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How do you deal with rejections??!!
message 51:
by
Robert
(new)
Mar 29, 2015 04:40PM
Have faith in your own abilities my friends! Self publish. It's free! Don't feed the money machine that is the corporate publishing industry. They are falsely feeding us the lie that you won't get anywhere unless you pay them thousands of dollars.
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When I tried to get published over 10 years ago, I must have been rejected by at least 30 publishers / agents. Now I'm re editing those manuscripts and I see why they were rejected. You may have to come back to the work at a later date and look at it with fresh amd critical eyes. Until then, keep writing amd reading. When we read truly great work, it helps to show us where we need to go. Also, when we read horrible work, it shows us what to avoid.
Spot on Theodora. Never throw anything away but be brave enough to let time have its say. Few people get it right first time, but rereading at some later date can be a real eye opener. You will see the gremlins that you never saw before - though only if you want to of course. In my experience the most prevalent problem with self publishing is the editing issue. Even the most seasoned author will admit that one sometimes sees on the page what is in one's mind and it's often in need of clarifying. Think of the page as the spoken word between your imagination and your reader, the communication device, the mobile phone, the bridge between your two minds. It takes time. How many of us can sit at our first piano lesson then expect to perform at a concert hall within that first year?
Robert wrote: "Have faith in your own abilities my friends! Self publish. It's free! Don't feed the money machine that is the corporate publishing industry. They are falsely feeding us the lie that you won't get..."Legitimate publishers don't charge authors to publish. The money flows only one direction - from publisher to author. If you have publishers who are demanding that you pay them, it is a scam or a vanity publisher.
Yes, self-publishing is an option. The problem, however, with self-publishing is the one identified by Theodora above - authors publish too early, before they have become truly proficient at their craft.
Imagine, Theodora, if self-publishing had been an option ten years ago. Would you have sent those manuscripts out into the world in spite of the fact that neither you, nor your books, were ready?
Edited - to apologize for getting Theodora's name wrong!
Moonlight Reader wrote: "Robert wrote: "Have faith in your own abilities my friends! Self publish. It's free! Don't feed the money machine that is the corporate publishing industry. They are falsely feeding us the lie tha..."I so agree with "Would you have sent those manuscripts out into the world..." comment. I also believe that the urge to publish now, immediately, is the biggest problem of the independent author. I've finally stopped fretting about releasing my books and now am spending time on editing, design and formatting. I am guilty of hitting that "Send" button way too soon. I now proof-read and edit with the thought, "If I was reading this book...".
Ellen wrote: "Most of us here write because it's in our DNA. I chose self-publishing because I was doing pretty much everything when I was with a traditional publisher. I still deal with rejection - now from s..."I encountered the same thing from bookstores who don't carry print-on-demand books and even from my library, which put my donated book on the "back burner" because it took longer to look up the publisher. Before going the indie route, I had no idea that all books were not treated equally. It's just sad.
If a rejection offers suggestions, look back at your work as objectively as you can and see if they apply. Then revise the work if you think it's appropriate. A good thing to remember, too, is that the rejection may have little or nothing to do with you or your work. It may hinge on the personal taste of the editor, or whether the publisher is looking at the moment for the kind of thing you're writing, or perhaps most often, if the publisher's marketing department thinks they can sell it. And marketing departments are tough customers.
Diane wrote: "A good thing to remember, too, is that the rejection may have little or nothing to do with you or your work. It may hinge on the personal taste of the editor...."Just like the food we eat. All about the personal taste even on a narrowed down choice(like pasta made a certain way at a certain restaurant).
It almost sounds like we should be writing for mass appeal (if we want to sell) and not necessarily what we want to write about (wonder what Harper Lee would have to say about that).
Robert wrote: "We are living in the time of the great disconnect."You need to stop spamming all of the threads with your random, faux-philosophical drivel.
@moonlightdrivel you annoy me, oh unenlightened one.
Robert wrote: "@moonlightdrivel you annoy me, oh unenlightened one."You posted that same quote on at least half a dozen threads. You are "promoting" your self-published book of the same name. This would be what we call spam.
Have I posted a book title now, or any indication of a book title or website?
Robert wrote: "Have I posted a book title now, or any indication of a book title or website?"Do you think we are stupid?
Blocking you. Go away.
