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Fools of Fortune
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Fools of Fortune - October BOTM
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Trevor finds amazing tenderness and intimacy in this novel. Its unusual epistolary form where the principal characters write to an inaccessible person made such warmth possible, I think. I’ve never seen that before and really enjoyed where Trevor took the experiment and how completely it succeeded. I go into this more in my review, but I felt like basically Trevor was giving us a portrait of human longing. It’s also possible that at the allegorical level it is a spiritual story.
An interesting story with very good prose and I learned something about 20th century Irish history as well. The full story of the characters' lives is told in a roundabout way, as Book said in her review, but I didn't really have an issue with that. I think it was more interesting that way than learning everything that happened chronologically.The multiple-narrators structure worked very well in this novel.
I posted a review but I did not comment on the epistolary nature of the book as John did above. I did have to go back to the beginning when I stumbled upon a "you" that was being directly addressed and I was not sure exactly who the "you" was. I enjoyed that Trevor used this form without making it seem a constraint or too much of a meta construct....it simply seemed like the correct way to tell this tale, from the point of view of the characters addressing each other.
Sorry for the delay in getting the questions posted it has been hectic with hospital appointments here. We are all good it just took up time getting there.
Without further ado here are your questions:
1. What did you think of the narrative technique?
2. Who is the story written for/to?
3. Who were your favourite characters?
4. What is the book saying about the following: Mental illness, political struggle, Ireland/England?
5. Did you learn anything new?
6. Have you read any other books about this time/place in history? How do they compare to this?
7. Have you read anything else by Trevor? If so how does it compare?
8. Does this deserve its place on the list?
Without further ado here are your questions:
1. What did you think of the narrative technique?
2. Who is the story written for/to?
3. Who were your favourite characters?
4. What is the book saying about the following: Mental illness, political struggle, Ireland/England?
5. Did you learn anything new?
6. Have you read any other books about this time/place in history? How do they compare to this?
7. Have you read anything else by Trevor? If so how does it compare?
8. Does this deserve its place on the list?
1. What did you think of the narrative technique?As mentioned above, I thought it worked once I figured it out.
2. Who is the story written for/to?
I do not think that the novel has a limited audience. Although clearly the novel was addressing the national post traumatic stress of the English occupation and the nature of colonialism which punishes both the occupied and the occupier (eventually), largely it reflected themes that could be applicable to any family suffering from past stresses that could carry through generations as a kind of inherited haunting.
If I am reading the question incorrectly; the story is told by the main characters to each other - largely Willie to Marianne and Marianne to Willie although Imelda does have a chapter also.
3. Who were your favourite characters?
Dr Kilgarriff - he lived his beliefs even if they did not align with the majority political beliefs of the time.
4. What is the book saying about the following: Mental illness, political struggle, Ireland/England?
One theme is the repercussions of violent actions on everything; the culture, the individuals, and even the individual's children. Mental illness is treated in an old-fashioned way in the novel, in a rather gothic way.... the daughter's madness is the natural response to living with ghosts.
5. Did you learn anything new?
I now have read a couple of books about the 1916 revolt but I did learn of the possibility that there were Protestants and people of English origin that sided with the Irish.
6. Have you read any other books about this time/place in history? How do they compare to this?
I have read At Swim- Two Boys but that book has a much larger scope than this one.
7. Have you read anything else by Trevor? If so how does it compare?
I haven't read anything else by him but now I am looking forward to Lucy Gault, which is evidently considered to be a better book by many.
8. Does this deserve its place on the list?
Hmm, tough call. I think so.
I've also read At Swim- Two Boys which was in this time period in Ireland, and The Heather Blazing which is partly/mostly in this period and partly later. Also a couple of novels by Edna O'Brien which were set in the mid-20th century. I do think it deserves to be in the 1001 list, but Trevor's three novels that were in the original edition were all dropped from later editions. The other two were Felicia's Journey (which made it into three editions) and The Story of Lucy Gault.
I will be traveling for two weeks in Ireland (my 1st trip), starting this Thursday so I wonder if that will affect my views of the novels set in Ireland that I've read.
Oh, safe travels George.
I've also read The Story of Lucy Gault, Felicia's Journey (my favourite) and The Children of Dynmouth.I love William Trevor's writing, but his characters do have a tendency to let their lives go badly wrong without putting up a fight. I found Lucy Gault even more frustrating from this point of view. I wrote in my review of that book, "I suppose that the point is to explore what happens to people caught in a situation that should never have happened." I think that applies to Fools of Fortune too.
I loved this book, just my cup of tea..1. What did you think of the narrative technique?
I thought it worked well as I was very engaged in the characters and their story, but I did feel at times it lost the immediacy of the direct address to another character, especially with Willie. It was helpful in allowing Trevor to reveal events gradually and organically.
2. Who is the story written for/to?
The story is written for each of the main characters to reveal to each other (and hence to the reader) how events appeared from their perspective and to fill the gaps in events.
3. Who were your favourite characters?
My favourite was Josephine, whose life was affected as much as the others, but dealt with it bravely. I found them all interesting, even if I didn’t like them.
4. What is the book saying about the following: Mental illness, political struggle, Ireland/England?
I think it’s only addressing mental illness indirectly as a consequence but also a way of dealing with the trauma of events. Both Willie’s mother and his daughter are traumatised by events, but Imelda’s illness is seen more positively by those around her. Violence begets violence is the political message.
5. Did you learn anything new?
No, but it is good to think about events from different perspectives.
6. Have you read any other books about this time/place in history? How do they compare to this?
Quite a few - the Heather Blazing, At Swim-Two-Boys, Troubles, The Bitter Glass. It is a fertile ground for novelists, probably because it is so complex. Every book offers a different angle, but the idea of a single family’s plight representing the wider political situation is a common one.
