The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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Booker Prize for Fiction
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2023 Booker Prize speculation
The Deluge would be interesting and would trigger an obscure part of the rules whereby S&S Uk would need to distribute 1000 hard copies for retail sale in the first 10 days after the announcement. Currently it’s only available in an e-copy in the UK with no print copy due.
As per Di’s post elsewhere Demon Copperhead wins another prize in UK - James Tait Black
David wrote: "That list is a bit scattershot, but I could see any one of those books included. The Binyam in particular looks shortlist worthy (although I’ve not read it). The Warrell was longlisted for the PEN ..."I am about to finish it and it is in my shortlist now! Hope to see it longlisted at least
Robert wrote: "here's my list:https://thebobsphere.wordpress.com/20...
No Booker Logo this year :("
Very thoughtful list Robert. I have Mrs. S on tap for this weekend. Hearing some very positive reactions to it.
Some quotes from another Booker judge, James Shapiro:the Booker is definitely different, the Mount Everest, as it were, of fiction prizes, one that, more than others, establishes or cements a reputation, reaches thousands of new readers, and invariably generates controversy. And because Booker judges, who definitely feel the pressure, have to read over 150 novels, then revisit 30 or so in compiling a longlist, then reread a dozen or so in winnowing that longlist into a shortlist, then reread and debate those last half-dozen in choosing a winner, it is a very demanding, very consuming responsibility. It helps to have a committee, like my own, where there is a great deal of affection and admiration for one’s fellow judges.
I don’t write fiction, never have. If anything, serving as a Booker judge has confirmed the rightness of that decision: creating a world, populating it with characters, describing their interactions, their discoveries, the trajectories of their lives in chiseled prose while at the same time illuminating our present moment, is brutally hard, a high-wire act that only the very best at their craft can sustain for hundreds of pages. So reading over 150 works of fiction has increased my appreciation of how hard it is to write a good novel, let alone a great one.
And this from Adjoa AndohI’m looking for a book that transports me. I’m interested in a quality that I find expands my mind and my heart in new and unexpected ways - something that stays with me. I want to walk around with it and feel the vibration of that book with me out in the world.
And that book has no particular setting or genre or gender or race. For me, it’s about the quality of the story, and the sentences and the way they hook into my heart, into my imagination and my intellect - I want to be stimulated on all fronts. It could be a very tiny book, or it could be something enormous, I have no boundaries. It’s about how it works on my intelligence, my spirit and my heart.
Cindy wrote: "...creating a world, populating it with characters, describing their interactions, their discoveries, the trajectories of their lives in chiseled prose while at the same time illuminating our present moment"This is a key passage. He's describing a certain type of fiction that I don't personally care for, but appeals to a lot of people. In some ways, a classic Booker type of book. It sounds like he's looking for Middlemarch or, dare I say, Demon Copperhead.
it just sounds like he's having a terrible time lol
I like how he refers to the other judges as his committee.
David wrote: "Cindy wrote: "...creating a world, populating it with characters, describing their interactions, their discoveries, the trajectories of their lives in chiseled prose while at the same time illumina..."Mister, Mister is also in that category.
More data sets for you, Dylan:- https://www.instagram.com/p/CvKbWqjrq...
- https://www.instagram.com/p/CvKbH-zrW...
- https://www.instagram.com/p/CuFJOrToe...
- https://www.instagram.com/p/CvKj44SL5...
- https://www.instagram.com/p/CvHiFZ3rN...
- https://www.instagram.com/p/CvE7qTSri...
- https://www.instagram.com/p/CvJ5KlYrl...
- https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu1XfcPrb...
- https://www.instagram.com/p/CvK9jOrrd...
Not all of these are styled as prediction posts.
Some from youtube which you may have already seen:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpSGT...
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6K4S...
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io1QG...
I edited the post above to add some more that popped up throughout the day.There does seem to be more group think this year, as Cindy and GY have pointed out. I'm as guilty of it as anyone. Cindy, your question yesterday was a good one. I would be curious to see more books that aren't on all the prediction lists.
Tracy, great comments on some of the overlooked books.
I don't follow all the Booker predictions as much as some on here, but my feeling from passively observing the last few years is that every year there is group think at the prediction phase, and every year the longlist seems to come out of left field compared with that!
