The Mookse and the Gripes discussion
This topic is about
The Trees
Booker Prize for Fiction
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2022 Booker Shortlist - The Trees
Mormons are retiring the name “Mormon” and refer to themselves as LDS. I’m guessing LDS books are by Mormon authors or are about church history.Some Mormon trivia: the cult favorite Napoleon Dynamite was written by a Mormon, as was the Twilight series. I was raised Mormon and my mother is still active in the church, my dad was until he died. I am well versed in Mormonism. Weird religion, nice people.
I found the humour confronting - it added to brutalness for me, though I can absolutely see why it wouldn’t for others. This was my first Everett, but it won’t be the last!
Janet wrote: "Rose Annable, I realize this is slightly off topic, but I ..."Apologies for remaining off topic, but I wish I could have included The Wire! Word count means I’ve had to limit myself to Breaking Bad and Succession, but I’d have loved to have used The Wire and The Sopranos as well
I love all the Golden Retriever poses - great picks for the books!
Tomorrow is one of my favourites ….
Finished - and this is 3.5 stars for me, rounded up. I felt the plot gets a bit ploddish, even though I recognise that the repetition is part of the message. Responding to earlier posts about the straightforward, rather than experimental, writing: while I do agree that this is straight on a sentence by sentence level, the postmodern sensibility comes from the way Everett uses popular genres, including film and music, as a vehicle to carry a serious political topic. Also his mashing up of references and allusions (details in my review so I won't repeat myself here), the collapsing of categories like 'high' and 'popular' culture, the pervasive aura of irony, satire and playful use of tropes.
I also thought the book strikes a difficult balance between making a painful point about the sheer numbers of people killed and the impact of generational trauma, without also making Black (and other non-white) identity one of perpetual victimhood - there's an important dignity here, as in the man who stands up to his about-to-be murderers and says 'I'll be back' (yep, Terminator!)
I love his resistance to the interview! And yes, Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal was in my mind while reading The Trees but I forgot to mention it in my review.
I am slightly worried now that if he is shortlisted he will be equally unwilling to answer questions or engage in panel discussions etc
Everett typically doesn't sit for interviews.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I am slightly worried now that if he is shortlisted he will be equally unwilling to answer questions or engage in panel discussions etc"Is this about live interviews? I know he's done some online interviews/podcasts recently, for example:
https://podtail.com/podcast/between-t...
https://themillions.com/2022/06/art-m...
https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...
And in the past for publications like The White Review:
https://www.thewhitereview.org/featur...
I should have said that Everett typically doesn't do extensive promotions for his books.
I love that Everett wondered if he was being unfair to white people, then said, “fuck it,” and kept on writing what he wanted.
Rose Annable wrote: "Alwynne wrote: "Rose Annable wrote: "lark wrote: "one thought I keep having while reading the comments here is that some of us wonder if such a genre-y book is worthy of a Booker. But this novel is..."Today I was reminded of the genre fiction vs literary fiction discussion when browsing Audible´s catalogue and not being able to locate the category ´Literary Fiction´.
Under the Category ´Literature and Fiction´ they have many subcategories but not Literary Fiction. One of the subcategories is ´Genre Fiction´ and guess what: Literary Fiction is now a subcategory of the subcategory Genre Fiction...
Ruben wrote: "Under the Category ´Literature and Fiction´ they have many subcategories but not Literary Fiction. One of the subcategories is ´Genre Fiction´ and guess what: Literary Fiction is now a subcategory of the subcategory Genre Fiction...."I think this is a good thing. It works against the prejudice that literary fiction is boring and difficult and its readers are snobs. It's just another genre. A better step would be to get rid of the category altogether, since it's so baggy and has no real meaning - only the implication that 'literary' means 'good', and therefore 'genre fiction', is 'bad'. I like to look at GR readers' shelf names for ideas for genre names. My local bookstore, which primarily sells used books, has sections for a few major genres (sci fi, mystery, comics, etc.) and then an entire wall simply labeled "fiction". Which I interpret as 'everything else' rather than 'literary fiction' - although I suppose it's mostly what publishing would call 'literary fiction'.