Take your menopausal crap elsewhere. Go knit a sweater for your cats or something. @moonlightreader
@moonlightreader make sure you flag all his comments as spam/inappropriate before you block him. I'm flagging each one, as insulting users who point out other users don't like spammy authors, is highly inappropriate.
A.W. wrote: "@moonlightreader make sure you flag all his comments as spam/inappropriate before you block him. I'm flagging each one, as insulting users who point out other users don't like spammy authors, is hi..."Too late. In fact, as far as I am concerned, it's better to leave up his spam, scam and attack so everyone can avoid his books.
@A.W. And I'm reporting you. I'm insulted by your accusations. The jealously within the reading community for those who actually produce and publish their own literature is appalling .
A.W. wrote: "@moonlightreader make sure you flag all his comments as spam/inappropriate before you block him. I'm flagging each one, as insulting users who point out other users don't like spammy authors, is hi..."I've flagged as well.
Auntie J wrote: "A.W. wrote: "@moonlightreader make sure you flag all his comments as spam/inappropriate before you block him. I'm flagging each one, as insulting users who point out other users don't like spammy a..."He is a delightful little piece of sunshine, isn't he.
Oh look, more to flag as inappropriate. Some authors just don't get it, Goodreads is for readers not spammy "authors". I'm using air quotes when I say "author" as I notice the person in question doesn't actually have an author account, nor does he appear to read any books, so he can't be a reader either.
A.W. wrote: "Oh look, more to flag as inappropriate. Some authors just don't get it, Goodreads is for readers not spammy "authors". I'm using air quotes when I say "author" as I notice the person in question ..."
He has one book on lulu that is the entire point behind his spammary.
Moonlight Reader wrote: "He has one book on lulu that is the entire point behind his spammary."I got that. It's kind of hard to miss when it's spammed in multiple threads. My point was he doesn't have an author account nor, according to his user account, does he read any books. If a person isn't interested in reading, why would they bother to hang out on Goodreads?
Oh, wait... I've answered myself... to spam people who do read books! But that presupposes that people who actually read, want to read whatever a spammer threw together...
A.W. wrote: "Moonlight Reader wrote: "He has one book on lulu that is the entire point behind his spammary."I got that. It's kind of hard to miss when it's spammed in multiple threads. My point was he doesn'..."
Yup. Speshul snowflake right there.
Robert wrote: "This is a crucifixion @a.w."No. This is pointing out a basic guideline about using Goodreads - don't spam. You're a new user, maybe you should familiarise yourself with Goodreads user guidelines?
Readers don't like spam. Although given your interaction on this thread it seems pretty obvious you don't care what readers think.
I agree with Ellen that most of us write "because it's in our DNA". I know I write because I love to amd wold do so even if nothing I ever wrote appeared in print. It's still hard to get summary rejections because you aren't a known name yet in writing. I just published my first book "Guardian of Butterflies". I self-published through a company called Friesen because I had a stack of rejection letters that were probably thicker than the book itself! I think it was a helpful experience, as now I know the steps that must be taken to publish a book, and when I say I was clueless starting out, I do mean clueless! I don't know if self publishing is the best way--it's certainly work intensive and with a publisher like Friesen, they take a gigantic portion of your profits. For me though,I am considering the cost as an educational expense. I have no idea, even now, how to approach an agent who would help an unknown author--if such a person even exists. One thing I discovered however, is that just because I received that stack of rejections did NOT mean it wasn't a good book! I started a website (not very effective) and a FB page (fairly helpful) and passed out free samples and now it's selling pretty well. I'm writing a sequel at the moment and am planning to self publish again--but perhaps this time just directly through Amazon/Kindle. Do any of you have suggestions for neophytes like myself? I'd say--or have been told--that my first book is comparable to what Judy Blume writes, so I do feel there is a market out there--probably far greater than I am even touching at this point. Any thoughts from you "pros"?
Robert wrote: "Take your menopausal crap elsewhere. Go knit a sweater for your cats or something. @moonlightreader"Stuff like this is pretty out of line, Robert. Please refrain from posting personal attacks going forward. It's fine to engage in conversations without promoting your book, but not if it's going to result in attacking other members.
Eileen wrote: "I agree with Ellen that most of us write "because it's in our DNA". I know I write because I love to amd wold do so even if nothing I ever wrote appeared in print. It's still hard to get summary ..."Your experience reminds me of my early days. I eventually got a publisher, but now I'm independent by choice. I'd be glad to help, Eileen - my e-mail address is ellen@whyteroseandviolet.net, if you want to discuss off board.
