"The Silmarillion" by J.R.R. Tolkien (BR)

[Ines, Resident Vampire]

(I selected July 9 simply because it's a little after the BotMs started and not too late in July. Feel free to suggest another start date if this doesn't suit you.)

Join us in reading The Silmarillion, Tolkien's epic backstory of Middle Earth, and in asking "wait, who was that again!?" every 25 pages.

Train your fingers as you constantly switch between the paragraph you are reading and the annex or have your phone/tablet ready and use these helpful lists:

Characters in the Silmarillion: https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Categ...

Characters in the Silmarillion with tropes: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...

Massive family trees: http://lotrproject.com/elvesmen.php?c...
(search with STRG+F)

Another massive family tree, but as a picture: https://i.redd.it/bia4imgxnve81.png

"Wait, what kind of Elf was that again?" https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Elves?fi...
or here: http://fortmarinus.com/projecttolkien...

Look at some Middle Earth statistics: http://lotrproject.com/statistics/

Also, please remember to use chapter titles/numbers, or in this case, Middle Earth timeline years are also fine, and spoiler tags.


It will not be easy. But at least we can help each other out. And hopefully, it will be entertaining.
Anyway, you will be able to yell "But it wasn't like that in the original text!!!" at your screen when the new Middle Earth TV series airs.

[Margaret]

*grin* I can help people who get confused. I bought and read it when it first came out, and many times since.

[Olga]

WOW! So many resources to go in while prepping till July 9! Thanks!

I've read the book in Russian (my native language) about 15 years ago and by now remember only the fact that I enjoyed it a lot. Not a popular reaction, I know :)

Now I want to read all the Middleearth books in chronological order and I've putting it off for years now. So, I consider this BR a sign :)

Will we meet to discuss the book when we finish it?

[Mario]

I would like to join also for the monthly reading

[Ines, Resident Vampire]

Olga wrote: "Will we meet to discuss the book when we finish it?"

Usually not. There is a monthly Zoom meeting (called "The Virtual Book Club", you can find it here: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...), but the topic is usually one of the Books of the Month, because more people read those. But we can always meet up in voice chat in the Discord clubhouse https://discord.gg/YjzQFPwYJB and chat about any book or any other topic! Some people get together there occasionally, we chat, play games and watch movies. We can do a talk about the Silmarillion or Middle Earth in general over there.

[Stephen]

I just reread The Silmarillion in March, but will follow the discussion.

[Olga]

Hi there!
I'm wrapping up Howl's Moving Castle today and looking forward to diving into Middle Earth tomorrow, maybe even will buy an actual book )))

[Ian]

For those unfamiliar with the "Silmarillion," it is a concise treatment of stories that J.R.R. Tolkien had worked on since about 1914, and had not reached a satisfactory (to him) state before he died.

(He had one version he prepared to be published along with "Lord of the Rings," but the publisher rejected it, and he began re-working the manuscript until it was no longer publishable.)

It was edited for initial publication by Christopher Tolkien, who omitted considerable material of widely varying dates, which would have badly unbalanced the text, and introduced conflicting versions of events. He also included material on later epochs of Middle-earth to which his father had alluded in "Lord of the Rings" and summarized in its appendices.

Some of the omitted or condensed material was later published by him in Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-Earth This supplements material in "The Silmarillion," from both the First Age and later. "Unfinished" indicates both that they may be incomplete and that the author left them in an unrevised state. (JRRT sometimes just started over, when emendations had made a manuscript too difficult to use, or he just mislaid it.)

However, the full range of additional material was published, along with drafts of "The Lord of the Rings," in Christopher Tolkien's massive "The History of Middle-Earth" series. This is not for the faint-hearted. It is currently conveniently available in The Complete History Of Middle Earth, Vol. 1, which omits the cumulative index.

Some of this manuscript material was repackaged by Christopher Tolkien, again in more coherent forms, as The Children of Húrin, Beren and Lúthien, and The Fall of Gondolin, which have been packaged together as The Great Tales of Middle-earth: Children of Húrin, Beren and Lúthien, and The Fall of Gondolin

There is also useful supplementary material in The Nature of Middle-Earth (subtitled "Late Writings on the Lands, Inhabitants, and Metaphysics of Middle-earth), edited by Carl F. Hostetter. It answers a lot of questions, but, again, is probably just a distraction from a first reading of the "Silmarillion."

Reading these along with a first reading of the Simarillion is not advisable! (Or even practical.)