I stopped listening to the Book Riot podcast long ago because I got tired of their rants about snobs who read literary fiction. And then they'd praise to the skies books that would be considered 'literary fiction'. Why not just let readers like what they like and not judge?
Regarding "the idea of seeking retribution on the sons of the guilty parties," I do not see it is much different than hanging innocent people due to their skin color. Perhaps that is part of Everett's intention? (I am not saying I know, it's just a thought.)
I have the same complaint about Audible. I don’t like book snobbery, people should read what they enjoy without judgement, but I would like to have a way to find books like Bolla, Call Me Cassandra, or Treacle Walker, rather than books like Where the Crawdads Sing or Colleen Hoover books.
I also like seeing "literary" fiction as a subcategory of "genre" fiction. It helps me find the quiet, reflective books I tend to enjoy the most. I think "Fiction" is just too broad to be meaningful. Maybe we could eventually call it something other than "literary" to get rid of the whole idea of snobbery. I am an eclectic reader but have been accused of said snobbery just because I don't care for horror, thrillers, or romances. I like having a way to go directly to books I might enjoy rather than wading through bunches of books that have little appeal for my particular tastes.
The closest thing I can find on Audible is the Award Winners category (under browse/more lists and collections). However, that represents a small set of books (e.g. only includes winners, not long or shortlisted books).You can also do a search for "literary fiction", but that casts a pretty wide net.
Literary Fiction includes best sellers which are not usually the best books.
Yes, slightly surprising to see Rick Riordan and Richard Osman being grouped in with literary fiction! The idea of genre is an interesting one, but it is frequently frustrating - when I lived with two of my best mates I was constantly faced with the fact that one of them only reads literary fiction because all genre fiction is lazy and unintelligent, and the other only reads genre fiction because all literary fiction is snobbish and elitist. Those years are the best argument I’ve encountered for abolishing both terms!
Rose Annable wrote: "Yes, slightly surprising to see Rick Riordan and Richard Osman being grouped in with literary fiction! The idea of genre is an interesting one, but it is frequently frustrating - when I lived with ..."Strange of Audible to group in Osman and Riordan with literary fiction when they clearly write specific genre fiction (mystery & YA respectively). I also can't stand the genre vs. literary fiction argument- it feels like a constant battle between "literary readers" calling genre fiction trashy and unimportant, and "genre readers" calling literary fiction pretentious and snobby. As someone who enjoys several kinds of fiction, it's an exhausting, generalising argument!
Is this a book that Oprah might select for her book club? Some of her selections are very uncomfortable.
I am re-reading currently. I was pondering how “over the top” the book is and whether that’s effective or not and I came to this section when Mama Z challenges Damon on his non fiction book on lynchings and I felt it got at what Everett was aiming at. “Your book is very interesting," Mama Z said, "because
you were able to construct three hundred and seven pages
on such a topic without an ounce of outrage."
Damon was visibly bothered by this. “One hopes that
dispassionate, scientific work will generate proper outrage."
What did you get from that, GY? This is why I struggle with it. It wasn’t dispassionate and scientific, but the satire didn’t generate outrage either, at least not for me. Of course I’m outraged by the lynchings, but it this book didn’t create any visceral response in me. I guess for the Daily Show, Trevor Noah generation satire is how they get their news so I see what he was doing, I just question if it worked. For those who don’t know The Daily Show with Jon Stewart was a brilliant satirical news show and many young people admitted that was their source of news. Now it’s the Daily Show with Trevor Noah.
I agree this sounds like an Oprah book, Kathleen. The current Oprah book is another longlisted novel-Nightcrawling. Oprah is not afraid to make readers uncomfortable so it will be interesting to see if she chooses The Trees.
I’m reading more reviews of this book and it seems I’m the minority, Debra, I think you’re in this minority with me, most reviewers think it’s brilliant satire.
WndyJW wrote: "I’m reading more reviews of this book and it seems I’m the minority, Debra, I think you’re in this minority with me, most reviewers think it’s brilliant satire."I read this after it was longlisted so that might have affected my criticism of it. I thought it was good but not great satire. I understand satire allows for exaggeration, however in my opinion it started to become repetitive, and the writing style I found too conventional. I think it's a good book that addresses important issues, but ultimately the writing and execution is what brought it down in my ratings.
