The Prancing Pony Playground

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

This thread is for anything to do with J.R.R. Tolkien. We can discuss the books of this legendary author plus anything to do with the The Hobbit/LOTR movies and now the Ring of Power series as well. 😊

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

I watched episode three last night of RoP and felt that it is slowly building up to hopefully a long series.

I am using a spoiler here as not sure who has watched that episode last night.

But here is my question - (view spoiler)[Galadriel mentions Sauron when she reads the scrolls but how does he actually come into existence? Is this what I will find out when I get around to reading The Hobbit?

Did Sauron exist long before the rings of power play a role? (hide spoiler)]

[J.]

(view spoiler)[ Sauron, Melkor, Gandalf, the Balrogs, and the rest are all Ainur (read angel). They were the first beings created by Eru Iluvatar (God), and were the angelic chorus which sang Middle Earth (Midgard) and it's entire history into existence. Melkor and his allies, like Sauron, rebelled.

This is why Gandalf only gives advise and encouragement until the Balrog shows up. Gandalf and the Balrog are rough equals. Gandalf is the only one there who can even begin to put up a fight against that. (hide spoiler)]

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

J. wrote: " ....view spoiler.."

Thank you, J. :)

[Ian (RebelGeek)]

J. wrote: " view spoiler..."

Thanks. I forgot this.

[Ian (RebelGeek)]

Marie wrote: "This thread is for anything to do with J.R.R. Tolkien. We can discuss the books of this legendary author plus anything to do with the The Hobbit/LOTR movies and now the Ring of Power series as well. 😊"

I love the clever thread names!

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

Ian (RebelGeek) wrote: "Marie wrote: "This thread is for anything to do with J.R.R. Tolkien. We can discuss the books of this legendary author plus anything to do with the The Hobbit/LOTR movies and now the Ring of Power


I love the clever thread names! ..."

Thank you, but I am not taking credit for this thread name. I am giving the credit to Graeme on this one as he is a huge LOTR fan and I asked him to throw me a name for this thread! 😊

[Graeme]

Marie wrote: "and I asked him to throw me a name for this thread! 😊..."

Little did Marie know that my method was plucking random words culled from LoTR out of a hat and then rearranging them while blindfolded.

Some early efforts that didn't make the cut were

Gandalf's Orcish Armpit.
The Balrog's Balderdash.
The Goblin Town Gabfest.
The Troll Towers Crossroad.
Shelob's Succulent Table

and finally

Greybeard's Gassy Fumes...

[J.]

Poor Tom Bombadil, left out again.

[Graeme]

J. wrote: "Poor Tom Bombadil, left out again."

I did think of Tom, but I just don't find him comically inspiring for some reason.

[Jeffrey]

Thank you for this, Marie. Great idea. I would love nothing more than parking myself at a table with a book or my writing pad and just never leaving...

Well, except perhaps to get another pint.

I wonder what the specialty on tap would be.... HMMMM...

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

Jeffrey wrote: "Thank you for this, Marie. Great idea. I would love nothing more than parking myself at a table with a book or my writing pad and just never leaving...

Well, except perhaps to get another pint.

..."

Let Graeme pick the pint names - I am sure we will see some very interesting names! lol :)

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

Jeffrey wrote: "Thank you for this, Marie. Great idea. I would love nothing more than parking myself at a table with a book or my writing pad and just never leaving......"

You are welcome! Oh and I just grabbed The Hobbit off of KU so will be diving into that book this month as soon as I clean off a couple of books. :)

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

Graeme wrote: "Marie wrote: "and I asked him to throw me a name for this thread! 😊..."

Little did Marie know that my method was plucking random words culled from LoTR out of a hat and then rearranging them while...Gandalf's Orcish Armpit.
The Balrog's Balderdash.
The Goblin Town Gabfest.
The Troll Towers Crossroad.
Shelob's Succulent Table

and finally

Greybeard's Gassy Fumes..."

