The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
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Booker Prize for Fiction
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2023 Booker Prize speculation
The only Taylor I read was Real Life and it just didn’t gel - EXCEPT one part and that’s the flashback involving Wallace’s abuse from his father. That section was full of heart and emotion, something I found lacking from the rest of the novel due to choppy style
Ah yes the 2020 list was the one that seemed like a spoof only after I'd read the books - How Much of These Hills Is Gold, The New Wilderness, Such a Fun Age, Redhead by the Side of the Road etc. Plus Who They Was which was all about real-life crime and The Mirror and the Light which was a crime against literature.
Has anyone tried The Wren, The Wren - one of the four ex winners eligible this time around.
I haven't. Your review seems positive on it (3.5 stars rounded up to 4): https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...I added Lone Women to the Listopia. With the right book and the right panel, I could see a LaValle on the Booker longlist.
I didn't hate Real Life. I think I gave it three stars. I liked the confidence of starting with a descriptive scene, which seemed old-fashioned and therefore not overly MFA. And there were some good scenes. But I didn't love it and I really didn't love the subject matter and I dislike when authors repeat themselves in terms of subject matter so I don't think he's for me.
I've only read Real Life by Taylor and I thought his evocation of the protagonist's internal world was superb, but at the expense of much else - I agree with GY about the lack of character differentiation. The whole book just felt flat and blank to me.
I just finished The Late Americans. There were things I liked: the character development was good- granted, there were few characters that were likable. I liked that it was set in Iowa City for a couple reasons. First, I knew where I was in the book. Second, the Midwestern season changes were subtle, but were very much a part of the story.
The stories were good, but I feel like they needed cohesiveness, and some of the characters were so…whiny.
I have no idea what I'll think of this once I've finished but so far guess I must be pretty whiny in that I identified with a number of the dilemmas he's raised re: class, ethnicity etc A lot of ideas reminiscent of Bourdieu's discussions of habitus also embedded here. The characters' responses to negotiating the shitshow that is contemporary America also seem not disproportionate, at least up to this point.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Has anyone tried The Wren, The Wren - one of the four ex winners eligible this time around."The publisher sent me an ARC of The Wren, The Wren, which I will get to soon. I certainly hope to like it better than a 3.5! Everything I've picked up by her so far has been an exhilarating 5 stars.
I've been reading what is Booker eligible from the Granta list and so far Mrs S is the one that has impressed me the most. I would love to see it longlisted
something about the writing immediately hooked me in
I read it some time back (it was in the Observer Debut list and then author was on the Granta list) -very distinctive but not really sure the sensuous but sparse style really worked for me. The sense of time and place is interesting - a lot of reviewers have implied the book is set in an unspecified time and even place and one gets that sense reading it - but it’s explicitly set in England and a series of breadcrumbs mean it’s set in the late 1989s/early 1990s (even though that makes some of the text seem possibly anachronistic)
What about Yellowface as a contender also. The author has already picked up a British Book Award Nibbie this year (and a Nebula award year) for her historical fantasy epic Babel: Or the Necessity of Violence: An Arcane History of the Oxford Translators' Revolution.
A book which is entirely about the publishing industry including awards, twitter storms, Goodreads flaming etc would be a very interesting edition to the longlist (not sure I would think it merited going further).
The book was released recently to quite some hype and is already topping best seller charts even in UK plus seems to be close to ubiquitous on Bookstagram.
Alwynne wrote: "I have no idea what I'll think of this once I've finished but so far guess I must be pretty whiny in that I identified with a number of the dilemmas he's raised re: class, ethnicity etc A lot of id..."I did listen to the book. The narrator might have made the characters that way with his intonations.
Class, ethnicity, etc. weren’t what I considered whiny. What bothered me was how some of the characters in relationships treated their partners. It seemed that they were on the edge of abusive with the complaining and put downs.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "What about Yellowface as a contender also. The author has already picked up a British Book Award Nibbie this year (and a Nebula award year) for her historical fantasy epic Babel: Or the Necessity..."
I liked Yellowface a lot more than Babel and the first Poppy war book. (I didn’t continue the series). It felt more cohesive.
Yahaira wrote: "I've been reading what is Booker eligible from the Granta list and so far Mrs S is the one that has impressed me the most. I would love to see it longlisted"I'd love to see it win.
I was quite let down by Yellowface, I have to say. I thought the premise was quite on point and interesting, but by the halfway point I felt that the story had already been told and I was bored. The second half of the book seemed to spiral off into something close to absurdity. It got a tremendous amount of buzz before publication, but it does not seem to have caught on much, at least on this side of the Pond.
It seems to have been very high in NY Times and Sunday Times bestselling lists immediately on publication but that speaks I think to the launch hype as you say.
Yes I checked the NYT list for this coming Sunday and it is not on it.
Seems to have gone 5,10,10 out of listWas number 1 on launch in UK - not sure what has happened since.
My understanding is that the bestseller lists are quite heavily manipulated anyway.
Which itself is a part of the book which is why I think the whole thing is amusingly meta - as is the fact we are debating it on a Goodreads thread. I think it would be a fun addition to the longlist but not to go further.
Yellowface is a book that I don't see having staying power on the best seller list. A satire about the publishing industry sounds relatively niche.