[Casey Friedmann]

For those that have read them before, what is the best way to read the books for easiest comprehension? I've only read The Hobbit before now.

[Margaret]

Casey wrote: "For those that have read them before, what is the best way to read the books for easiest comprehension? I've only read The Hobbit before now."

I'd go with publication order (which is the order many of us longtime fans encountered them in anyway), at least to start out with. From The Hobbit I'd go on to The Lord of the Rings. If you find yourself reading the appendices to The Lord of the Rings with enjoyment and interest, that's a good indicator that you're probably ready to tackle The Silmarillion. After that ... consult Ian Slater's post up-thread.

[Ian]

I would agree with starting with The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, which are a whole lot more reader-friendly.

They also contained scattered hints of a long previous history, involving the mysterious Silmarils, the Elven city of Gondolin, Beren and Luthien, Earendil, and Elrond's family history. Curiosity about these may help motivate the reader to deal with the much more dense Silmarillion, in which all of these, and other, issues are finally explained.

This is useful, because much of the Silmarilion is dark and tragic: partly because of Tolkien's literary sources, like the Finnish Kalevala, but largely because it was originally conceived during the First World War. (Tolkien admitted that Morgoth's Orcs originally filled the role of German infantry on the Western Front, as seen from the other side.)

After that, Unfinished Tales, which has some fascinating side-stories that were not fully incorporated in the mythology, but which make sense only in the larger context of the Silmarillion (which, as published, contains more than the original 'Silmarillion' mythology, including extensions connecting it to Lord of the Rings.)

The three "Great Tales" make use of Tolkien's more detailed renditions of some of the Silmarillion material, which he re-wrote and re-wrote over the course of decades.

Their contents can be dug out of separate volumes of "The History of Middle-Earth" series, which is arranged by chronology of composition, so far as that can be determined. But those books are really meant for die-hard fans, and serious literary scholars. (I count myself among the first, and decades ago I dabbled in Tolkien criticism in fanzines.)

Tolkien's frequent changes of mind about relationships among the Elves, their tribes and languages, and even the names of of major characters, require patience and close attention -- and frequent use of the volume indexes to keep things straight. The volumes devoted to the evolution of "The Lord of the Rings" are somewhat more penetrable.

[Ellen]

Read through Valaquenta
(view spoiler)[You weren't kidding about being confused. I've making good use of the links and the index. I'm having trouble retaining what and who the different names refer to and have to keep refreshing my memory. By the end of Valaquenta I'm starting to get a handle on it. It doesn't help that the Elves have different names for some of the characters. I keep hearing the voice of Galadriel in my head telling the story. Looking forward to more. (hide spoiler)]

[Ian]

I completely forgot to mention the significant fact that there are two editions of "The Silmarillion," that of 1977, and, the second, which was published in the UK in 1999, and in the US in 2001. It has a slightly revised text and a long letter from J.R.R. Tolkien (to Milton Waldman, 1951) serving as a new introduction. The revisions are fairly minor (mostly corrections, including some to the index, some of which were previously incorporated in hardcover reprintings). There may be some confusion if someone references the letter, and others have copies which don't include it.

I also forgot to mention that, alongside the "History of Middle-Earth," there is a comparable behind-the-scenes book, The History of the Hobbit, by John D. Rateliff Originally published in two volumes (2007), it was reissued in one volume, revised and expanded, in 2011, including a Kindle edition. (This last has gone up in price rather steeply since I bought it in 2018, so I am not suggesting it to the casual reader).

Of considerable interest, too, is Douglas A. Anderson's
The Annotated Hobbit: The Hobbit, Or, There and Back Again, which is currently available in hardcover at a steep discount (although still more expensive the "The History of the Hobbit."

Finally (I hope) I should mention that there are illustrated editions of "The Silmarillion."

Perhaps the most interesting will be a pending release with Tolkien's own art (otherwise available in separate volumes, and at one time in calendars): see https://www.amazon.com/Silmarillion-I...

Unfortunately, this is very expensive: and has gone up in price a couple of times since I pre-ordered it back in March. The release date is, for the moment, November 8 (it has been postponed at least once).

[Ellen]

My edition has the letter but after reading part of it decided to skip it for now.

[Olga]

I also have the edition with the letter, read it earlier today. It was nice to have the author's perspective and an overview of the whole series.
I also finished Ainulindalë and went a few pages into Valaquenta.

