The Island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak -> Starting October 7th, 2022

[Aly]

Two teenagers, a Greek Cypriot and a Turkish Cypriot, meet at a taverna on the island they both call home. In the taverna, hidden beneath garlands of garlic, chili peppers and creeping honeysuckle, Kostas and Defne grow in their forbidden love for each other. A fig tree stretches through a cavity in the roof, and this tree bears witness to their hushed, happy meetings and eventually, to their silent, surreptitious departures. The tree is there when war breaks out, when the capital is reduced to ashes and rubble, and when the teenagers vanish. Decades later, Kostas returns. He is a botanist looking for native species, but really, he’s searching for lost love.

Years later, a Ficus carica grows in the back garden of a house in London where Ada Kazantzakis lives. This tree is her only connection to an island she has never visited - her only connection to her family’s troubled history and her complex identity as she seeks to untangle years of secrets to find her place in the world.

[Andy]

Started! :)

Hope I finish it! I'm not really in the mood for contemporary...

[Andy]

Page 81: (view spoiler)[A bit too much of the fig tre to this point... Also, I don't like the part with the tree in love with a human, it feels too unrealistic, even in the face of a thinking tree...
I wish it was more of the original story of the parents, maybe part 2 will be... though it seems like it's starting with them already being together, which is not what I want! :( I want to see how they got together in the first place! (hide spoiler)]

[Andy]

Page 130: (view spoiler)[Not sure how I feel about this description of generational trauma... I agree to an extent, but I feel it's described too much like a magic sort of thing, when in reality it is behaviourally/culturally transmitted, it's not really in the DNA, not in the sense this is describing... (hide spoiler)]

[Ellen-Arwen]

I'll start tonight hopefully - but I'm so knackered after tutorials and I get in about 7pm and just full asleep :( I hate not having time to read!

[Andy]

No worries! ;)
I might mix it up with something else and slow down a bit, but I also need to finish it before Friday! ;)

What are you studying? ;)

I started teaching again (Psychology) and I feel like I need books that take me out of reality right now! (Will probably go full fantasy for a while after this!)

[Andy]

Immigration is addressed extremely well here though!
I loved this: "I am an immigrant plant, and, like all immigrants, I carry with me the shadow of another land"

[Andy]

Ending: (view spoiler)[It took me a while to warm up to this, but I ended up really liking it. It's a delicate book that touches on deep and difficult topics, I think. I didn't love the revelation about the tree, I don't think it went well with the rest of the book... (hide spoiler)]

I'm really curious to see what you think about this book Ellen-Arwen! Sorry I couldn't wait - I got more invested, and I wanted to finish! ;)

[Ellen-Arwen]

Sorry, I read this over a week ago but my internet has been so dodgy I haven't been able to type up my thoughts :( I'm so behind on GoodReads it's insane!!

Anyway, better late than never! :)

Andy wrote: "Page 81: (view spoiler)[A bit too much of the fig tre to this point... Also, I don't like the part with the tree in love with a human, it feels too unrealistic, even in the face of a thinking tree...
I wish it wa..." (hide spoiler)] (view spoiler)[

(view spoiler)[ I have to disagree - I loved the device of the fig tree, I really did! Have you read The Overstory by Richard Powers? that's a book all about trees - not from any of the trees PoV, but it was making me think about how different that could have been written in this style - I really don't think it would have worked lol - but it's interesting to speculalate.

I just thought the fig tree as a device was really unique (although I have seen it a few times now maybe) and I thought that Shafik did it so confidently and assuredly.

I felt like that at the beginning - why are we focusing on the teenager? I felt like I was starting a YA novel almost, which wasn't what I had signed up for (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Ellen-Arwen]

Andy wrote: "Page 130: [spoilers removed]"

Generational trauma etc (view spoiler)[


I see what you mean about it almost being like magic, the emotional trauma. It verged on magical realism at points. Now, I really love magical realism but I quite like my lines to be clear cut if that makes sense? If it's magical realism, that's what it is. If it's plain old realistic fiction, keep it like that. I know it isn't a binary like that, so I really need to branch out my thinking (pun not intended).