David wrote: "Yellowface is a book that I don't see having staying power on the best seller list. A satire about the publishing industry sounds relatively niche."It's even more niche when you read it David.
yellowface was fun fluff with some meta stuff for book community nerds, so I can see why it wouldn't have lasting power on a best sellers list. it was a quick read, but it isn't something I'll think about. the messed up timeline took me out of it and that's all I think about now lol
David wrote: "Yellowface . . . A satire about the publishing industry sounds relatively niche."To me, it was much more than that. Certainly it spotlights the publishing industry. And it also shows the struggles, confusion, and loneliness of young authors, as well as misconceptions about those who are successful and those not so much. But what I found brave about the book was the ways in which it looked at how we are becoming more & more pigeonholed (rather than less) -- by race, by gender, by sexuality, by culture, by origins, by religions and politics -- unless we find our way out of this, all of us in both literature and real life will find ourselves reduced to speaking only about our own navels.
Great comment.
I am keen to read Yellowface - it sounds like a more accomplished take on what The Plot tried to do. But I can’t imagine it getting anywhere near the Booker longlist, and I’d be surprised if it has even been submitted.Might just be my perception of the marketing though!
I’ve been reminded lately that the “best selling” “lots of buzz” books aren’t really that special, which is why they appeal to so many people.
My perception of the book might be all turned around. I'm surprised to see it has so many reviews on Goodreads. Her book from last year - Babel: An Arcane History - sounded more interesting to me.
David wrote: "... Her book from last year - Babel: An Arcane History - sounded more interesting to me." I enjoyed that one too. I think Kuang is a writer to watch.
I've read three of Kuang's books now including Yellowface and think she writes great page-turner fiction often with some underlying serious themes, but they're not what I'd think of as 'literary' (contested term!) more as thoughtful, fun entertainment.
Maybe a more likely WP contender when I reflect on it.
Throwing another couple out there. I always like it when the Booker has books that can be taken as being in conversation.
What about The Long Form (which admittedly feels more Goldsmith-y) and Soldier, Sailor (which is getting very strong reviews in the media and here) - I am trying both back to back this week.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Throwing another couple out there. I always like it when the Booker has books that can be taken as being in conversation.
What about The Long Form (which admittedly feels more Goldsmith-y) and ..."
Soldier Sailor is an accomplished novel. It reminds somehow of Second Place as they are almost the same writing style and atmosphere. I would not be surpsied to see it longlisted
Another novel that i feel like it would be longlisted is Take What You Need. It is coming this summer from Daunt Book, and it had really great review in USA
These are all new to me titles. I will definitely be looking them up.
Soldier, Sailor is absolutely fantastic and I hope it makes the longlist.It reminded me a lot of Gwendoline Riley’s work (who really should have been nominated for My Phantoms).
Soldier Sailor has been on my radar since I think Mohammed mentioned it a while back.I'm interested to see your take on The Long Form, GY. I pre-ordered it from Dorothy Project after seeing reviews from Alwynne, RC, Paul, and others, but it doesn't come out here until October.
Roman Clodia wrote: "I've read three of Kuang's books now including Yellowface and think she writes great page-turner fiction often with some underlying serious themes, but they're not what I'd think of as 'literary' (..."I agree, also not sure that the WP or similar fits with her brand, it tends to skew towards a different market than the one I assume she's aiming for. I also don't think she needs that kind of recognition.
Perhaps I am naïve, but I think that for most of the authors I find myself reading, I don’t think of them as “aiming for a particular market.” Obviously, there are authors that write only horror, or only romance, or only fantasy, and I presume those authors and their publishers, indeed, are aiming for a particular market. Those are not the writers I’m thinking of. The writers who my most admire seem to write what burns inside them to be written. I apologize if this is not the correct thread for me to express these views.
Phyllis wrote: "Perhaps I am naïve, but I think that for most of the authors I find myself reading, I don’t think of them as “aiming for a particular market.” Obviously, there are authors that write only horror, o..."You may well not, and the authors may well not but if they're with large publishing houses, as Kuang is, then marketing is central, even what the author looks like can be a significant factor in their books being taken on, in terms of how it impacts on the ability to build the author's brand. It's one of the things Kuang's talking about in books like 'Yellowface' in terms of not wanting to be reads as an 'Asian American' author. Also in terms of the mass of Kuang readers, she has associations linked to her as a brand, and those readers tend to be part of a demographic that skews younger and wouldn't want to be associated themselves with authors they perceive as producing 'dad lit' for example. I often, for example, avoid the titles on the WP shortlist as I associate it with a kind of book I don't tend to like or see as reflecting my identity as a reader.
Marketing overtook editing in terms of investment years ago.
Ben I am also getting strong Riley vibes from Soldier, Sailor
Hanging just finished Soldier Sailor I thought it was outstanding.
Alwynne wrote: "Marketing overtook editing in terms of investment years ago."AMEN - and it shows
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Hanging just finished Soldier Sailor I thought it was outstanding."A strong word GY. Now you really have my attention.
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The Mookse and the Gripes
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This author was long listed in 2020 which majored in American based authors and debut authors - with Douglas Stuart winning
The leaked longlist was 2018 - and has your favourite winner of the last very many years I think in Anna Burns