much work into it, and I know I can find many great books in there, but it's just too much for my brain to handle.
Nadine in NY wrote: "Lynn wrote: "Nadine in NY wrote: "Martha wrote: "... (I personally love the Dayton Peace Prize and I like an excuse to read one of their winners). ..."Wow thank you for this. This is exactly the ..."
But the new and improved listing gives descriptions and genres which should make it easier! :) Did the listing in message #86 not make it easier for you? :) I sure hope it did/does. My purpose was not to overwhelm, but to offer as many choices as possible.
Lynn wrote: "But the new and improved listing gives descriptions and genres which should make it easier! :) Did the listing in message #86 not make it easier for you? :)...."no my brain just capitulated before the choices, even though they are now carefully curated and annotated. Because each one of those choices leads to dozens of titles, maybe even hundreds, so that's a lot. Being pointed at ONE choice helped, then I found a few titles I really want to read and voila! I'm a huge fan of your idea now!!
I've never heard of the Dayton Peace Prize before so that's a nice discovery. bonus!
Nadine in NY wrote: "Lynn wrote: "But the new and improved listing gives descriptions and genres which should make it easier! :) Did the listing in message #86 not make it easier for you? :)...."no my brain just capitulated before the choices, even though they are now carefully curated and annotated. Because each one of those choices leads to dozens of titles, maybe even hundreds, so that's a lot. Being pointed at ONE choice helped, then I found a few titles I really want to read and voila! I'm a huge fan of your idea now!!
I've never heard of the Dayton Peace Prize before so that's a nice discovery. bonus!"
Ha! Ha! Well, sorry about that! (I'll keep that in mind for future reference! :))
There are so many I'd not heard of, I was blown away by the number of diversity awards out there now. (Quite a few added in the 21st Century too!) And it's not as if this is all of them. I am still adding individual awards to my own listing and now will keep doing so as I learn of new ones. Then I'll be sure to send that listing to you periodically so you can be overwhelmed anew! LOL Kidding! I wouldn't do that... :)
I'll cross my fingers for a diversity prompt for 2023 POPSUGAR! ;) I'll be ready!
Thank you everybody for the feeback, suggestions, comments etc regarding lesbian romances! I'm not going to take the time to respond to each one of you indiviually but I wanted to let you know that I've read all of the posts and am appreciative of the input.Also, thanks to those who shared their thoughts and opinions about Frederik Backman.
dalex wrote: "Thank you everybody for the feeback, suggestions, comments etc regarding lesbian romances! I'm not going to take the time to respond to each one of you indiviually but I wanted to let you know that..."I don't know if this one has been mentioned or you are aware of it, but Last Night at the Telegraph Club was one of my absolute favorite reads. However, it is YA and I would classify it as coming-of-age, so may not be at all what you are looking for.
Nadine in NY wrote: "Martha wrote: "... (I personally love the Dayton Peace Prize and I like an excuse to read one of their winners). ..."Wow thank you for this. This is exactly the sort of narrowing-down that I nee..."
I'm so glad you want to read from the Dayton Peace Prize list! Another group of listings mentioned in the annotated list that I check out every year included the PEN awards and I have a shelf of the 2022 long list that I want to read this year.
I do like the shortened and annotated list, Lynn. I think I'll make a list of the prizes you included so I can do a side project.
Martha wrote: "Nadine in NY wrote: "Martha wrote: "... (I personally love the Dayton Peace Prize and I like an excuse to read one of their winners). ..."Wow thank you for this. This is exactly the sort of narr..."
That's great! Help yourself!
Around the Year in 52 Books
Books mentioned in this topic
The Magic Faraway Tree (other topics)The Vanishing Half (other topics)
The Complete Fiction of Nella Larsen: Passing, Quicksand, and The Stories (other topics)
Airs Above the Ground (other topics)
Nine Coaches Waiting (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Mary Stewart (other topics)Amanda Quick (other topics)
Jayne Ann Krentz (other topics)
Fredrik Backman (other topics)
Andrea Penrose (other topics)
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I'd recommend you try Georgette Heyer if you need to read a romance, Her books are painstakingly researched Regency comedies of manners with no on page sex. She's my go to when 'romance' shows up in a reading challenge list