The Unknown Ajax Spoilers Thread August 2022

[Margaret]

I think Hugo and Anthea (and Elvira) might well move back into Darracott Place once the current Lord Darracott dies (I assume that's what you mean by that excessively euphemistic "moves on", since nothing less is going to dislodge the old man from the house of his fathers). If nothing else, I can easily see them having enough children to start feeling a bit crowded in the Dower House.

When Anthea and Hugo are discussing the Darracott legends (in particular, the secret passage), I got a glimpse of what it might have been like at Darracott Place when all the cousins were still children. Anthea points out that she and Claud were the youngest (leaving out Richmond, who was presumably either not born yet or still just a baby). Vincent was probably the oldest or close to it, since Matthew was the first of Lord Darracott's sons to marry. He and Claud probably weren't there all year round, but the family would come for long visits in the summer, I imagine, and run around with Granville's children (Oliver and his sisters Caro and Eliza) as well as Anthea. (Vincent and Claud have sisters too, but I get the impression that they're younger than Anthea and Richmond, since they have yet to be brought out.) There must have been fun times before they all started to grow up and had to deal with the problems of adulthood.

[Jenny]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "In answer to Jenny upthread, I think Elvira will go. I don't think Anthea & Hugo would leave her with Lord D.
..."

Except by the end Lord D was begging her to forgive him and she was sobbing on his chest. She might feel too sorry for him to leave him, and the realisation that she could leave him might cause him to treat her better. After all, she is mistress of the house there, with a job to do, whereas living with Anthea and Hugo she'd just be a hanger-on.

[Cheryl]

I think Hugo might spend much of the year there - he's very much aware of the dangers of being an absentee (or, in the case of Lord D, neglectful) landlord, and also has enough work there making up for Lord D's managerial failings to last a lifetime.

[Critterbee❇]

Finished! I still like this one, and was happy to have a chance to read it thoroughly.

Now I am wondering what type of young boy Lord D was - was he always so crusty and imperious? Now, he knows that the only hold he has over anyone is based on the money he has, how horrid a situation! I think the thing that he was the most upset about Hugo was that Hugo was financially independent. When he finds out, he feels powerless, which is a feeling that he has worked his whole life to avoid. What made that so important to him?

He is upset when people 'cross' him by disagreeing or by expressing counter opinions, but then he likes them better for it, because he respects that they are not easily controlled.

[Teresa]

Not a relation I'd like to have and to have to depend on him would be a nightmare!!

[Jenny]

Critterbee❇ wrote: "Now I am wondering what type of young boy Lord D was - was he always so crusty and imperious? ..."

We're told that Vincent takes after him - and that Rupert and Granville were always 'brangling', by which I understand furious rows and slamming doors, so it sounds as though pretty much the whole family is hard to get on with. I expect the last Lord D was much the same, and spoilt his heir much as the present Lord D does Richmond, so he was an arrogant, bad-tempered brat.
Luckily Hugo, Richmond and Anthea have more good-natured genes from their mothers' sides, so with Granville and Oliver gone and Vincent (the way he's going) unlikely to find anybody to marry him, perhaps future Darracotts will be nicer people.

[QNPoohBear]

Lord D is very old school. From his references to the troubles his grandsons get into, I'm guessing he means female trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if Lord D has a number of ilegitimate children and/or siblings. He was raised to take pride in his family name and that pride becomes his downfall. He's so certain his grandsons won't do anything unbecoming to a DARACOTT of DARACOTT! Even Claud doesn't believe it at first. Smuggling as a way of life is OK but only when the Lord's family doesn't get their hands dirty!

I do think Lord D learned a lesson in the end. Hugo just showed him how his obsession with his old family name has led to ruin and Richmond shows just how little that name means to the younger generation. Hugo, on the other hand, has "brass" and lots of it in spite of the "ol' gaffer" starting off as a mill worker. (There's another real life topic she introduces-child labor.) The grandfather worked hard and got ahead, made money so that his grandson doesn't HAVE to work. His grandfather was as conscious of the Darracott name as Lord Darracott! In a way they were a lot alike. Hugo never says his grandfather was a loving family man!

Lord D is now a broken man. He's lost everything that means anything to him. He can't bully his family anymore.

I like how Hugo teaches Lord D a lesson by NOT jumping to obey his every command. It becomes obvious as the story goes on, Hugo makes his grandfather wait. Hugo also doesn't go off and do whatever his cousins tell him and that leads Lord D to believe Hugo is "bovine." Vincent first recognies Hugo's tendency to levity though when Hugo announces how he lived in a hovel without a smoke hole, etc. Vincent is sharp enough to realize that was in the military in Spain/Portugual. Richmond too is well aware of the history of the 7th Hussars and knows when Hugo is joking about his background. Anthea sees it quickly, she's trying not to laugh at the dinner table but she resents her grandfather pushing her and trying to control her. Being severe om Hugo is her way of maintaining autonomy.