[Ian]

Ellen wrote: "Read through Valaquenta
[spoilers removed]"

Back in 1977, my first impression of the Valaquenta was that it resembled a book on Classical mythology which listed the Greek gods, their alternative names and epithets, and the names used by the Romans when they adapted the Greek pantheon to their old religious practices. It also suggested the Old Norse poem in the Elder Edda, “Alvissmal,” in which alternate names for things (earth, sky, etc) are attributed to various groups (Elves, Dwarves, etc.)

[Ellen]

Finished it. My nerd self loved it. Here is the link to my review.
Ellen's Reviews > The Silmarillion

[Olga]

Ellen wrote: "Finished it. My nerd self loved it. Here is the link to my review.
Ellen's Reviews > The Silmarillion"

Wow, that was fast! :)
I also combine physical and audio book and find it much easier to keep up with the story. And yeah, the names. Even with the Note on Pronunciation, I'm often at a loss how to read them, so Martin Shaw helps a lot.
Can't wait to get to the dragons )))

My update:
Finished Valaquenta, two chapters into The Silmarillion proper.

[Olga]

Finished Chapter 18 Of the ruin of Beleriand and the fall of Fingolfin.
Reading The Silmarillion became a nightly treat before going to bed. And these tales are just the thing I need after having read Wild Seed. I feel the cleansing effect more and more by the day :)

Also, I've found an interesting playlist on YT that provides comments on The Silmarillion. And shows the things on the map!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...
I was struggling with the maps in the books, which have just about half of the places mentioned (why in the world do they make them so schematic?!?), then I found some more detailed online, but still it takes some time to locate where the things are. So yesterday, when I stumbled across this playlist and watched the commentary for the chapter I'd just read, it was so nice to finally put it all together.
Plus he uses fan art to illustrate his narrative, which I also find very helpful and engaging.

[Ian]

The original foldout map with the first hardcover editions of The Silmarillion was beautiful, but lacked the level of detail in the maps Christopher Tolkien drafted for the first edition of The Lord of the Rings, for which he could consult his father for additional details. JRRT was, for example, concerned that Gondor had enough arable land to support the cities, so space had to be provided there.

By the time came for Silmarillion maps, Christopher Tolkien no longer had his father to supply an “official” decision where there were problems and questions. There was no master map, just sketches made at different dates, and sometimes differing on basic assumptions, such as whether the world was flat and became round in an historical (for the Elves) cataclysm, or, as it was finally decided, was always round. This made some of the visual material incompatible. (In this connection Tolkien also changed the cosmology, which produced textual inconsistencies that had to be smoothed away.)

[Olga]

Thanks for clarification, Ian! I kind of understand the difficulties with the complexity of the world created by JRRT, but for me it's very important to visualise the story I'm reading and having a good map to put things into perspective made the process much more enjoyable.

I've finished Chapter 22 and still am under impression of the heart wrenching story of Turin and his family. Unlike the previous one (of Bergen and Luthien), here my hopes that at least something will go their way we're in vain. It made me so sad.

[Bonnie]

Ines wrote: "Anyway, you will be able to yell "But it wasn't like that in the original text!!!" at your screen when the new Middle Earth TV series airs.

Watching now
And I wish I'd started it with you guys in the summer!

[CBRetriever]

Bonnie wrote: "Ines wrote: "Anyway, you will be able to yell "But it wasn't like that in the original text!!!" at your screen when the new Middle Earth TV series airs.

Watching now
And I wish I'd started it wit..."

turns out the TV series only used the LotR and Hobbit books and the appendices to those as source material. Christopher Tolkien did not give them the rights to use the Silmarillion and other books as sources.

[Ian]

When I first head of Amazon’s project, and it’s limitations to what was in The Hobbit and LOTR, I wondered whether they would use material in the Appendices about the earlier life of Aragorn, such as his courtship of Arwen (which Tolkien thought was enormously important, including insisting a summary go in LOTR translations when the Appendices were otherwise omitted).

A little digging would have found his incognito exploits in Rohan and Gondor, where he served Theoden’s father and clashed with the young Denethor, who resented his popularity. Also his difficult relationship with Arwen’s father, Elrond, and his early connections with Galadriel.

Much crucial material on the Second Age was published with or after the Silmarillion, so telling that story was going to need a lot of inventions outside the later canon as published by Christopher Tolkien, including things contrary to it to avoid copyright infringement.

[CBRetriever]

I have a feeling that they might eventually get to Aragorn