2023 Booker Prize speculation Showing 651-700 of 1,356

[WndyJW]

Oh, yay, another book about a woman who’s losing her grip due to motherhood. From the summary of Soldier Sailor it sounds like the new mother either has severe post-partum depression or post-partum psychosis.

[Alwynne]

WndyJW wrote: "Oh, yay, another book about a woman who’s losing her grip due to motherhood. From the summary of Soldier Sailor it sounds like the new mother either has severe post-partum depression or post-partum..."

I know what you mean, that's why I didn't request an ARC, I've read so many books about motherhood recently - and it's not even a topic that personally affects me. Although what interests me is that, so far at least, I haven't come across any that discuss the potential physical impact. From speaking to friends these range from separated stomach muscles and difficulties with wound healing from C-sections, torn internal tissues, through to incontinence, for many who've given birth or been pregnant for an extended period it seems that there can be a lasting adverse impact on the body.

[Lark]

Someone please rescue me from my editing mode of reading!

I read the first lines of Soldier Sailor and immediately my brain yelled: "when it's two people, the correct expression is 'each other!' Not 'one another'...unforgivable!

Well, Sailor. Here we are once more, you and me in one another's arms.

[WndyJW]

Do we need yet another book about motherhood? The Lost Daughter, Story of the Lost Child, Boulder, Still Born, Die, My Love, Tender, Nightbitch. One need only read Chouette!

When would it would be correct to write one another, Lark?

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

When you want to unless you are a grammar purist (I nearly used another p word)

https://grammar.collinsdictionary.com...

https://www.grammarbook.com/blog/defi...

[Alwynne]

Lark wrote: "Someone please rescue me from my editing mode of reading!

I read the first lines of Soldier Sailor and immediately my brain yelled: "when it's two people, the correct expression is 'each other!' ..."

Doesn't it depend on whether you're thinking about rules of grammar or usage? I think that the choice of 'one another' in that example is fine/not uncommon in terms of usage. Not that that means it can't be irksome!

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

A page later she uses amn’t - this is informal internal speech

[WndyJW]

Amn’t? Amn’t isn’t a word!

I want to know if “me and x..” is now acceptable. Is “X and me” or “x and I” archaic now?

[Lark]

well I'm not defending myself. I'm just reporting on my runaway reading brain which is insisting on editing everything all the time these days. It could be my brain has been permanently injured by my recent need to copy edit my own book. I'm so glad copy editing is not my day job.

Wendy, I think Chouette hit the "crazy mothers" trend line maybe slightly too late, and that Nightbitch hit right at the peak. When I was looking for an agent in 2020 they kept saying "weird motherhood is hot right now!" I think thirst for this kind of book has waned a bit since then. Although I do think books about "crazed disturbed women who are not necessarily mothers" is still a thing. When I was shopping my next book the editors who passed all said things like "can't you make it more DARK and DISTURBING? More like Otessa Moshfegh?" which was upending, because I can't stand her books, but even so, as you know already, I'm going to an Otessa Moshfegh reading tonight! I'm really curious to hear how she goes about reading passages from Lapvona out loud, to a crowd of strangers.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

I can only imagine re editing

Really fascinating insights into book trends Lark - we are really blessed to have you in our group.

[Yahaira]

The Nursery is one of the few mother books that does bring more of the body to it. It was very visceral, close to horror, in that sense.

[Alwynne]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "A page later she uses amn’t - this is informal internal speech"

Not meaning to be perverse but I wouldn't necessarily interpret 'amn't' in that way, it's very common if the speaker/writer is Irish or from parts of Scotland - Kilroy is Irish isn't she? Otherwise if she's being deliberately informal then it's inconsistent as 'one another' is considered formal/slightly archaic so would be a rather laboured/mannered choice.

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Yes Irish although interestingly that really only becomes clear when reporting the speech of others - eg an Irish friend and an English charity shop worker

There’s this on physical impact.

And you know, men, men, men nod solemnly at that Blade Runner speech - tears in rain and fires on Orion - and they feel themselves part of a noble endeavour, believe they've experienced something epic right there with a beer on the couch. Here's my ennobling truth, Sailor: women risk death to give life to their babies. They endure excruciating pain, their inner parts torn, then they pick themselves up no matter what state they are in, no matter how much blood they've lost, and they tend to their infants. Your fires on Orion and your Luke, I am your father. Tell me, men: when were you last split open from the inside?

[Alwynne]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Yes Irish although interestingly that really only becomes clear when reporting the speech of others - eg an Irish friend and an English charity shop worker

There’s this on physical impact.

And ..."

Good to know. Although am obviously weird as quite liked that Blade Runner scene!

[Alwynne]

Yahaira wrote: "The Nursery is one of the few mother books that does bring more of the body to it. It was very visceral, close to horror, in that sense."

Thanks Yahaira, is it one you'd recommend?

[Elizabeth]

WndyJW wrote: "Do we need yet another book about motherhood? The Lost Daughter, Story of the Lost Child, Boulder, Still Born, Die, My Love, Tender, Nightbitch. One need only read Chouette!