@Moonlight Reader, @A.W. @ Auntie J - Robert is not someone we need here. Blocked!
So let me begin by saying that I see I'm coming into this thread long after it's developed. We've already blocked Robert so the requisite troll has been foisted from our midst, and perhaps we can move forward. I have absolutely no problem with rejection. I've fetishized it, especially the form rejection letters, because there are just darn many of them. I save up the form letters and use that stack to justify the purchase of scotch when I get a personal rejection.
The personal responses, the ones where an editor actually reads what you wrote and then rejects it with notes, are in fact reasons to celebrate! They're better than a gold mine because how else are you going to develop as an author? Cash in that mighty pile of form rejections and pour yourself a tasty beverage (one, and only one ice cube please).
Honestly, my biggest problem with this process is the period between submission and rejection. I have difficulty dealing with anticipation.
Matthew, I'm okay with rejection but I do have a problem with the continuation of this archaic model of months between submission and response. Yes, the publishers are overwhelmed with submissions - perhaps they should narrow the acceptance number down to something more realistic for their schedules, or contract out the review process. It's unfair to everyone.
I cheated. Did simultaneous submissions when looking for an agent. Sent out 26 Queries over two weeks or so, giving everyone exactly what they asked for (# of pages, electronic or snail mail, etc.). Didn't fess up, didn't seem to matter. Five folks did ask for full manuscripts. I went with the first person who replied. Not only because she was prompt and wanted to rep the book, but because she "got" what I was writing about and how I was doing it, absolutely down to the ground. I contacted the other four folks who had the full manuscript and told them to stop reading it immediately. Only one complained, and she seemed to understand.
BTW, about six months later I heard from another of the 26 agents I queried--asking to see a full manuscript. So, yes, something REALLY needs to be done about this antiquated system, but in the meantime ignoring it might be helpful.
Please pardon me for a long-winded ‘get it off my chest.’ Pass this by if you want to.
Like many of you I started by writing one book and sending it out to agents and publishers. It wasn’t ready or course, but I had these grandiose dreams of being a successful author.
First Rule
Rejection letters are a reality check on your dreams. They tell you that it isn’t that easy, because if it was thousands would get published every year. They don’t. And neither will we unless we have both a quality product, and a marketable product. The industry is harsh and unforgiving. Get used to it.
Many have said above that you must continue to pursue writing the way you want to. Write what you know, write what you want to write, write what you want to read. Nice thoughts, but in the same conversation as questions like how do you deal with rejection, all wrong. You first have to decide what you are writing for. Is it the art of writing? Is it to just see your name in print? Is it to earn a living? Is it simply because you have to?
Second Rule
Writing what you want to read cuts your market reach to one: You.
Don’t think I am being superior, far from it. I wrote what I wanted to read. I read science fiction books in my youth until they came out of my ears. I love all the usual TV programmes, films and books. I have ticked them all off. But my writing urge is for a particular type of story and set of characters. So I also wrote what I wanted to read, and I still do. And I have to say I truly like all my books and all their characters. I have twelve of them. But I am their only fan.
I am a self published author, but that is basically irrelevant. What is relevant is that I am an amateur author. I write what I like and what I would like to read. Therefore I am not a marketable commodity that agents or publishers would seek out. I have come to terms with that, for it is what I am and why I write. I write because I like to, and I have an imagination that goes to strange places. It is not a job, or a chore, or a task that has deadlines. If I don’t feel like it I don’t do it. It is a hobby, one of many that are creative.
The most successful authors on Smashwords are Romance writers. They often feature on published best selling lists. They write in specific categories within the Romance genre and they do it very, very professionally, from cover to contents. And they do it often. They are professional writers and make a decent living at it because they target their audience and deliver what that audience wants to read.
Third Rule
Professional writers target a market niche. They write what other people want to read.
I envy the success of those who are successful, but I don’t want to write what they write. I can’t, because I am an amateur who writes what he wants to write and what he wants to read. I write about characters that interest me in worlds that come to my mind in my thoughts, musings and my dreams. These are not marketable decisions.