Lady Almira is awesome but she lacks a sense of humor and that probably lessened her chances on the marriage mart. She's very astute though.

I enjoyed this novel more on this reread. I think my problem is the same as Lady Almira's. I don't really understand when people are teasing like Hugo does and I don't appreciate it. It's also very difficult to convey that on page without getting into Hugo's head. The reader has to go along for the ride and find out what's going on as the story unfolds.

[Teresa]

QNPoohBear wrote: "Lord D is very old school. From his references to the troubles his grandsons get into, I'm guessing he means female trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if Lord D has a number of ilegitimate children a..."

Great summing up!!

[Abigail]

Good summary, QNPoohBear. I don’t have a problem with Hugo’s levity—I think he’s as proud as all the other Darracotts after his fashion, and when they assume he’s a rube he starts making fun of their attitude for his own amusement. He has enough self-confidence and independence not to care much how they regard him, at least at first, and he gives it up gradually as their respect for him grows. I enjoy all his teasing of Althea; they understand each other well enough and it become a form of affectionate play that stands in contrast to how seriously most of the Darracotts take themselves. Their dialogue continues to delight me.

[Teresa]

Hugo is an absolute delight!! I loved it when he stood up to his Grandfather. Taking his time when 'summoned' and when he told him he didn't need his money I was applauding :)

[Ceecee]

i liked the change of scenery, no balls no parties, no house callings, just simple country life. although this one may have been the extreme opposite of the london life, it was almost entirely set inside the daracott estate.

i also liked how the romance was pretty much happened/resolved in the 2nd act and almost like an after thought by the end

[Abigail]

You’re right about the structure of this book being unusual! I think in the stories that feature more adventure, Heyer tends to allow the couple to get together earlier so they can show how they work as partners.

[Jackie]

wonderful post, QNPoohBear! such fun to watch Hugo fool (most of) his family!

[Jackie]

Abigail wrote: "You’re right about the structure of this book being unusual! I think in the stories that feature more adventure, Heyer tends to allow the couple to get together earlier so they can show how they wo..."
now, that's an interesting thought...

[Ceecee]

plus i also felt that heyer really would rather write the adventure/ historical stuff, as i gathered from her biographies. the final scene made me think of a mystery novel in reverse, the "crime scene" being orchestrated by the family and we see it first, and the lieutenant being the "detective" trying to decipher the mystery after the reader had figured it out. maybe heyer missed writing her mystery novels?

my heart was racing when he insisted on looking at richmond's arms and i was almost out of breath laughing when hugo stabbed claud with a pin to make him cry out like that

[Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂]

Abigail wrote: "Good summary, QNPoohBear. I don’t have a problem with Hugo’s levity—I think he’s as proud as all the other Darracotts after his fashion, and when they assume he’s a rube he starts making fun of the..."

What I like about Hugo (well, one of the many things I like about Hugo!) is his levity! I like a man who can make me laugh! :)

[Susan in Perthshire]

Carol She's So Novel꧁꧂ wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Good summary, QNPoohBear. I don’t have a problem with Hugo’s levity—I think he’s as proud as all the other Darracotts after his fashion, and when they assume he’s a rube he starts m..."

Me too! A sense of humour, the ability to laugh at oneself is essential for me. I think that’s one of the reasons I love Damerel in Venetia so much.

Hugh is aware of everything that goes on and plays the others like a master. He’s strong enough to ignore the stupidity of his snobbish family but proves he can deal with them when necessary.

I like the isolation of the setting and the way Heyer focuses on a different set of tropes. I think when she brings together her historical expertise and her thriller elements, she is superb.

[QNPoohBear]

I love Damarel and Miles Calverleigh from Black Sheep because of their sense of humor but not Hugo because his sense of humor is having a laugh at other peoples' expense and it's more subtle. The reader is slowly clued in to what's going on. That's just not something that I, personally, with unique learning issues, understand easily, especially when I can't hear it. Maybe next time I'll see if I can get an audio book.

[Jackie]

QNPoorBear, I have found listening to a book often is a very different experience so you should try it, I think.

[Becky]

I found that unlike a lot of people here I didn't hate Lord Darracott. He was certainly selfish, snobbish and mean, and I didn't like his character, but I never hated him. At the end I even felt bad for him. I think it is because he respected (in his own very narrow way) the characters that I appreciated most (the Major, Anthea, and Lady Aurelia.)

[Jackie]

that's a good point, Becky.

[Jenny]

Lady Aurelia's entrance to that final scene is perfectly timed - do you think she was listening outside the door to judge the best moment? It would have been terribly improper, of course, but then ...

[sabagrey]

Jenny wrote: "Lady Aurelia's entrance to that final scene is perfectly timed - do you think she was listening outside the door to judge the best moment? It would have been terribly improper, of course, but then ..."

nothing is improper if no-one knows, and if it serves the purpose ;-) - Aurelia is not such a goose as to follow the rules when it does not serve her purpose.

