The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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Booker Prize for Fiction
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2023 Booker Prize speculation
David wrote: "What didn't work? I see it got three stars from you. Three from Cindy too. Lots of fives from a mix of people."I read it as an ARC many months ago David. The writing is very strong, but I found the story unrelentingly bleak and very hard to embrace. The fact that is is based on history probably made it more so. I agree with GY that is a very likely longlist contender but it won't be a book that I will personally root for.
I'm also in the camp of people who appreciated This Other Eden more than they liked it. There was something about the style that took me a lot of effort to get on board with, but I can't argue with it being a very well-written book, and some of the story beats were very impactful. It's actually stayed with me a lot more than I thought it would.Another book that has popped on my radar after a bit of bookshop browsing today: The Great Reclamation by Rachel Heng. It's another sweeping historical novel, this one set in Singapore.
Ben wrote: "…It’s another sweeping historical novel, this one set in Singapore."Do we have enough of these to make a longlist full of sweeping historical novels yet? Feels like it’s been a really strong year for them
We haven't talked much about Enter Ghost, but it looks like it could be a contender. David Naimon's interview with the author is terrific, for anyone currently reading the book or otherwise interested: https://tinhouse.com/podcast/isabella...
David wrote: "We haven't talked much about Enter Ghost, but it looks like it could be a contender. David Naimon's interview with the author is terrific, for anyone currently reading the book or o..."This does look great - I love David Naimon's interviews, but I think I might read it before listening. (I adored his series of interviews with authors revolving around the works of Ursula LeGuin.)
I am 2/3 thorough and must admit it’s not working for me - I had a similar feeling with The Parisien that I somehow feel like I cannot fully get into the thoughts of her narrators or “see” her characters and believe the dynamics between them. I think there is a personal issue also with this one in that I am just back from spending a few days with my colleagues in Israel
One has to wonder if Shapiro will be drawn to Shakespearean novels - I feel like he will either love or hate them. Enter Ghost and Birnam Wood are the two that spring to mind - even if I was not a great fan of either.
There is Lady MacBethad but not sure if that is Booker-y, I have not read it but it felt like it was a slightly surprising WP longlist omission.
Any others?
The author of The East Indian, Brinda Charry, is an academic that specialises in Shakespeare. Don’t know if there’s any Shakespearean influence in the novel though?Edit: Seems there is. One of the reviews says the main character based on a minor character from A Midsummer Night's Dream.
I think Shapiro might be particularly drawn to a thoughtful engagement with Shakespeare, but also particularly allergic to a less successful one. Enter Ghost sounds like a fresh approach, viewing Hamlet in a Palestinian context, but I've only read the interview and not the book.
And with Adjoa Andoh I note she narrated the audiobooks for the previous novels of Lauren Groff and Ayobami Adebayo who both have books in contention this year - A Spell of Good Things (an automatic entry) and The Vaster Wilds.
David wrote: "I think Shapiro might be particularly drawn to a thoughtful engagement with Shakespeare, but also particularly allergic to a less successful one."Exactly right I believe
I am so curious about how many of these connections will bear fruit. It will be wild if we get a bunch of Shakespearean novels, Adjoa-narrated authors, and Paterson Joseph.
As with every year, I’ll probably just punt when it comes to my predictions. I’ve been trying to read what I think the judges will longlist, but I’ve tried every year to do that, and it’s never worked out so well. 😑
My real hope is that Adjoa Andoh will be particularly looking for some great Ghanaian/British books - because Losing My Plot is in my personal shortlist.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "My real hope is that Adjoa Andoh will be particularly looking for some great Ghanaian/British books - because Losing My Plot is in my personal shortlist."Have you posted your personal shortlist here? Sorry if I missed it.