Emily wrote: "I don't follow all the Booker predictions as much as some on here, but my feeling from passively observing the last few years is that every year there is group think at the prediction phase, and ev..."I'm just hoping that there'll be some titles I actually liked this year.
Emily wrote: "I don't follow all the Booker predictions as much as some on here, but my feeling from passively observing the last few years is that every year there is group think at the prediction phase, and every year the longlist seems to come out of left field compared with that!"Very true. Last year was an interesting case. The Listopia was actually pretty accurate - save for the fact that the winner and another shortlisted book weren't even on it. But the other 11 were on the radar with few surprises.
My List:The Covenant of Water Abraham Verghese
Victory City Salman Rushdie
In Ascension Martin MacInnes
River Sing Me Home Eleanor Shearer
The Diaries of Charles Ignatius Sancho Paterson Joseph
Demon Copperhead Barbara Kingsolver
Wandering Souls Cecile Pin
Old God's Time Sebastian Barry
Chain-Gang All-Stars Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah
Birnam Wood Eleanor Catton
This Other Eden Paul Harding
A House for Alice Diana Evans
Wellness Nathan Hill
I’m glad to see Cuddy on your list, Robert.I just saw that Adjoa Andoh was on Bridgetown, which I thought I wouldn’t like, but loved. Perhaps Ms Andoh will pick Corey Fah…the book she’d like to see seem to be the books Mx Waidner writes.
Alwynne wrote: "Emily wrote: "I don't follow all the Booker predictions as much as some on here, but my feeling from passively observing the last few years is that every year there is group think at the prediction..."Me too. I saw on Instagram The 2023 Wronglist in which someone listed books they do want to see.
My Wronglist would have substantial overlap with my predictions, unfortunately.
I read once that art challenges or expands our world view, entertainment reinforces our world view. Let’s hope this year’s longlist belongs in the former group.
WndyJW wrote: “I saw on Instagram The 2023 Wronglist in which someone listed books they do want to see. I think you missed a “not”
That Wronglist unfortunately featured Losing The Plot and Corey Fah Dies Social Media
Just chucking in a completely left field title.Penance by Eliza Clark. Certainly something a bit different.
I'll give it a shot, though I'll be thrilled as long as Falling Animals is on the longlist. I haven't even finished the novel yet, and I still think it's the best book I've read all year. My list probably has too few Americans, it always does.. - The House of Doors by Tan Twan Eng
- The Sun Walks Down by Fiona McFarlane
- Age of Vice by Deepti Kapoor
- I, Julian by Claire Gilbert
- Unfinished Business by Michael Bracewell
- Man-Eating Typewriter by Richard Milward
- Old God’s Time by Sebastian Barry
- Falling Animals by Sheila Armstrong
- For Thy Great Pain Have Mercy On My Little Pain by Victoria Mackenzie
- In Memoriam by Alice Winn
- Chain Gang All-Stars by Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah
- The Covenant of Water by Abraham Verghese
- Riambel by Priya Hein
Great list AnnI think - Chai Time at Cinnamon Gardens is not eligible since it does not have a UK publisher yet.
That’s great list - you are a Julian of Norwich fan I see.
Hearing raves about Falling Animals on Bookstagram Booker chat currently to - think I might read it over weekend.
Mohamed wrote: "And this from Adjoa AndohI’m looking for a book that transports me. I’m interested in a quality that I find expands my mind and my heart in new and unexpected ways - something that stays with me...."
This is the judge for me, they put into words what I’m looking for in a great book.
Getting excited for next week reading all your predictions!
I'm chiming in with a few potential Canadian titles which (I think?) qualify for the list:The Sleeping Car PorterSleeping Car Porter
In the Upper Country
Fayne
Bad Cree
Great, Jen - I think we might see some Canadian titles too, especially since the chair is Canadian. I think those titles are all eligible, based on a quick Waterstones search.
Jen wrote: "I'm chiming in with a few potential Canadian titles which (I think?) qualify for the list:..."As a Canadian, I would love to see at least one Canadian on the longlist - especially if it's a book I haven't heard of yet.