I suspect Everett couldn't care less about what white readers get from the book unless things materially change for Black Americans, which is an unlikely outcome from this or any book.
My library hold came in for this one. I've read about a third and am thoroughly enjoying so far. I really don't like gruesome books (though no issue with heavy topics) so the humour is very welcome.
Well, caught up on the five pages of discussion here, which were almost as good as the book itself. Not sure I have much to add, since everything has been said, but I will say that I'm one of those readers who isn't likely to read a straightforward novel about lynching but was happy to read this. The reason: Lyrical, tragic novels almost never convey actual tragedy for me as well as the bare facts. The Wikipedia entry about Emmett Till is more horrifying for me than a 400 page novel version with weeping and gnashing of teeth would be. What this novel paradoxically did was make me feel. Not in a crying way, but in a morally complex way -- celebrating the deaths of the KKK members, feeling bad for their families, enjoying the cops' banter, wanting them to solve the case, not wanting them to solve the case, feeling bad for the sheriff when his friends are murdered, remembering who those friends were and what they wanted to do... essentially, grappling with what it really means to have all that in your history, the same people still walking around, the same events, with variations, still occurring. The humour made it all go down easily and made the serious moments (the lists) a real sucker punch.
An absolutely brilliant treatment of this topic, which, like Rose Annable, I am used to hearing discussed with a furrowed brow and a pained expression.
That's a great summary, Emily, of what made this book work for me too and why it's such a refreshing approach.
Regarding genre, while this is clearly playing with genre elements I found it much, much more literary than The Underground Railway for example, which applied a light dusting of fancy to an otherwise very standard flight novel.
That’s a great take on the book Emily.
Great comments. My only note of caution on this book is that for me it was the only one of the 5 of my own shortlist that I re-read that did not reward me /give me extra on a second read.
I did not get around to re-reading Seven Moons but I think that would be great on a second read as it would be much easier to follow the novel’s pacing, trajectory and complex character list.
I was very disappointed in The Underground Railroad. Whitehead did nothing with the idea of a literal railroad that ran underground and stopped at the different important events in the battle for emancipation then equality.
Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Great comments. My only note of caution on this book is that for me it was the only one of the 5 of my own shortlist that I re-read that did not reward me /give me extra on a second read.
I did..."
I can see how that might be the case. I agree with Roman Clodia who said it was a bit plodding in places, which would obviously be worse on a reread. It's my number 2 for the moment though.
You didn’t get much out of a reread because there wasn’t much there to get. A Revenge story with ‘dad jokes’ is how I would describe it.
Judges on the book How would you sum up this book in a sentence to encourage readers to pick it up?
Part southern noir, part something else entirely, The Trees is a dance of death with jokes – horrifying and howlingly funny – that asks questions about history and justice and allows not a single easy answer.
Is there something unique about this book, something that you haven’t encountered in fiction before?
The Trees is a mash-up of genres – murder mystery, southern noir, horror, slapstick comedy – handled with such skill that it becomes a medieval morality play spun through 20th-century pop culture to say something profound and urgent about the present moment. There aren’t too many of those around.
What do you think it is about this book that readers will not only admire, but love?
It’s an irresistible page-turner, hurtling headlong with swagger, humour, relish and rage.
Can you tell us about any particular characters that readers might connect with, and why?
Ed and Jim, the Special Detectives (‘And that’s not just because we’re Black,’ Jim said. ‘Though plenty true because we are’) sent to investigate an uncanny murder in Money, Mississippi – a classic cop double-act with a nice line in deadpan jokes.
Although it’s a work of fiction, is there anything about it that’s especially relevant to issues we’re confronting in today’s world?
Everything about The Trees is relevant to today’s world. Everett looks at race in America with an unblinking eye, asking what it is to be haunted by history, and what it could or should mean to rise up in search of justice.
Is there one particular moment in the book that has stuck in your mind and, if so, why?
The horror of the first murder scene – and the last sentence. Everything between is an adrenaline rush.
Incidentally, this was eligible for the National Book Award last year, not this year. It was published in the US by Graywolf on 21 Sept. 2021.