All that rambling - sorry! I guess it was presented as passed through DNA: “Sometimes family trauma skips a generation altogether and redoubles its hold on the following one. You may encounter grandchildren who silently shoulder the hurts and sufferings of their grandparents.” But I think I chose to read that as skipping a generation because someone had bottled up their feelings or something rather than a recessive gene.

I guess it didn't bother me too much, because I was enjoying the story at this point. It had a few slow points where I was a little frustrated, but not around this mark (according to my notes lol). I guess it would've bothered me more if there wasn't enough to distract me...

I'm so glad that Shafik decided to take the book in the direction she did, with the majority of it being the previous generation. I have to admit I was pretty clueless about Cyprus' history and it's made me want to read more about it. Did you feel that the fig tree was too dominant here, just out of interest? (hide spoiler)]

[Ellen-Arwen]

Andy wrote: "Immigration is addressed extremely well here though!
I loved this: "I am an immigrant plant, and, like all immigrants, I carry with me the shadow of another land""

Yes! That's such a fabulous quote!
I also loved: “You don't share a language, you think, and then you realise, grief is a language. We understand each other, people with troubled pasts.”

It's very quoteable!

[Ellen-Arwen]

Andy wrote: "No worries! ;)
I might mix it up with something else and slow down a bit, but I also need to finish it before Friday! ;)

What are you studying? ;)

I started teaching again (Psychology) and I feel..."

I'm studying ESOL - teaching English as a Second Language. It's only a ten week course but that means it's VERY intensive! I teach every day now, and I can understand now when teachers complain about lesson planning - it takes me longer to write all the aims, potential problems, lexis, pronunciation in IPA, form, meanings, different cultural backgrounds, reasoning for teaching in that way etc... than it does to deliver the lesson. Five hours for a 45 minute class! It had better get quicker because it's crazy atm!

How are you finding teaching? Do you have to do crazy lesson plans? Is it your first time? i'm intrigued to talk to an experienced teacher!

[Ellen-Arwen]

Andy wrote: "Ending: [spoilers removed]

I'm really curious to see what you think about this book Ellen-Arwen! Sorry I couldn't wait - I got more invested, and I wanted to finish! ;)"

Finished a while ago as well lol (view spoiler)[

I'm sorry it didn't work as well for you :( I really enjoyed it (Although interestingly enough we've given it the same rating lol - I'm very stingy!)

The pace was a bit uneven at points, which is always a pain but it was manageable. And I became more used to the fig tree but less tolerant of it as the book went on I guess... This really was a novel at the intersection of genres - modern; quite YA in its writing style; recent history; magical realism; non-human narrator... I guess it seems quite 'fashionable' to write with a non-human narrator at the moment and I never get on with what's in fashion lol! I started off enjoying it and became more jaded.

I'm grateful to have read it - and i actually thought it was better than her first book (have you read it?) - which was a book of two halves (a really affecting, soulful first half, and then an almost farcical conclusion). It's good to see her come on as a writer (hide spoiler)]

thank you so much for your comments, I really enjoyed reading them! I hope you'll have time at some point to look at mine lol - I know I did write rather a lot; it's a tendency of mine hehe. I'd love to buddy read something else with you!! :)

[Andy]

Oh, I'm glad you read it! I thought you would like it!

Re fig tree and beginning: (view spoiler)[I warmed up to the tree perspective over time. It seemed a bit pointless at the beginning, but then I got more use to it. I disliked the "tree in love with a man" and the ending with thw soul of the wife though. I thoughtit didn't fit, and felt a bit pointless.
I also didn't care much about the teenage perspective at the beginning,and I was thinking the same thing as you! "Whatis this, a YA contemporary?" :P (hide spoiler)]

[Andy]

Re generational trauma: (view spoiler)[You are right, it is not done too badly, I just thought that some parts, especially towards the first half, I think, were a bit like "it's in the DNA", possibly from the tree's perspective especially, so maybe that's where my mixed feelings come from. The story of the mother talking with the "survivors" and coming tocthe conclusion there is a cycle of trauma was good. She obviosly came to the wrong concluaion that as a parent you should repress the hell out of it to avoid passing it to your children, which feels a bit naive to me, but it's probably the point. I am also glad to have read something about this period/place in history. Sounds a little bit similar to the partitio
of India, of whixh I also k kw very little! (hide spoiler)]

[Andy]

Ending: (view spoiler)[I didn't think about the fact that having non-animate narrators is becoming fashionable - ah! You are probably right! :) I ended up rather liking it,actually, it just took me a bit of time,because I expected itto bemore focusedon tbe parents' love story, and I was initially disappointed - I was expecting to see how they came to get together despite being of different religions. When I got used to it I got progressively more invested!