[Julia]

I just finished this 1.5 hrs before midnight! I liked it overall. I have moral qualms about the ending. I knew from the start Richmond was up to something and disliked him the whole book. I loved the relationship between Hugo and Anthea because it was so funny. I like Vincent. And Lady Aurelia is just perfect.

But I feel sorry for Ottershaw and can't help but feel the entire family just cares more about their name than anything else.

[Susan in Perthshire]

QNPoohBear wrote: "I love Damarel and Miles Calverleigh from Black Sheep because of their sense of humor but not Hugo because his sense of humor is having a laugh at other peoples' expense and it's more subtle. The r..."

I don’t think Hugo has a laugh at other people’s expense - quite the opposite. He is forbearing in a way that few people could emulate I imagine. He may smile to himself at the rubbish that emerges from the mouths of Vincent and Lord Darracott but he is not making them the subject of his humour or a target for his wit. He is, in my eyes too tolerant, and too nice. Like Anthea, I wanted him to respond and put folk in their place from very early in the book.

[Jenny]

Julia wrote: "I just finished this 1.5 hrs before midnight! I liked it overall. I have moral qualms about the ending. I knew from the start Richmond was up to something and disliked him the whole book. I loved t..."

Yes, I feel sorry for Ottershaw too; and I don't think Hugo's justification that 'he didn't handle it well' is very fair. There's no denying that, as Ottershaw says, the whole family is colluding to cover up criminal behaviour, and though it's great fun to read I am a bit uneasy about how we're all dragged in to cheer them on.

All too often GH's aristocratic families cover up or condone crime (eg The Foundling, The Quiet Gentleman, The Reluctant Widow ... ) for the sake of 'avoiding scandal'; which may be very accurate in terms of what their historical counterparts may have done, but I am quite uncomfortable about the cosy assumption that this is all OK. Though to be fair, in some of those examples the crimes are being 'let pass' by their own victims, but that's not the case with The Unknown Ajax.

[Susan in Perthshire]

Jenny wrote: "Julia wrote: "I just finished this 1.5 hrs before midnight! I liked it overall. I have moral qualms about the ending. I knew from the start Richmond was up to something and disliked him the whole b..."

When I first read this when I was 13, I questioned the morality of their actions and felt it was definitely off. I feel it even more strongly, so many years later.

I was pleased during the book when Hugo stood up against his family and said laws should be obeyed and that there was no glamour in smuggling. Of course the family do totally reflect the feelings of many folk at the time and who ignored the possible implications of enjoying their French brandy as normal.

I have to say though that in The Reluctant Widow, I am in total agreement with how they decide to deal with the stolen papers.

[GreyGirl]

It can be hard, but we have to remember these books were written in a different age, and referring to stories in a VERY different age. For a noble family back then the Family Name was indeed sacrosanct - and if you were noble you were, in many instances, above the law anyway (and in other instances you could end up in deep trouble where an 'ordinary' citizen wouldn't). To be fair, it's not so different now in our current world - very wealthy/famous people avoid prosecution or a 'usual' sentence because they are able to pay off people/manipulate the system. And sometimes they are the 'victims' of sharp practice precisely because of their wealth/fame.
I enjoy reading stories set in different times because I enjoy 'experiencing' a different world and mindset. I adore Golden Age mysteries for that very reason - the way the police are sometimes treated/spoken to is unbelievable!

[Teri-K]

I'm rereading this right now, and have enjoyed reading this discussion from last year. This is one of my top 3 favorite Heyer books. My favorite things about Heyer is her witty dialogue, and this book is loaded with it.

I'm reminded of how much I like and admire Lady Aurelia, in fact one of the things I like so much about Hugh is that he admires Aurelia and Anthea pretty much from the start. So he likes strong women who know their own minds. Good for him! Plus, the two women are the only ones who realize how smart Hugh is, and that he's pulling their legs much of the time.

I don't know what Matthew and Aurelia's marriage is like, but they seem to understand and respect each other. I enjoy their interactions a lot.

One of the funniest things about this book is the way Hugh's Yorkshire accent comes and goes. And the way he spars verbally with Anthea, without being pushy. I loved the part where she asks him if he's going to stay, and he says, "Only if I get what I want." She pushes to find out what that is, and he won't say because he's not sure of getting it. It's her, of course. :)

Someone in the thread mentioned trying this in audio. I have listened to the audio version with Daniel Philpott, and it's very good. I wasn't sure I liked him at first, but once Hugo started talking in his Yorkshire accent I fell in love. He really captured Hugo's calmness, his sense of fun and warm-hearted nature - all with his voice. Excellent listen.

Well, I'm off to read some more. Every time I start this book I tell myself to take it slow and enjoy it, but it never works. I end up devouring it instead!