Thanks for that info David. Guess I will have to remove it from my hoped for longlast books.
Here’s my review of The Trees which I enjoyed tremendously:Percival Everett’s novel, The Trees, which is on the Booker Prize shortlist, is a witty and surprisingly funny read which has at its heart the injustices of American society from the Jim Crowe era to the present. A (supernatural) crime novel which spins out with the surrealist plot line of a Jordan Peele film, the book begins with a series of brutal murders of white men living in the small Mississippi town of Money ( the real town where the young Emmett Till was lynched in 1955 for allegedly whistling at a white woman, Carolyn Bryant). Indeed the first victims are relatives of Bryant who herself appears as a character in the book. The twist in the murders is the temporary appearance at each murder scene of a black corpse which seems to have also met a grim ending. Inevitably the corpse disappears after its discovery only to appear at the next murder scene.
In the book Bryant’s character is regretful about the lie she told which led to Till’s brutal death. In reality she admitted to lying about the circumstances which led to the lynching. Two Black officers , Ed and Jim,( who are written with a wonderfully dry and ironic sense of humor which will compel laughter even in the midst of horror) from the Mississippi Bureau of Investigation are sent to investigate. A cast of characters who are vividly sketched by Everett weave through this novel, some villains, others ambiguous, and a few seemingly fighting the good fight.
At its heart this book is about social justice and the ways in which violence can be acted out against Black Americans ( and others) by Whites ( including law enforcement) with impunity and no regard for consequences. The evils of racism, even in modern America, are exposed unblinkingly and even casually ( this book sprinkles the N-Word liberally like confection).
Where this book is less successful is in its character development. The White racists are all portrayed as stupid backwater hicks with guns. In doing so Everett diminishes the true evil of organizations such as the KKK, perhaps intentionally ( to devalue them) however this also seems to detract from the very real threat they pose especially in post-Trump America. Even the protagonists in this story seem to be two dimensional stereotypes - wise cracking cops, wise/ matriarchal great grandmother, etc.
And at times the humor itself becomes slapstick, as with a trio of California police officers named Ho, Chi, and Minh.
That said, this is a book which slyly conceals through its humor a pulsing anger at historical and modern injustices which cries out for acknowledgement and retribution. The cultural references throughout this book, from the old Billie Holiday song, Strange Fruit, to the Maya Angelou poem, Still I Rise, speak eloquently of this need for Black Americans to remember their manifold losses and to retain their resilience, their hope, and their desire for justice to be served one day…before a tipping point is reached and restitution becomes revenge. Four stars.
Excellent review, Arun.Your last sentence, “…before a tipping point is reached and restitution becomes revenge,” reminded me of a sentence I saw and heard a few times from people in the Black Lives Matter movement: “you’re lucky all we want is equality.”
Arun, nice review. I see what you mean about the slapstick portrayal of the KKK characters. That was one of the parts I liked best about the book because I love seeing these evil people depicted as stupid buffoons. However, I now recognize that that depiction does minimize the dangerousness of these people, who have murdered many over the years. Thanks for giving me a new take on this.
That was part of my problem with The Trees, it’s not history, “lynchings” and the KKK are still a huge problem, especially as investigations have found a frightening number of White Supremacists in police depts across the U.S. Of course, that’s not all cops, but it’s enough that Black men and women have real cause for concern when pulled over knowing the notorious thin blue line mindset that protects bad cops.
I took the stereotyping to be revenge for similar portrayals of black people throughout years and years in film and literature. I think GY found a quote by Everett saying he realized "I wasn't being fair to white people ... " and then concluded "whatever." I think this book works because these seemingly poor artistic decisions are grounded in white-hot rage and a long tradition of equally bad decisions made by white writers.
Emily, undoubtedly you are correct and I certainly do appreciate that both from a historic and literary perspective. However trivializing these domestic terrorists is much akin to an American TV series in the 70’s which portrayed Nazi’s as a bunch of bumbling inept fools. There is danger in humanizing such characters in that doing so detracts from the immediacy of the threats they pose…
The Mookse and the Gripes
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That's one way of describing him, I can think of others but some unprintable! Although in comparison to the generation below him, he starts to look positively benign.