It's interesting that you liked this more than other works of the author! Other people over on a different group (Into the forest) said the opposite! Now I want to go back and read something of her earlier work to see what it's like :) I have put
The Architect's Apprentice on my TBR for now, vut feel free to suggest me another! :) (hide spoiler)]

[Andy]

I would love to buddy read something else with you! You are one of my favourite buddy-readers! We always have such interesting discussions!

I wanted to recommed a couple of books to you through Goodreads (the option we have when finish reading something), by the way, but you didn't show up on the list of people I could recommend books to, not sure why!

(view spoiler)[I think we could really be friends - it is so nice to connect with people with shared interests/thoughts! Sorry I tend to keep vague on
personal life, I just don't love disclosing TOO much on open forums for privacy, but feel free to send me a private message if you ever want to! :)

It's so interesting you are doing TESOL! 10 weeks sounds intense! I actually specialise in bilingualism and language!
I teach at University, so I have a relatively low teaching load compared to other levels (I teach almost every week, but just 3/4 hours on average), because I have plenty other things to do (research / student support and admin related), but I agree that preparation takes way longer than delivery! I have changed institution three times in the past three years, so I'm starting from scratch again, and I am always just about on time with preparation for lessons, because they are all new (I keep having to work on weekends to avoid falling behind, which is bad)! Everybody says it's much easier when you can recycle previous years material, which I really hope it's the case! I love my students though, and I like getting them to discuss things with each other - it is working well with my older students (I am glad I don't teach first years, because their attitude is still that of teenagers, and I don't care for it one bit! :P ) (hide spoiler)]

[Ellen-Arwen]

Andy wrote: "Oh, I'm glad you read it! I thought you would like it!

Re fig tree and beginning: I warmed up to the tree perspective over time. It seemed a bit pointless at the beginning, but then I got more use..."

Sorry these comments are so late!

Fig tree and beginning (view spoiler)[ It sounds like we had a very similar experience! I definitely had the thought, 'what, is this YA contemporary?' lol. I like YA cont fine but it wasn't what I had signed up for!
And the fig tree, while I got used to it, was just too much for being Daphne's soul. I mean - really?? No. Step too far. It was okay before that, although the being in love bit kind of gave away the ending but I refused to acknowledge that she would do that lol. (hide spoiler)]


Re generational trauma (view spoiler)[ Agree to all of the above! I basically know most of my history through books if I'm honest - you don't really learn that much at school, particularly bits of history that aren't centred on the UK (or US in your case I guess). History is just so vast; my only way of coming at it is through novels. Tbh, a lot of knowledge of EVERYTHING comes through novels. Obviously, I do a bit of reading around to check which bits have been down to creative license, but I love learning history this way. (hide spoiler)]

Ending (view spoiler)[

Oh, that's so interesting that in another buddy read they thought 10 minutes etc was better! I'd love to chat to them about why! How strange, but then I love that about reading that everyone can experience something different from the same writing. Once it's been written, it doesn't belong to the author anymore (that's how I feel about my writing anyway) - and the different ways we view it are so beautiful. I've only read the 10 minutes 38 seconds etc one, but if I get a gap in my TBR I'd read The Architect's Apprentice with you!
Yeah, it didn't turn out the way I had expected and I was initially disappointed but it was just different rather than bad. I'm not really a romance fan, so the lack of focus on that didn't bother me lol. But what felt a little weird is I'm not sure I really knew the characters as well as I'd expect to at the end. Kostas in the UK was a tad one dimensional... but I guess that was the point. And when Ada went back to school and everyone was just nice? That's not how teenagers behave! :P It felt a bit idyllic. Well, not the war and everything - OBVIOUSLY. But the way her 'trauma' or whatever it was was 'fixed' by Meriem. You don't fix a whole childhood of hiding the past over the summer holidays... Anyway. It was still a good read.