I have not But it would currently include
Losing The Plot
Hungry Ghosts
Corey Fah Does Social Media
And 3 of
Cuddy
The New Life
Demon Copperhead
Soldier Sailor
The North Shore
This Other Eden
Very much not a prediction just those books I not just thought very good but felt particularly drawn to
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I have not But it would currently include
Losing The Plot
Hungry Ghosts
Corey Fah Does Social Media"
Nice! I see The Long Form making my personal shortlist. It starts slowly (perhaps intentionally so), capturing the tedium and exhaustion of early motherhood, but becomes more compulsive over time. I am now thoroughly engrossed!
Grimmish would be on my personal shortlist. It's absolutely delightful. I'm surprised more people aren't talking about it.I'm still not sure if it's eligible, though, since I think it was originally self-published.
The Long Form is in my top 15-20 but probably outside my top 13
But_i_thought_ wrote: "Have you posted your personal shortlist here?"This is the longlist I'd like to see, a mix of books I've enjoyed and books I'd like to read:
- The Long Form - Kate Briggs
- Fire Rush - Jacqueline Crooks
- Never Was - H. Gareth Gavin
- Your Love Is Not Good - Johanna Hedva
- Hungry Ghosts - Kevin Hosein
- Sylvia - Maithreyi Karnoor
- The MANIAC - Benjamin Labatut
- August Blue - Deborah Levy
- Losing the Plot - Derek Owusu
- Mrs. S - K. Patrick
- The Fraud - Zadie Smith
- Corey Fah Does Social Mobility - Isabel Waidner
- Grimmish - Michael Winkler
That would be a great list!Grimmish should be eligible. The key constraint is when it was first published outside of UK and even if one counts the first self publishing that was 1 Jan 2021 which is inside the 1 Oct 2020 cutoff.
Love the nod in Grimmish to the goat meme (https://www.tiktok.com/@ivyandsophies...)
Technically the rules say the longlist should be 12 or 13 books. When did they last pick only 12? And would any jury actually do that? I guess as a Chair it’s a useful Solomon-like threat if two judges are fighting over the last book. “How about we pick neither?”
Ben wrote: "I have had to bite the bullet and commit to a longlist prediction to get a video up in good time...."Excellent list. Pleased to see The Way The Day Breaks - would be pretty much at the top of my list but little mention of it on this thread.
My list:Corey Fah Does Social Mobility
The Way the Day Breaks
The Long Form
Losing the Plot
Grimmish
The End of Nightwork
Quinn
Hungry Ghosts
Where I End
The Sleeping Car Porter
With or Without Angels
Riambel
BERLIN W, Or, mésalliance.
Some on that list, particularly last 2-3, not likely to make it. These ones didn't quite make my list but are more likely to appear and I'd be pleased to see them:
Cuddy
Shy
August Blue
Biography of X (though some interesting copyright issues)
Mrs. S
Only going on ones I've read - which for English language literature from large presses is a rather small sample set!
David wrote: "This is the longlist I'd like to see, a mix of books I've enjoyed and books I'd like to read:- The Long Form - Kate Briggs
- Fire Rush - Jacqueline Crooks
- ..."
I would be extremely happy with this list!
Paul wrote: "My list:"Great list too. I hadn't heard of the Roberts. It looks like another good one from Weatherglass.
On Grimmish, I wonder if the marketing for the book will hold it back or if that's even something the judges will see. For instance, the blurb on the front cover says, "The strangest book you are likely to read this year." Grimmish is a lot of things, but I wouldn't characterize it like that. It's one of the most nuanced meditations on the intersection of race and masculinity - and how they are both constructed and performed - that I've ever read.
That’s a bit more persuasive than Paul’s reference to the goat meme which has completely put me off the book
There's a cheekiness to the tone that draws you in, and then once you're drawn in there's a lot of serious work being done.It's not unlike The Trees in that respect, although there are major differences between the books.
A foul-mouthed goat is quite key to parts of the novel though. Disappointingly though the book was written pre the meme - so perhaps the child had read the book rather than vice versa.
I like novels about Shakespeare so I hope to read this at some point.The best book about the Israeli occupation of Palestine I’ve read is The Lemon Tree: An Arab, a Jew, and the Heart of the Middle East.
I wonder how explicitly political the Booker would go when it comes to a novel set in Palestine.