My trade paperbacks have been available on Amazon for nearly ten years. During that time many traditionally published books have come and gone, many with a very short shelf life. Most traditionally published books don’t make it. The returns policy that others have mentioned here is essential to the industry because most paperbacks go back to the publisher for pulping. This is a sad end to an artistic work that took many hours to create. So don’t be hard on the publishers. They have difficult decisions to make and they often get it wrong.
When I first pitched my work to publishers back in the Nineties I also purchased a Writers & Artists Yearbook. In fact I have several copies spanning quite a few years. I picked the right publishers and the right imprints for science fiction or romance depending on what I was writing and pitching at the time. And in some cases I spoke to and received good feedback from the editors responsible for them. Of particular note was Tim Holman at Orbit with Little Brown who looked at my first and rather sad science fiction offering and gave me some good advice without laughing. There was also Jane Johnson at Voyager with Harper Collins who I spoke with about my manuscripts on several occasions. The advice I received from both of them I took on board, but sadly I don’t think either would have sufficient time to converse with hopeful authors nowadays. Tim Holman is now quite high up at HBG.
The publishing industry exploded a few years later with the advent of the home computer. I wrote nearly all of my earlier novels on a typewriter, double spaced and with carbon copies before photocopying became the easier route. I now use a word processor and it is very satisfying to create and edit your writing that way. Gone is the trash can full of discarded sheets with typos or changes. The down side with digital writing and the more recent digital publishing is that now it can be all too easy. As others have said, because we can, we push the publish button too early. It is the reason for the stigma attached to self-published authors, and it won’t be going away for a while.
Forth Rule
Learn your craft, be as professional as you can and produce a quality product even if it is not a marketable product. Have pride in your work; make it the best that it can be. Then edit it. Then edit it. Then edit it…
I haven’t said anything new here. But the main reason for my post is even more obvious. The stigma attached to self-published authors doesn’t bother those successful Smashwords Romance writers. So Professional Writer doesn’t equal Traditionally Published Writer. It is the end user, the reader, not the publisher, who dictates the terms. And this has never changed and never will.
The Only Important Rule
Choose your path: Professional or Amateur, and then accept the terms that go with the choice. (and do it gracefully)
https://www.createspace.com/ A free trade paperback publishing platform supported by Amazon.
https://kdp.amazon.com/ The free kindle publishing platform supported by Amazon worldwide.
http://www.smashwords.com/ A free ebook publishing platform that serves Apple, B&N, and many others worldwide.
Like many of you I started by writing one book and sending it out to agents and publishers. It wasn’t ready or course, but I had these grandiose dreams of being a successful author.
First Rule
Rejection letters are a reality check on your dreams. They tell you that it isn’t that easy, because if it was thousands would get published every year. They don’t. And neither will we unless we have both a quality product, and a marketable product. The industry is harsh and unforgiving. Get used to it.
Many have said above that you must continue to pursue writing the way you want to. Write what you know, write what you want to write, write what you want to read. Nice thoughts, but in the same conversation as questions like how do you deal with rejection, all wrong. You first have to decide what you are writing for. Is it the art of writing? Is it to just see your name in print? Is it to earn a living? Is it simply because you have to?
Second Rule
Writing what you want to read cuts your market reach to one: You.
Don’t think I am being superior, far from it. I wrote what I wanted to read. I read science fiction books in my youth until they came out of my ears. I love all the usual TV programmes, films and books. I have ticked them all off. But my writing urge is for a particular type of story and set of characters. So I also wrote what I wanted to read, and I still do. And I have to say I truly like all my books and all their characters. I have twelve of them. But I am their only fan.
I am a self published author, but that is basically irrelevant. What is relevant is that I am an amateur author. I write what I like and what I would like to read. Therefore I am not a marketable commodity that agents or publishers would seek out. I have come to terms with that, for it is what I am and why I write. I write because I like to, and I have an imagination that goes to strange places. It is not a job, or a chore, or a task that has deadlines. If I don’t feel like it I don’t do it. It is a hobby, one of many that are creative.
The most successful authors on Smashwords are Romance writers. They often feature on published best selling lists. They write in specific categories within the Romance genre and they do it very, very professionally, from cover to contents. And they do it often. They are professional writers and make a decent living at it because they target their audience and deliver what that audience wants to read.
Third Rule
Professional writers target a market niche. They write what other people want to read.