I forgot to say, I loved all Meriem's random proverbs - so good! (hide spoiler)]

I'm going to DM you for the rest, hope that's okay. I also LOVE buddy reading with you; you always have a decent amount to say and we get a real discussion going :) Have we got anything else planned atm? I've forgotten lol. Anyway, thank you, friend, for such wonderful comments - I've just been so super busy!

(Weird about the recommending books... I don't think I have any settings turned on/off but I will check now!)

[Andy]

Ellen-Arwen wrote: "Andy wrote: "Oh, I'm glad you read it! I thought you would like it!

Re fig tree and beginning: I warmed up to the tree perspective over time. It seemed a bit pointless at the beginning, but then I..."

Yes, DM me if you want! :D
I don't think we have any buddy reads planned next together, I'm not reading as much as before as I'm working too much! :P I think you are reading Ithaca next, while I'm buddy reading Kaikeyi (massively looking forward to it!) and then Anatomy: A Love Story. I will read Ithaca eventually, but I have a bunch of books to read first!
I have The Stationery Shop and Dreaming in Cuban to read soon, that might appeal to you - I also really really want to have a good excuse to buy Babel, or the Necessity of Violence: an Arcane History of the Oxford Translators' Revolution! :) Or you can suggest something!

It might be because you are an author on GR that people can't suggest books? I was going to recommend Before the Coffee Gets Cold and Skyward (the second is a bit left field for you I think, but the discussions about different races in the second book are exquisite!)

Re: beginning: I agree with everything! :P

Re: generational trauma: I also love to learn history from books! History is a fanfiction of the winners to a good degree anyway, though said that I also don't like when people disparage fiction books for not being accurate! I can't win!

Re ending: I agree with the "death of the author", but I keep coming across argument against it...
(view spoiler)[Oh, you are right, Kostas was a tad unidimensional... And I agree, teenagers are not that nice, but I was actually not expecting the good ending there, so it made me feel good! :P And the change in Ada I agree it is a bit sudden... I guess for the scope of the book years of therapy were not interesting to explore! ;) That's rather typical of self contained books I think... (hide spoiler)]

[Kira]

Part 1 : (view spoiler)[A fig tree....thinking and a sentient being? It feels a bit weird. "I'm in love with a human" - definitely a bit too much. But if I just ignore that aspect, the rest of the story and Ada's relationship dynamic with her father and aunt is very interesting, I am curious to see what the second part entails (hide spoiler)]

Part 2 : (view spoiler)[I was not expecting to see so much of Cyprus and Kostas and Defne's relationship in the book, it was a pleasant surprise. All the culture talk and Meryem telling Ada about the past intrigued me and I am enjoying the story. (hide spoiler)]

Part 3 : (view spoiler)[Ok so the plot is heavily about Kostas and not Ada, I wasn't expecting that tbh but it does not make it any less enjoyable. Kostas moving to England made me sad especially because of the circumstances under which Defne and him separated. I like Meryem's character as well and the way her relationship is building with Ada (hide spoiler)]

Part 4 : (view spoiler)[OH wow the reunion!! It swelled my heart. I am very curious about what happened to their baby, did Defne really give birth? The whole scene with the djinns though was all kinds of weird. I didn't like Meryem taking both Defne and Ada to exorcists at a point in their lives (hide spoiler)]

Part 5 : (view spoiler)[Yiorgos and Yusuf's fate broke my heart and the discovery of their remains was just way too emotional. I am glad that Defne and Kostos decided to give themselves another chance without any further deliberations and quickly moved to London. They won't get back the time they lost but atleast they had their good moments in life (hide spoiler)]

Finished : (view spoiler)[This was such a soulful read. I did find some parts a bit difficult to go through and the role the fig tree played in the whole journey was not something I greatly enjoyed but the story in itself was marvellous. Three generation, three mindsets and the way they all connected, it was just mesmerizing (hide spoiler)]