Apeirogon, longlisted in 2020, was an attempt to humanize both sides, (as is The Lemon Tree I mentioned.) My guess is the Booker would stay far away from a novel that was strongly pro-Palestine or strongly pro-Israel.
The Booker long listed, but didn’t shortlist Minor Detail, if I recall correctly.David, you’re selling me on Grimmish, and I’m always up for supporting Coach House.
Enter Ghost is very pro Palestinian I felt
Emily wrote: "The Booker long listed, but didn’t shortlist Minor Detail, if I recall correctly.That’s right. I loved that book.
Eric Karl Anderson's predictions video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8MNe...
Small Worlds
Mrs. S
The Fraud
Biography of X
In Ascension
Wandering Souls
Birnam Wood
The New Life
Demon Copperhead
In Memoriam
Soldier Sailor
The House of Doors
Cuddy
I will read In Memoriam this week but otherwise read all of those. No real surprises at all on that list I would say but would be a solid longlist.
In Memoriam is easily one of my top reads of the year thus far. I'd love to see it on the longlist but I'm not that confident it will be there. I agree that his list is solid, but we know that there will be some surprise titles on the list (and some major omissions) so I think much of his video may be wishes.
I'm here to beat the drum for Grimmish, too! Although I can't imagine it making any list. It's too good, maybe? Anyway it's one of those books that hits in completely unexpected ways. Visceral and brutal for a few sentences and then soaring into the poetic. Here is this real historical person who is mostly forgotten, but if remembered at all, he is known primarily for how much pain and suffering he could tolerate. It's a great story. It's a Christian allegory, and maybe a Christian criticism, too--forbearance in the face of pain and persecution is such a huge part of Christian evolved beliefs, Christian history, and Western art about Christianity, and to have these heritages filtered through the story of a forgotten boxer is really something. Also the Coach House book quality is great, what a joy to read a book with such great paper and such a good smell...
Although the judges won’t be reading that version.
I thought I'd throw in my predictions here as well. I will preface that I haven't actually read most of these (massively lagging behind with reading recent releases). This is more a wishlist of books that sound really interesting to me, some big hitters and some lesser known debut novels.- North Woods by Daniel Mason
- Kala by Colin Walsh
- Riambel by Priya Hein
- Chrysalis by Anna Metcalfe
- Falling Animals by Sheila Armstrong
- In Ascension by Martin Mckinnes
- The Long Form by Kate Briggs
- The House of Doors by Tan Twan Eng
- The Vaster Wilds by Lauren Groff
- Victory City by Salman Rushdie
- This Other Eden by Paul Harding
- The Covenant of Water by Abraham Varghese
- Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver
Great list. You've listed a few I'd like to read. I would love to see a tent broad enough to include both the Briggs and Varghese.
BookerMT2 wrote: "Not sure if any of the following will make the cut but I'd be happy to see any of the following on the longlist.August Blue
Kick the Latch
This Other Eden
Soldier Sailor
Fire Rush
For Thy great pa..."
Inspired by your list and a visit to a bookshop between Kings Lynn and Norwich I read For Thy Great Pain Have Mercy on My Little Pain and thought it was excellent.
I just finished Enter Ghost and while I think it was well-written, I hope not to see it on the Booker longlist. It may be impossible to write an even-handed account of life in Israel right now, but this was most certainly not that.
That reaffirms my sense the Booker may stay away from it. Although I do think Enter Ghost would be less controversial than a both-sides-deserve-to-be-heard take in 2023.
Cindy I agree - I say some more in my review
I wouldn’t necessarily expect them to stay away from it on political grounds. Supporting Palestine is not particularly controversial in cultural circles.
Based on reviews and discussion, I've been getting the sense that this year's pool of contenders is relatively deep. Any one else getting that sense too (or disagree)?
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The Mookse and the Gripes
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I read Sylvia twice, the second time to see how its stories interlock given they are temporally mixed. If it's Booker level, and judges like it or Neem Tree can submit it, then it's longlist at best, in my opinion.