The Old Curiosity Club discussion
A Tale of Two Cities
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Book Two Chp 19-24
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Kim wrote: "Mr. Lorry and Miss Pross...Sol Eytinge Jr...." (Message 44)
This is my favorite of this pair. Phiz probably captures the text best, but somehow they seem a little too guilty, whereas Eytinge, to my surprise, makes them appear worried and perhaps a bit guilty, but in a more realistic way. McLenan (sp?) makes them look possessed.
And speaking of obsessed, what was Eytinge thinking in his depiction of the Vengeance?! (message 45) Holy mackerel! I was not aware that the personification of liberty in France was named Marianne. Looks like she liberated more than the French people, haha. I'll never understand these wardrobe malfunctions in art history.
So, the US has Uncle Sam, England has John Bull, and France has Marianne. These symbols fascinate me. Are there such personifications in Germany, the Netherlands, or Canada?
Mod
The Sea Rises
Book II Chapter 22
Phiz
Text Illustrated:
"A moment of profound silence followed. Defarge and his wife looked steadfastly at one another. The Vengeance stooped, and the jar of a..."
Kim
Thanks for posting such a variety of illustrations. The analysis of message 32 is a deep dive into the illustration and the interconnections of the narrative. I like reading these commentaries as they draw my attention to much that I have missed or not paid enough attention to in the text. Sometimes the commentaries move beyond commenting on the illustration and move into the world of a close textual analysis as well. It’s then I realize how much is going on in the novel.
Mod
"Dragged, and struck at, and stifled by bunches of grass and straw that were thrust into his face by hundreds of hands"
Book II Chapter 22
Fred Barnard
The Household Edition 1870s
Text Illus..."
Barnard certainly captures the fury and anger of the crowd. With Foulon down on the ground we know what is to come next. If we needed a reminder a twin pronged pitchfork is raised in the back of the crowd. Soon it may be dressed with a human head.
Mod
"The End of Foulon"
Book II Chapter 22
Harry Furniss
Charles Dickens Library Edition 1910
Text Illustrated:
"The favour was too much to bear; in an instant the barrier of dust and chaff that..."
The commentary accompanying message 50 is very interesting as it traces the evolution of the illustrations until they are in the hands of Furniss. Each illustrator builds upon the past and then moulds the text into his own vision. Art is never static.
Mod
Sol Eytinge Jr...." (Message 44)
This is my favorite of this pair. Phiz probably captures the text best, but somehow they seem a little too guilty, whereas ..."
The Canadian equivalent to Uncle Sam, Marianne, and John Bull would probably be Johnny Canuck. This emblematic individual is not front and centre in Canadian culture. In fact, I would doubt if 10% of Canadians would recognize his image.
The name Canuck is, however, what seems to be the accepted word that is applied as a slang word for a Canadian.
Mod
Well look at that, once again we agree on something."
If we agree on something, then one of us must be out of their wits ;-)
Mod
For Germany, there are two symbols. The first one is Germania, who is depicted as a Hera-like woman with long blond hair, in full armour, a crown of oak leaves around her head, a sword (standing for power) with an olive-branch (standing for her love of peace) around its hilt, in her hand. She stand for the German Empire, not so much for the Federal Republic of Germany.
Then there is the so-called German Michel, who symbolizes the German people. Michel is often depicted in a night-gown but invariably wears his night-cap. I think this caricature arose after the French Revolution, and it highlights the German tendency to dream, to be gullible, docile and to submit to their government. When France fought for her liberty from 1789 on, Germans still thought that their governments would grant them more liberties. We are still Sleepy Germans, knowing well that our government is leading us by the nose, but being too submissive and slavish to do something about it. - I'd rather prefer the French way.
Here are some wikipedia entries on Germania and the German Michel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germani...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsch...
I think what comes closest to that for The Netherlands is Hansje Brinker. There is this myth (that clearly is not true because it is impossible) of this boy who sees a hole in the dyke, and stops it from breaking and the whole village from flooding by putting his finger in the hole as a stopper until help came around. As a symbol of 'niet lullen maar poetsen' (don't dick around, just work), do what is needed to keep going. And of course a symbol of us being good with stopping water from flooding the place.