When w..."

This could just be my personal birth/parenting trauma speaking (haha), but I think we have just begun to explore women's intimate experiences with birth and babies, especially at this point in history when there is very little community or state assistance. How many war novels have we had? Giving birth is just as deep and epic an experience as going to war, but it has been given short shrift in literature until fairly recently. I don't always feel like reading about it either (just like I don't usually feel like reading about war), but I'm very pleased to see the recent influx of novels that avoid romanticizing motherhood.

[Lark]

That's a really interesting perspective. Elizabeth. We've already talked a little about Reproduction higher in this thread, even though it's probably just out of the window for this year's Booker, and I can't say enough good things about it. It really does have something completely new to say about motherhood.

[Hugh, Active moderator]

Just a quick note to let you know I am still here and following the discussion. I am aware that I have not done much visible moderation recently but I am still following most of the discussions here.

I haven't read any of the contenders other than the ones on the other prize lists and a few outsiders from small presses, but I do have a copy of the Kate Briggs that I picked up in the last Fitzcarraldo sale and hope to get round to soon.

[Emmeline]

I celebrate the arrival of dark motherhood books. Yes, there are quite a few of them all of a sudden, but when I had my first child in 2016, there were none (well, maybe there were, but they didn't pop up in a search).

As Elizabeth has pointed out, there are many, many books about war. There are also endless books about midlife crises, coming of age, having affairs, being a child, facing mortality, trying to find love. By and large nobody complains when another one comes out.

I would agree that a number of the motherhood books in the last few years tread similar ground, but I suspect that is because most of them were written around the same time, by writers who had not read the others, and who were responding to the near-complete lack of dark motherhood books before.

[Emmeline]

Re: Amn't. There's a good line about it in Exciting Times

“Parents couldn’t change society,” Julian said “so they aimed for its inequalities to harm someone else’s child rather than their own. Julian’s mother had made that choice when she sent him to public school, and mine had when she’d told me not to say ‘amn’t’.”

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Great line from Dolan.

[Elizabeth]

Emily wrote: "I celebrate the arrival of dark motherhood books. Yes, there are quite a few of them all of a sudden, but when I had my first child in 2016, there were none (well, maybe there were, but they didn't..."

I had mine in 2017 and yes, if I'm remembering correctly it was mainly Rachel Cusk (?).

[David]

Emily wrote: "As Elizabeth has pointed out, there are many, many books about war. There are also endless books about midlife crises, coming of age, having affairs, being a child, facing mortality, trying to find love. By and large nobody complains when another one comes out."

This is an excellent point.

The first one I remember reading was Die, My Love. It was was so different from anything I'd ever read.

[Emmeline]

Elizabeth wrote: "Emily wrote: "I celebrate the arrival of dark motherhood books. Yes, there are quite a few of them all of a sudden, but when I had my first child in 2016, there were none (well, maybe there were, b..."

Rachel Cusk was the only one I found. Everything else looked to be a hehe haha memoir with a tone of "aren't husbands just the dumbest and don't kids say the darndest things?"

[Alwynne]

Emily wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Emily wrote: "I celebrate the arrival of dark motherhood books. Yes, there are quite a few of them all of a sudden, but when I had my first child in 2016, there were none (well, m..."

Rachel Cusk's A Life's Work: On Becoming a Mother was really interesting, I read it because there was such an outcry about it here, you'd have imagined it was a manual for killing babies! I don't have a problem with the rise in books on motherhood just that I've read so many recently - mostly really good from Mieko Kanai to Nettel to Kate Briggs - I think I need a break. Also as someone who's deliberately childfree it can sometimes feel as if the motherhood books are represented in the media as essential reading for women and fundamental to the experience of womanhood, disregarding the many women who are childfree or infertile etc It's also interesting how many books, despite railing against many aspects of parenting, are quite conservative and end up reinscribing the status quo - so the conflicted, accidentally-pregnant woman ultimately decides against an abortion, the uncertain single mother finally embraces motherhood etc etc

[Alwynne]

Hugh wrote: "Just a quick note to let you know I am still here and following the discussion. I am aware that I have not done much visible moderation recently but I am still following most of the discussions her..."

I was wondering about what had happened to you, really great to have you back!

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

Following on from the Penance NetGalley discussion a week or so ago - I had my “wish for it” in the book “granted” today.

[Alwynne]

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Following on from the Penance NetGalley discussion a week or so ago - I had my “wish for it” in the book “granted” today."

Me too!

[Elizabeth]

Alwynne wrote: "Emily wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Emily wrote: "I celebrate the arrival of dark motherhood books. Yes, there are quite a few of them all of a sudden, but when I had my first child in 2016, there were..."

Fair point, Alwynne. One book that looks at motherhood/parenthood/family a bit differently is Maggie Nelson's The Argonauts: A Memoir, which avoids some of the typical conclusions you're talking about. But yeah, I think you're right that childfree women's experiences don't seem to be well-represented outside of the Eat, Pray, Love romance adventure type narratives. (Have you read Sheila Heti's Motherhood? I haven't yet, but it's about her decision not to have kids, in fictional form.)