I enjoyed The Sleeping Car Porter. It was, for me, just a solidly good book (which is not a bad thing).
However, Bad Cree was...not to my taste. I was not a fan of the voice - which, I think, was exacerbated by the first-person perspective. And then, maybe because I was already feeling somewhat disappointed, I was not impressed by the technical writing and ended up DNFing about 50 pages in. I would love to be proven wrong, because I always want to enjoy things, and if it's nominated, I will read it with fresh eyes.
Dylan wrote: "Jen wrote: "I'm chiming in with a few potential Canadian titles which (I think?) qualify for the list:..."As a Canadian, I would love to see at least one Canadian on the longlist - especially if ..."
Thanks Dylan, I'm sorry it didn't work for you. I haven't read it, but the premise sounds intriguing. The horror bent does not suggest a likley Booker contender, but it's getting a lot of noise here (as you know). In the unlikely event it's listed I'll prioritize it. I've actually not read any Canadian books this year (including Sleeping Car Porter) so am hoping the Booker list leads me to one or more.
Our panel’s predictions are out- you may recognize several of the names, as I think we’re all Mookse members, or at least lurkers:https://thereadersroom.org/
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Hearing raves about Falling Animals on Bookstagram Booker chat currently to - think I might read it over weekend."It looks very interesting - let me know if I might like it (and if - the ultimate accolade - Goldsmiths Listopia worthy). I hear the last 40 pages are an issue though.
Are you hoping to manage the 'reading the Booker list by the end of July even though it only came out in August' feat this year?
I would be very surprised if I had read more than 8-9 of the actual list which is my contention about prediction conformity this year as I have I think not seen a prediction where I have read less than that (other than ones deliberately designed to be left field). So for example in the always fascinating Readers Room predictions I think I have read 9, 13, 13, 12, 12, 12 as an example which I am sure is much more than most years
Well except you are trying to read anything that could possibly feature and will then complain you've nothing to read on holiday - see number 10 on my annual list of Booker predictions which works every year. 1. I will express my horror at the list - largely on the grounds of it not including books more suited to the Goldsmiths/RoC/International Booker - and announce I am boycotting the Prize. I will then read most of the books and enjoy them, but pretend I don't
2. We will (nearly) all get upset at the exclusion of one book
3. We will (nearly) all be horrified by the inclusion of another. It will then definitely make the shortlist.
4. The Group's favourite book from the longlist will fail to make the shortlist.
5. Australia and New Zealand are apparently, once again, no longer English speaking countries.
6. The list will include at least one book that isn't due to be published until after the shortlist date
7. It will include several that, particularly post Brexit, are hard to get outside the UK.
8. Many of the choices will be "obvious" after the event based on a complex analysis of the judges' past history that would put Ted Rogers to shame.
9. The judges will include at least one arguably ineligible book.
10. Gumble will have "only" read 10 of the 13 books. Having spent the previous 3 months hunting down ARCs of every possible contender, he will then complain he has nothing new left to read for the summer.
Under 3 I have my Instagram post already drafted - I just need the titleJudges: Have you noticed that our longlist actually has [sad mainstream book] on it?
Robert Webb: I don't... errr …
Judges: Robert... are we the baddies?
Mohamed wrote: "Great list AnnI think - Chai Time at Cinnamon Gardens is not eligible since it does not have a UK publisher yet."
Thanks, I'll switch it out with something else, then. I haven't checked the books myself, I just went with the eligible list, since I'm lazy.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Under 3 I have my Instagram post already drafted - I just need the titleJudges: Have you noticed that our longlist actually has [sad mainstream book] on it?
Robert Webb: I don't... errr …
Jud..."
Someone should check on Tuesday if all the long listed books have skulls on them..
Back to Paul’s list and number 8 I have been setting out my thoughts on judges preferences in my Instagram posts in advance this year.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "WndyJW wrote: “I saw on Instagram The 2023 Wronglist in which someone listed books they do want to see. I think you missed a “not”
That Wronglist unfortunately featured Losing The Plot and Core..."
Yes. I forgot the “not.” To be clear I wasn’t agreeing with that guys wish list! I just thought it was a different take on predictions.
I'm just curious which book will pull the Young Mungo of 2023.