Jantene - the story of the little boy plugging up the dyke is well-known here, however is it just coincidence that his name (which I didn't know) is so similar to Hans Brinker from the book by Mary Mapes Dodge?Peter - Canuck seems more related to hockey these days.
Tristram - I like the picture of Germania and Italia in the link you sent. Germania is obviously the strong symbol of Germany, but my German roots would seem to be better depicted by Michel: "he prefers a decent, plain and quiet lifestyle."
Thanks, all, for all of this information. I never realized Uncle Sam has so many international distant cousins.
Mod
Oh well, the NHL team in Vancouver are called the Vancouver Canucks. A very small consultation for us all.
Mary Lou wrote: "Jantene - the story of the little boy plugging up the dyke is well-known here, however is it just coincidence that his name (which I didn't know) is so similar to Hans Brinker from the book by Mary..."
At least the story is in that book, so I suppose it is. xD
At least the story is in that book, so I suppose it is. xD
Ah, I'd forgotten that. It's been quite a few years since I've read the book.
Mod
Three cheers for Hansje Brinker and his spirit of enterprise. We could need more of this in Germany right now because the German method is unfortunately not to do something about a problem when it arises but to sit down and ponder on the best thing that could be done in such a situation, the thing that not only helps right now but would help in all eternity, that would be the most inoffensive to everyone, that would not harm the environment, that would respect gender and other quota, that will cost at least double the amount of work and money than was originally announced and that would carry with it the least likelihood to still work when circumstances change a little bit. That is Germany.
I mean the English and the Scottish had Locke, Hume and Hobbes, philosophers that rely on reason. The Germans had Kant and Hegel, Marx, philosophers that lull reason into sleep with systems larger than life. The French had all those deconstructivists, philosophers that deny reason and reality altogether. I must say that from those three, I like the English and Scottish best and wish I were one of them.
I don't think that nowadays we're doing better per sé. Remember that we were imlementing face masks and other easy things way later than you did. We were behind with vaccinations. We have terrorism farmers now because the government waited with stricter ecological rules for decades ... I don't think we're as good as we have been when it comes to a spirit of enterprise as we were supposed to be.
And the English and Scottish might've had the best philosophers, but well, see what good that brought them eh 🤣
And the English and Scottish might've had the best philosophers, but well, see what good that brought them eh 🤣
Jantine wrote: "I don't think that nowadays we're doing better per sé. Remember that we were imlementing face masks and other easy things way later than you did. We were behind with vaccinations. We have terrorism..."Around here people fantasize about moving to Canada when they get fed up with--well, it's a very long list lately, isn't it? Maybe Peter would take all of us in.
Mod
You and all other Curiosities would be welcome, at least from my point of view. At times, when I read the paper or watch the news (both of which I am doing less and less these days) I am very thankful I am Canadian.
My country is far from a Utopia. I live in Toronto which is the largest city in Canada and, I believe the 5-6 largest city in North America. We have all the issues of big cities, but, it seems, fewer than other big cities by comparison.
To me it seems that there is less civility, more anxiety, dwindling health care and increasing bumbling by all levels of government. And then there are the winters, but that’s a different story altogether.
All in all, Canada is less than perfect but the only place in the world I would want to live. 🇨🇦 . Everyone please come and visit, but perhaps wait until the airport crisis is over.
Mod
You and all other Curiosities would be welcome, at least from my point of view. At times, when I read the paper or watch the news (both of which I am doing less and less these days) I am ver..."
Come to Canada? How can I do that? Didn't you tell me you were building a wall? ;-)
Mod
You and all other Curiosities would be welcome, at least from my point of view. At times, when I read the paper or watch the news (both of which I am doing less and less these ..."
Kim
No walls. And more good news. The Canadian dollar is worth less than the US dollar, the Euro and the pound.
I could see Madame Defarge maybe looking like a somewhat better-clothed version of Delacroix's Liberty.