[Alwynne]

Elizabeth wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Emily wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Emily wrote: "I celebrate the arrival of dark motherhood books. Yes, there are quite a few of them all of a sudden, but when I had my first child in ..."

Thanks, I'm very familiar with the Maggie Nelson, a fascinating book. I did read the Heti although her discussion is also tied up with issues around Jewish identity and spirituality. And again although she's debating being childfree it still tips towards representing that internal debate/conflict as a somehow inescapable aspect of womanhood whereas some of us simply never had the slightest inclination but were forced into the notion of a debate by those around us.

[Phyllis]

Re motherhood or no, I enjoyed Mercy Street> by Jennifer Haigh last year.

[Robert]

Although I’ll be doing a proper prediction post in two weeks, I can already envisage these titles:

The New Life
In Memoriam
In Ascension
Demon Copperhead
Victory City
Cuddy



Due to the chair I am expecting some Can lit to feature

[David]

That’s a solid list, Robert. You always seem to do well predicting longlists. What do you think of Hungry Ghosts’s chances?

[Robert]

I would definitely add that - the topics hit the booker boxes: social class, colonialism , wonderful writing style

[David]

Looking at the Listopia, there are a lot of books that tick the Booker boxes. I don't know if it's more than in previous years, but it seems like it might be.

[Roman Clodia]

Alwynne wrote: "Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Following on from the Penance NetGalley discussion a week or so ago - I had my “wish for it” in the book “granted” today."

Me too!"

Blast - not me! Faber & Faber just don't seem to like me.

[Paula]

Hello! I know we don't even have a longlist yet, but is it too early to create a 2024 listopia? A good amount of eligible books have been announced already and I'm struggling to keep track.

[Paul]

Doug who sets up the main Listopia we and others use isn’t a member of the group. Worth sending him a message via comments section on the 2023 list or via DM.

Tends to be people from this group who do the International Booker one and some others.

[Yahaira]

looks like there's one already
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...

[Paula]

Indeed! Somehow I didn't find it the last time I checked. Thanks for help, Yahaira and Paul! I'll add the books I had in mind soon.

Getting back to this year, I made my predictions list a while ago but some other titles have come to my attention since then and now I'm questioning all my decisions. There are a few contenders that definitely sound like Booker books to me:

The New Life
Birnam Wood
The Fraud
Chain-Gang All-Stars

And probably Demon Copperhead too but it might have a similar fate to the last Mantel and will get longlisted but that's that.

[David]

The World and All That It Holds has a lot of glowing 4 and 5 star reviews on here. It's relatively high on the Listopia but I haven't heard it discussed as a Booker contender.

[Paula]

I wasn't aware of this one before. Sounds like it would compete for a spot with In Memoriam.

What about The Librarianist by Patrick deWitt? He's been shortlisted before. Has anyone read it yet? I haven't but anything with a retired librarian as the main character sparks my interest.

[David]

Another one that seems likely, but hasn't been discussed much here, is Limberlost by Robbie Arnott.

Here are GY's comments on The Librarianist, Paula: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

To Robert's point, DeWitt is Canadian.

[Robert]

I’ve heard so much about Arnott - if he does get a Booker nomination, I’ll finally get round to reading one of his books (I know I can read if at any time but I find that prizes are good at giving me that push)

[Alwynne]

Roman Clodia wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Following on from the Penance NetGalley discussion a week or so ago - I had my “wish for it” in the book “granted” today."

Me too!"

Blast -..."

Oh no! Maybe they check reviews? Didn't you have an issue with Boy Parts?

[Mohamed]

David wrote: "Another one that seems likely, but hasn't been discussed much here, is Limberlost by Robbie Arnott.

Here are GY's comments on The Librarianist, Paula: https://www.g..."

Limberlost is a wonderful novel. Wide ranging yet intimate and well written. It is shortlisted now for the Miles Frankling Literary award

[Mohamed]

Robert wrote: "I’ve heard so much about Arnott - if he does get a Booker nomination, I’ll finally get round to reading one of his books (I know I can read if at any time but I find that prizes are good at giving ..."

It is shortlisted now for the Miles Frankling Literary award so it might give you a push. after being shortlisted for the Dylan Thoms prize

[Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer]

I read one Arnott before which I found fairly flawed but I think was very different.

I had reserved a copy at the library but I have just realised the reservation has expired and I forgot to get it so will probably wait now and only read if longlisted.

[Paula]

I've read Flames by Arnott and still think about it from time to time. I've seen some beautiful reviews of Limberlost recently and would love to see it on the list.

Also, just stumbled upon a new book that wasn't even on listopia yet but sounds great - The Future Future by Adam Thirlwell. Apparently he's been named as one of Granta's best young British novelists before.

"Sex, revolution and death in eighteenth-century France and America, described in the language of the future, and featuring an astonishing visit to the moon. A dazzling performance, unlike anything else you'll read this (or any other) year"
That's praise from Salman Rushdie!

[Robert]

Thirwell was Goldsmiths shortlisted for Lurid and Cute - I don’t think it was liked over here