I envy the success of those who are successful, but I don’t want to write what they write. I can’t, because I am an amateur who writes what he wants to write and what he wants to read. I write about characters that interest me in worlds that come to my mind in my thoughts, musings and my dreams. These are not marketable decisions.
My trade paperbacks have been available on Amazon for nearly ten years. During that time many traditionally published books have come and gone, many with a very short shelf life. Most traditionally published books don’t make it. The returns policy that others have mentioned here is essential to the industry because most paperbacks go back to the publisher for pulping. This is a sad end to an artistic work that took many hours to create. So don’t be hard on the publishers. They have difficult decisions to make and they often get it wrong.
When I first pitched my work to publishers back in the Nineties I also purchased a Writers & Artists Yearbook. In fact I have several copies spanning quite a few years. I picked the right publishers and the right imprints for science fiction or romance depending on what I was writing and pitching at the time. And in some cases I spoke to and received good feedback from the editors responsible for them. Of particular note was Tim Holman at Orbit with Little Brown who looked at my first and rather sad science fiction offering and gave me some good advice without laughing. There was also Jane Johnson at Voyager with Harper Collins who I spoke with about my manuscripts on several occasions. The advice I received from both of them I took on board, but sadly I don’t think either would have sufficient time to converse with hopeful authors nowadays. Tim Holman is now quite high up at HBG.
The publishing industry exploded a few years later with the advent of the home computer. I wrote nearly all of my earlier novels on a typewriter, double spaced and with carbon copies before photocopying became the easier route. I now use a word processor and it is very satisfying to create and edit your writing that way. Gone is the trash can full of discarded sheets with typos or changes. The down side with digital writing and the more recent digital publishing is that now it can be all too easy. As others have said, because we can, we push the publish button too early. It is the reason for the stigma attached to self-published authors, and it won’t be going away for a while.
Forth Rule
Learn your craft, be as professional as you can and produce a quality product even if it is not a marketable product. Have pride in your work; make it the best that it can be. Then edit it. Then edit it. Then edit it…
I haven’t said anything new here. But the main reason for my post is even more obvious. The stigma attached to self-published authors doesn’t bother those successful Smashwords Romance writers. So Professional Writer doesn’t equal Traditionally Published Writer. It is the end user, the reader, not the publisher, who dictates the terms. And this has never changed and never will.
The Only Important Rule
Choose your path: Professional or Amateur, and then accept the terms that go with the choice. (and do it gracefully)
https://www.createspace.com/ A free trade paperback publishing platform supported by Amazon.
https://kdp.amazon.com/ The free kindle publishing platform supported by Amazon worldwide.
http://www.smashwords.com/ A free ebook publishing platform that serves Apple, B&N, and many others worldwide.
Thank you David. I also write the books I want to read but I also have a small fanbase. It didn't happen over night and it certainly didn't happen from luck, but hard work that continues. The royalties I make are enough for a month's transit pass to San Francico - which is more than I'd make if I didn't write and keep at it. Rejections are reality checks and remind me that I can do better or find a different audience.
I think that most of the books that received a less than 3-star rating from me are getting a low rating due to being published prematurely.A whole host of problems is attached to premature publishing, but, most of all, the book will read like a first draft, filled with typos, inconsistencies, peculiar shifts in viewpoint, rambling paragraphs, huge plot holes, et cetera. All the issues that would be edited out if the self-publisher (sorry, but that happens much less often in trade published books), would take the time to use editors and beta-readers to polish their drafts before they publish them.
A rejection (or a review) that mentions any of the issues mentioned above, should signify to an author to take more time and ask for outside help (editors/betas/critique circles) before they push the 'publish' button.
Another issue that often causes rejections is people submitting their work to the wrong audience - either submtting a manuscript to a publisher who doesn't publish their genre, or self-publish in a genre with an audience that doesn't accept the author's originality.
There are genres were strict rules are staunchly adhered to. If you write romance without a Happily Ever After or, at least, a Happy For Now ending, you will disappoint an audience who expects either a HEA or a HFN.
Add to this, Martyn, professionalism. Internet rants and stalking readers won't win an audience. If you ask for a critique, don't respond with "What do you know? I'll do it my own way!" Consider each recommendation separately. They come from experience most of the time especially if you ask a colleague to critique, or a reader familiar with the genre. Rejection hurts, it's part of life as a writer, like a headache. Unfortunately you can't take an aspirin to make the pain go away.