What?! Did these end up on the cutting room floor with everything else you have down there?! I could have chosen from these names?! I kind of like these four:

The Balrog's Balderdash.
The Goblin Town Gabfest.
The Troll Towers Crossroad.
Shelob's Succulent Table

I might have used them! 😂 🤣

[Jeffrey]

Marie wrote: "Jeffrey wrote: "Thank you for this, Marie. Great idea. I would love nothing more than parking myself at a table with a book or my writing pad and just never leaving......"

You are welcome! Oh and ..."

Nice!

[Graeme]

Jeffrey wrote: "Thank you for this, Marie. Great idea. I would love nothing more than parking myself at a table with a book or my writing pad and just never leaving...

Well, except perhaps to get another pint.

..."

Me too!

[Netanella]

"Greybeard's Gassy Fumes" occur regularly in my house, as I have two dogs, two cats, a son and a male roommate. Fart jokes abound.

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

Netanella wrote: ""Greybeard's Gassy Fumes" occur regularly in my house, as I have two dogs, two cats, a son and a male roommate. Fart jokes abound."

Sounds like an interesting place to live! LOL

[Krystal]

Hello hi I need to make myself known to this LOTR thread as I'm here for all related discussions! I'm really getting back into the world with the release of the new show - it's just reminding me how much of the history of Middle Earth there still is to explore. Full nerding out at the moment over everything LOTR lol

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

@Krystal - welcome to this thread. This is exactly why I created this thread for any and all discussions of the fantasy world created by Tolkien. :)

[J.]

If anyone wants to do a deep dive into Tolkien, Ryan Reeves Ph.D. gave a series of lectures at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary which he has uploaded to YouTube.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLR...

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

J. wrote: "If anyone wants to do a deep dive into Tolkien, Ryan Reeves Ph.D. gave a series of lectures at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary which he has uploaded to YouTube.

https://youtube.com/playlist?li..."

Thank you so much, J! Wow! That is awesome! I will have to take time out of reading (lol) and go watch those videos! :)

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

The next episode of Rings of Power is on tonight. :)

[Krystal]

Keen!

[Graeme]

Watching episode #4 now.

Some thoughts on what I've seen so far and I'll put a spoiler around the whole block as it kinda deals with all the episodes up to the 4th.

(view spoiler)[[1] Galadriel, is nicely cast, I think Morfydd Clark is doing a good job with the role. However, and I know this is hard, but I think Galadriel would be smarter than how she is written. She presents her cause to the regent of Numenor without explicitly figuring out how to do it in a way that engages with Numenor's politics and ultimately ends up in a prison cell.

She currently has neither subtlety nor awareness of how to handle power.

Also, what's with being friendless as a child? (apart from the opportunity to play out a wise word from her brother as she almost drowns in the sundering seas...)

So, Galadriel, class: Elf Queen: Level 1, prospects: Still a lot of growth to go and needs to wise up fast.

[2] Elendil and Isildur: Well cast. However, these guys end up commanding an army of Numenorians in the last alliance of men and elves on the slopes of Mount Doom. They have to have substantial gravitas and ability to command. At the moment, this is quite lacking in both men. For me, this is a missed opportunity. Drama is driven by contrast. If Isildur (who is coming off as an immature prat who only thinks of himself) had been demonstrably high-minded, the head of a long dynasty of kings, and the ancestor of Aragorn, then his fall to the fell powers of the One Ring would have been far more dramatic then this 'child,' ultimately tripping over himself to 'fall to the One Ring.'

So, Elendil, and Isildur, class: Could be Kings: Level 5 and 1 respectively, prospects: While Elendil looks like he has a spine, Isildur needs to grow one, or else his fall to the One Ring has no meaning.

[3] The Stranger. Yep got it - surely no one is surprised this is Gandalf.

So, The Stranger, class: Gandalf/Wizard: Level 1 (pending level 50). prospects: Will grow into himself with the help of Nori.