7. Have you read anything else by Trevor? If so how does it compare?
No this was my first but I’d like to read more.
8. Does this deserve its place on the list?
For me, yes. It was memorable, powerful and thought provoking.
Mod
2. Who is the story written for/to? I've read somewhere that it is written to the house. That it is a "big house" story. So it also is about the country and the violence of that land. The house is partially destroyed and people destroyed and you have those that hang on in the ruins of destruction.
3. Who were your favourite characters? I liked Willie and then I didn't like him either. I was probably most comfortable with the characters of the aunts. I liked them a lot. Also the defrocked priest. I also liked Josephine.
4. What is the book saying about the following: Mental illness, political struggle, Ireland/England?
Mental illness (PTSD, depression) was brought on by violent deaths.
Political struggle: terrorist and violent acts hurt the innocent and do little to change the political stances.
Ireland and England have connections but also differences.
5. Did you learn anything new? not really new information but a different presentation of the tragedy of political violence.
6. Have you read any other books about this time/place in history? How do they compare to this? yes, At Swim, Two Boys, The Milkman by Burns, The Last September by Bowen
7. Have you read anything else by Trevor? If so how does it compare? Haven't read anything by Trevor
8. Does this deserve its place on the list? yes, I think so
This was the kind of book I joined a book group for. I would never ever have just picked this up on my own, but now I"m really glad I read it. It was haunting. I find myself thinking about it at odd times. I think it's one I'll remember for a long time.This book is about the struggle for Irish independence and the legacy of political violence. I think it was mostly about the tension between remembering and forgetting. Evie, Willie's mother, can't bear to remember everything she's lost. She separates herself from everyone she ever knew, even seeing Mr. Derenzy twice a year is too much. She becomes an alcoholic, but she can never really forget, until she can't bear it anymore.
Willie is just starting to move past the tragedy, thinking about a family of his own and restoring Kilneagh when his mother dies, and he tries to get vengeance for the past. He ends up permanently separated from his home, and in the end, I don't think he wants to come back, even if he could. He knows about Imelda, and that Marianne is at Kilneagh, but he would rather return to Italy. I think he wants to forget it all, too, try to find an escape.
Marianne remembers, she stays at Kilneagh, she tells her daughter stories about the house and the family and her father. She keeps waiting for Willie, who is never coming back, and who will never again be the person she remembers. Imelda, with her vivid imagination, can't handle all the memories, her own and her family's and it drives her into her own mind, the only place she can create a happy world for them all.
I've never had to live with the aftermath of violence like that, and I feel like I learned something from the book. I can understand a little bit about how people can become trapped, so that cherishing the past and trying to escape it are both so painful. It wasn't an easy book to read, but I think it really described something that's probably hard for the rest of us to understand.
Anybody have any idea what the title means? It's really suggestive of a meaning, but I can't figure out exactly how it sums up the book.
Mod
I learned from my trip to Ireland that most of the tensions have dissipated. The walls in Derry/Londonderry that separated the Catholic and Protestant neighborhoods (to keep the peace) have mostly been removed. You can travel between Northern and the Repulic without any passport/customs check. Most of the residents of Northern Ireland are not interested in a united Ireland, want to stay part of Britain. A lot of the Northern Ireland Catholics are no longer active in the church- just go for weddings and funerals like many in America. For some it's more an economic issue: UK has a better-funded national health system, but higher income taxes and Ireland (the republic) is in a better business situation as part of the EU. and Ireland is allowed to do business with the North as though the North were still an EU country. There are limits placed on the "Orangemen" marches in Belfast to make them less provoking. Our guide who is Catholic and from Dublin said he couldn't live in Belfast (N. Ireland) because there is still a lot of tension there however.
1. I thought the narrative technique very powerful. The frustration that Kristel felt because the two main characters were not directly communicating with each other, although they were directing their narratives towards each other, was superbly conceived.2. Willie was writing to Marianne and Marianne was writing to Willie, but they were both writing for the reader.
3. I really did not have a favourite - they were all flawed.
4. The "fools of fortune" theme was reiterated several times - that bad luck or bad timing can have repercussions for generations. The injustices of conflict, in this case the Irish fight for independence, can have repercussions for generations and individual choices can be deforming for both indidviduals and for society.
5. Yes, that Willliam Trevor is an extraordinary writer.
6. Ulysses, At Swim Two Birds, The Last September, the Dubliners.
7. I haven't but I will.
Pip wrote: "4. The "fools of fortune" theme was reiterated several times - that bad luck or bad timing can have repercussions for generations. The injustices of conflict, in this case the Irish fight for independence, can have repercussions for generations and individual choices can be deforming for both indidviduals and for society..."So I guess the word "fool" in the title suggests more of a 'victim' meaning than an 'idiot' meaning. Like we can 'be made a fool of' by chance, or by the vagaries of history.
Even when I remove this title from the context of the book and try to look at it completely objectively it still feels like a riddle to me. I'm wondering if it might be an Irish adage. Maybe it's like an epithet applied to people who try something impossible or unlikely or irrational or something like that.
[After I wrote the above I gave in and searched the web for some insight. In this link people liken it to being 'a plaything of fate' and cite similar uses in King Lear and Romeo and Juliet -- https://forum.wordreference.com/threa... ]
John Dishwasher wrote: "Pip wrote: "4. The "fools of fortune" theme was reiterated several times - that bad luck or bad timing can have repercussi..."This reminds me of a line Margaret Atwood had in a novel (The Blind Assassin?): "she was at the mercy of events, and events have no mercy".
George P. wrote: "She was at the mercy of events, and events have no mercy..."Marvelous!
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...