Birnam Wood would be my guess.I think what hurt Young Mungo was how similar it was to Shuggie Bain. There was a sense of been there, done that.
I see a few sleeper picks from Yahaira's predictions.- Western Lane
- The Sun Walks Down
Plus others that haven't been super hyped:
- The Long Form
- Old God's Time
- North Woods
- Falling Animals
- This Other Eden
- Limberlost
- The Bee Sting
- Open Throat
- The House of Doors
- A Spell of Good Things
- Fire Rush
Solid list.
Other books I have read (or currently reading) that I would not be disappointed to see on the list:August Blue by Deborah Levy
Yellowface by R.F. Kuang
Enter Ghost by Isabella Hammad
The Librarianist by Patrick deWitt
Loot by Tania James
Small Worlds by Caleb Azumah Nelson
Lucy By the Sea by Elizabeth Strout
Bournville by Sebastian Coe
Others I would not be surprised to see on the list but not yet read:
The House of Doors by Tan Twan Eng
Reproduction by Louisa Hall
The Fraud by Zadie Smith
The Story of the Forest by Linda Grant
The East Indian by Brinda Charry
Paul wrote: "Well except you are trying to read anything that could possibly feature and will then complain you've nothing to read on holiday - see number 10 on my annual list of Booker predictions which works ..."On this number 9 was “The judges will include at least one arguably ineligible book.”
Not sure that happens every year - The Island eas the last one I recall
Any books this year which are getting eligibility debates
The three I have seen eligibility debated are
The Deluge - definitely no uk print edition (hence the debate) but there is a kindle edition, the publisher has a uk branch and the Kindle is being sold there
Grimmish - was ruled ineligible in Australia but I think it’s ok in Booker as self-published edition was not published here and the Aus date of it was within the cut-off period.
And of course Passenger/Stella Maris which are ineligible other than if Gaby Wood exercises her discretion at longlist (and then at shortlist/winner stages also).
With the McCarthy books, I thought they were eligible at the longlist stage even with his passing. It’s only later that the chair must exercise discretion? I don’t have the rules handy so I may be off.Last year we thought Seven Moons was ineligible, although I think we came around to the view that it was a different book from Chats.
No discretion at every stage I think. If they had not submitted pre his death there is no discretion. The author of the work must be living at the time it is submitted or called in. The work wIll only remain ellgible for as long as its author is alive through the various stages of the prize up to the time of the announcement of the winner, although this is subject to the discretion of the Director.
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The Mookse and the Gripes
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However, before I share the titles with the least predictions, I wanted to mention The Deluge by Stephen Markley. I don't think it's been discussed in this thread at all. Has anyone else read it?
In my mind it is both very Booker and very not-Booker. I don't think it will make an appearance, but I would be quite glad to be proven wrong.
3 Votes:
Close to Home
The Story of the Forest
The Shards
A History of Burning
Grimmish
Falling Animals
A Spell of Good Things
2 Votes:
The East Indian
I Have Some Questions For You
Old God's Time
The Way the Day Breaks
Hangman
Juno Loves Legs
The Heaven and Earth Grocery Store
Open Throat
Ordinary Human Failings
Lucy By the Sea
The Singularities
North Woods
Kala
Chrysalis
Limberlost
1 Vote:
Bournville
Neon Roses
The Late Americans
Rose and the Burma Sky
Kick the Latch
For Thy Great Pain Have Mercy on My Little Pain
Be Mine
Take What You Need
Unfinished Business
The Future Future
River Sing Me Home
Land of Milk and Honey
Time's Mouth
The Centre
The Trackers
Man-Eating Typewriter
Brother & Sister Enter the Forest
Ponyboy
Tom Lake
Poguemahone
Never Was
Your Love Is Not Good
Sylvia
The End of Nightwork
Quinn
Where I End
With Or Without Angels
BERLIN W
The Romantic
The Seventh Son
Trespasses
Penance
On the Savage Side
Sunburn
Cursed Bread
Plutoshine
This Is Where We Live
Ghost Music
If any of these make an appearance, the person(s) who predicted them certainly deserve applause.
Of course, we expect there to be a few books that absolutely no one predicted.