[4] Nori Brandybuck. No doubt marries a Took in the near future as she has 'super-Tookish,' 'let's press upon all the boundaries,' enthusiasm for anything out of the ordinary and is clearly the ancestor of the Tooks. God bless her. A very well written and played character that lights up the screen in every scene she's in.

So, Nori, class: 'Hobbit (ex-Harfoot)' Hero: Level 5. prospects: Will save Gandalf, her Family, and everyone she is close to.

[5] Bronwyn. Nicely cast, poorly written. The whole story around the humans appears to be driven by a committee making decisions around the narrative. People are just not going to give up their livelihoods and walk without any provisions to an abandoned Elf guard tower on the say so of a marginal girl with a single Orc head. Instead they would have [1] rejected the evidence, or [2] rejected the solution. I.e. if orcs are coming we'll have to defend our homes, or gather up all our provisions and livestock and move to a safer location. No way they end up at the tower with 8 potatoes to feed everyone - are you kidding me???

So, Bronwyn, class: Human Hero: Level 1. Prospects: Will kill everyone around her absent a massive 'Deus Ex Machina,' that saves everyone. This is unlikely - expect the villagers who followed her to the tower to die in droves, unless the orcs have a fit of 'cunning stupidity,' and snatch defeat from certain victory, allowing Bronwyn and a few selected others to escape.

[6] Arondir. Well cast. An interesting and nuanced character.

So, Arondir, class: Elf Hero: Level 5. prospects: Likely to survive against the odds while everyone around him dies horribly.

Other thoughts I'll leave for another time. (hide spoiler)]

[Graeme]

Finished episode #4.

Not sure of what motivated the regent to change her mind and back (view spoiler)[Galadriel's play. (hide spoiler)]

This is what I feared. Characters making decisions driven by the needs of the narrative, rather than as a natural expression of who they are.

Currently running at 4 stars for entertainment.

Reflecting upon what I see so far, I'm just thinking the story is too challenging for the writers. I'll persist with it (4 stars and all) but I think they are trying to tell too many stories at once and its scattering the focus of the story as whole. Like looking through a child's kaleidoscope, things snap, and snap, and snap as you twist and turn the tube, and its pretty, but in the end lacks depth.

The scattered narrative threads makes it hard to spend enough time with any one character to develop depth and enable emotional investment. Of the characters I've see so far, the most investible are Arondir, Nori, and Galadriel, of the rest, not so much.

I look forward to episode 5 to see what changes?

Does anyone know if these 8 episodes are the full story, or are there more episodes and seasons to come. If that's the case, then there will be time to fully flesh out the story threads that have been started.

[Graeme]

Just checked - apparently there are 5 seasons planned.

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

Graeme wrote: "Watching episode #4 now.

Some thoughts on what I've seen so far and I'll put a spoiler around the whole block as it kinda deals with all the episodes up to the 4th.."

Awesome breakdown of thoughts! Loved this! Actually you put everything into a better perspective on what is transpiring. I was still trying to gather thoughts on it but I think everything you said rings true with what has happened so far.

[Kirsten]

Marie wrote: "I watched episode three last night of RoP and felt that it is slowly building up to hopefully a long series.

I am using a spoiler here as not sure who has watched that episode last night.

But h..."

On the same night, I watched the first episode of the new LOTR series and the new GoT spinoff - and I preferred the LOTR one.

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

As a whole for the characters I was thinking that some of them are so far not living up to the legendary status that they become.

I feel that with: (view spoiler)[

Galadriel doesn't seem to be the same person we see later on down the road but maybe she has to grow into herself. I thought that was stupid too on standing up to the regent and then getting thrown in a cell! I thought she was smarter than that - she should have thought it out better as it seemed she made a hasty decision. Normally Galadriel (the one we know as she is older) would not make rash decisions like that so it was a surprise to see her do something stupid.

I love Nori! She has that same mischief streak that we later see with Pippin. :)

The Stranger - definitely Gandalf :) - Hoping to see how he comes to be a wizard down the line.

Isildur - He definitely seems wimpy right now - lol - I am thinking to myself that this is the legendary hero?! Really?! I will be interested to see how he gets to that legendary status as I am sure not seeing it right now.