Martyn V. (aka Baron Sang-Froid) wrote: "I think that most of the books that received a less than 3-star rating from me are getting a low rating due to being published prematurely.A whole host of problems is attached to premature publis..."
David wrote: "Please pardon me for a long-winded ‘get it off my chest.’ Pass this by if you want to.
Like many of you I started by writing one book and sending it out to agents and publishers. It wasn’t
ready o..."
Good post. Could've written it myself. Follows my path exactly. Not sure what is a HEA or HFN.
Ellen wrote: "Add to this, Martyn, professionalism. Internet rants and stalking readers won't win an audience. If you ask for a critique, don't respond with "What do you know? I'll do it my own way!" Conside..."I agree, but people who get more than their share of rejections should realize that maybe they are publishing prematurely or pitching their book to the wrong people.
David wrote: "Good post. Could've written it myself. Follows my path exactly. Not sure what is a HEA or HFN. ..."HEA - Happy Ever After
HFN - Happy For Now
Often rejections are for work that is just not good enough to be published. I know no one wants to hear that, but unfortunately sometimes that is the case. Sending in work that is premature or pitching the wrong people means the author didn't do his homework or ensure his writing met the standard required.Maybe the author needs to learn how to write and learn the rules of the language. Maybe he needs to read more and familiarize himself with the styles of good authors. A great story idea is one thing, but the author has to be able to write stuff readers want to read. Stories involving political or religious issues, or extreme ideals do not make good reading.
The entire process involves a lot of hard work, a great deal of time, and homework - knowing the readers and giving them stories they will read.
There is nothing easy about writing. If the author has done everything and are still being rejected - maybe the time has come to re-think a writing career.
India wrote: "Just received my first ever rejection letter from a leading publishing house with the usual words (I think) storyline and hook was interesting, but they are not looking now and asking me to get in ..."Publisher's are generally overwhelmed by submissions and so it's just likely that they only skim read much of what is on their slush piles, looking for something that fits very specific criteria. So never give up, keep writing, keep redrafting if needed and keep submitting.
Another tactic is to self-publish build a fan base/author platform that demonstrates to potential agents/publishers that your work has market potential. It's all about investment to risk factor, demonstrate that you are low risk and then...
T.H. wrote: "The first one is the hardest, but they don't get any easier. You should be querying about a dozen agents or publishers at a time. That way, if you get one rejection, there are still nine potentials..."Sorry have been out of circulation, finishing a book. Thanks for your comment.H.
Christie wrote: "In my 30 years of collecting rejection slips/letters I have never had one that says "Get in touch later." I'd say it's a positive rejection."
Thanks Christie. U have made my day. I now know that it is not 'go away'
Alp wrote: "India wrote: "Just received my first ever rejection letter from a leading publishing house with the usual words (I think) storyline and hook was interesting, but they are not looking now and asking..."I did self publish my first one. I was hoping to handover my second one to a publisher and forget about it as I had already started my third one. There is only one me and so much work involved in self-publishing
Geoff wrote: "India,After about 35 rejections I self published my book in paperback and later as an e-book, and low and behold the e-book was picked up by a 'real' publisher about 18 months later, and they rei..."
Thanks Geoff
Jon wrote: "Fade to black. Cut to commercial. Send the kiddies to bed. Don't take rejection personally. Don't look for any "magic query formula". Don't stop writing. The worst is yet to come (AKA, six t..."@Jon - Making friends is a good one. I go to the local coffee shop to write. I can't say I make friends as I kinda hover my hands protectively when anyone comes near my laptop. I am sure my body goes into a defensive mode - like I am protecting a child. Believe me - not all good for making friends! Coming back to your point, I cant stop writing. It is a drug I crave!
Ellen wrote: "Postscript to my first comment: You have to deal with rejection by family and friends - the people who don't understand why you don't have a book in hardback from a New York publisher, why you don..."I am coward Ellen. My husband, kids and my best friend are the only persons know that I write. I couldn't face questions on 'how it it going?' everytime I meet people. So this info is not as I know I would struggle to explain things to people!
Randall wrote: "Cherlina wrote: "Yes, rejections do hurt, but you still can't give up or you'll never reach your goal. I'm halfway there. I glad I didn't give up."I'm glad you didn't give up also. I wish you ..."
Thanks Cherlina