Elendil - I can see him to be what he becomes - it is there hiding under the surface of his character and at some point should come forth. (hide spoiler)]

Those are just thoughts for a few characters. :)

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

Graeme wrote: "Just checked - apparently there are 5 seasons planned."

I knew there were to be a lot of seasons planned as I had checked into it over the summer. We have a long time to become invested in that series. :)

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

Kirsten wrote: "On the same night, I watched the first episode of the new LOTR series and the new GoT spinoff - and I preferred the LOTR one. ..."


I don't subscribe to HBO so haven't watched GoT but heard it was very good. Rings of Power is awesome as it gives a great insight on what is to come and I love anything with LOTR anyway. :) Happy to see that you are enjoying it. :)

[Graeme]

Indeed, Marie. If they produce the full five series. Approx 50 hours of story telling. They will have the time to flesh out a number of character arcs in satisfying ways.

Perhaps the $1B budget is for the full scope of the story.

[J.]

Sorry, Amazon paid over $200 million for the rights and over $700 million for the production of Season 1. Future seasons will cost less because they can reuse assets from season 1, but they aren't paid for yet.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultass...

[Graeme]

Oh. Indeed. We'll they are at risk of cancellation.

[Netanella]

Well, I for one hope they do not get cancelled.

The settings are amazing for realizing the world of Tolkien, even if the story is not quite canonical.

[Marie, Coffee-Chocolate-Book Lover]

I hope they do not get canceled either. I love the scenery and the characters.

[Krystal]

I'm basically loving all of it except for Galadriel's storyline and the casting of Gil-Galad, Celebrimbor, and all the other random elves that look a little too middle-aged-man for one of the 'fair'.

Highlight so far for me has been Khazad Dum; visually stunning and I'm really just enjoying learning more about the Dwarves!

[Graeme]

Netanella wrote: "Well, I for one hope they do not get cancelled.

The settings are amazing for realizing the world of Tolkien, even if the story is not quite canonical."

They just need to make money. If the first season works out well for Amazon. They'll green light the next series for sure. At least I think they would.

[Graeme]

Marie wrote: "I hope they do not get canceled either. I love the scenery and the characters."

The cinematography is everything you could ask for.

[Graeme]

Krystal wrote: "Highlight so far for me has been Khazad Dum; visually stunning and I'm really just enjoying learning more about the Dwarves!.."

Indeed. I wonder if we'll see a Balrog freed in the depths...

[Krystal]

Graeme wrote: "Krystal wrote: "Highlight so far for me has been Khazad Dum; visually stunning and I'm really just enjoying learning more about the Dwarves!.."

Indeed. I wonder if we'll see a Balrog freed in the ..."

I hope so!!

[Graeme]

I suspect so ... it'd be iconic.

Although poor dwarves, if it's not Smaug roasting them, it's a Balrog!

[Graeme]

Episode #5: I've gotta say, that this is getting better as it goes along.

[Graeme]

I spoke too soon. Bronwyn. Day 1. 'Who will fight with me.' Day 2. 'Let's surrender...'

C'mon. I hate it when characters flip flop for no reason.

As a reader/viewer how do we know who anyone is if they have no convictions?

[Graeme]

On the plus side, Elrond, Durin, Nori and Gandalf are all delights.

[Netanella]

I'll agree with you, Graeme, that Bronwyn is one of the weaker characters so far.

[J.]

Graeme wrote: "I suspect so ... it'd be iconic.

Although poor dwarves, if it's not Smaug roasting them, it's a Balrog!"

About that:
(view spoiler)[Yep, Elrond is friends with a dead dwarf walking.

Durin's Bane
https://youtu.be/Y2fwe0rnHak (hide spoiler)]

[Graeme]

Iconic sequence, J.

[Graeme]

Netanella wrote: "I'll agree with you, Graeme, that Bronwyn is one of the weaker characters so far."

The humans are the weakest link in the story so far. Enjoying the rest.