Want to talk about the 2024 election? Possible candidates? Platforms? Predictions? Showing 1,351-1,400 of 1,997

[J.]

If you want to dive into the Election of '72, try Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72. It twisted my perspective.

[Papaphilly]

Graeme wrote: "Kiri wrote: "Trump is not pro vaccine anything.. He courts the anti-vax and etc crowd...."

I (possibly) stand corrected.

[1] During the 2024 SOTU he boasted about operation warp speed and took cr..."

He is playing politics. This case may work because none of the Democrats gave him credit.

[Papaphilly]

Kiri wrote: "Has anyone here, other than myself, read Project 2025 from the GOP?"

I have and it is not from the GOP but the Heritage Foundation. Your statement claiming it is a GOP group is no more accurate than saying Black Lives Matter, ANTIFA, Truthout, MoveOn, or Facebook are DNC organizations.

[Papaphilly]

J. wrote: "If you want to dive into the Election of '72, try Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72. It twisted my perspective."

That book twisted lots of perspectives. One of the truly great reads of Gonzo Journalism.

[J.]

In all honesty, I could see versions of the Ibogaine Scandal and the Sunshine Special happening in this cycle.

I'm deciding on what to stock the bar with for the upcoming debate. I'm leaning towards Jack Daniels, perhaps Gentleman Jack.

[Papaphilly]

Kiri wrote: "Ian wrote: "Beau, as I understand it, unless the Constitution is torn up, If Biden were President and pops it then Harris is POTUS. No choice. If the alleged Deep State refuses to comply with legit..."

The Deep State exists. Right now it means the left, but both sides have it. It is all of the players not elected that mean to see their side continue leading. It is the nature of government and the realities that keep government running. The wingnut presses, the military complex, the social justice warriors, the far right and the far left are all part of the deep state.

When politicians do stupid things such as getting rid of the filibuster, that is not deep state, that is politics. It may be called deep state as a pejorative, but it is not. Politicians my even work with deep state players, but it is politics too.

[Papaphilly]

J. wrote: "In all honesty, I could see versions of the Ibogaine Scandal and the Sunshine Special happening in this cycle.

I'm deciding on what to stock the bar with for the upcoming debate. I'm leaning towar..."

Good scotch. Maybe Woodford Reserve Double Oaked.

[J.]

The thing is, I don't plan on sipping my whiskey while listening to the great political minds of our age. If Biden or Trump are the William F. Buckley of our time, humanity is doomed.

I intend to get hammered. So I am debating on which intoxicant will make the yelling and "stuttering" interesting. But not make me regret the price tag more than the hangover.

[Nik]

He might have an advice: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/box...

[Papaphilly]

J. wrote: "The thing is, I don't plan on sipping my whiskey while listening to the great political minds of our age. If Biden or Trump are the William F. Buckley of our time, humanity is doomed.

I intend to ..."

If you sip long enough, you get hammered....

[Ian]

Back to sets, J., the size of the set is irrelevant in a logic argument because the set operates as one term in a statement.

My comment was based on what Aristotle wrote, namely the whole is more than the sum of the parts. This translates as the set comprises the elements and the rule that conveys set membership. That means that if you find more data, you know whether or not they are elements of the set. It is the rule that is used for logic arguments.

[Graeme]

Set theory and inheritence for nested sets are key parts of my framework architecture for understanding events...

Just saying. 😁😉😎

[J.]

Papaphilly wrote: "If you sip long enough, you get hammered...."

True. But I don't earn enough to get hammered on top shelf liquor. When I buy quality, I want to get every last bit out out of it. So, when I break out the good stuff, I sip slow. I aim for a warm buzz, and enjoy it.

Trump v Biden II will be Dem leaning moderators cutting Trump's mic, and Uncle Joe hopped up on enough uppers to stir Hunter S. Thompson's ashes to life. It portends hard times like lightning precedes thunder. The only rational course is to deaden my soul with alcohol until I can laugh without losing my tenuous grip on sanity.

[J.]

Ian,

This isn't a logical argument. It's a discussion about politics.

While Bertrand Russell might concur (with reservations) that set size is not absolutely necessary in a logical argument. In statistical analysis n(sub 1)>n(sub 2) is a big deal.

[Ian]

J., of course it is a discussion. My only real point is that Kiri's opinion is as valid as anyone else's.

I admit to having a thing about sets and logic as i have used set and matrix manipulation in about 30 of my scientific publications, so sometimes I can't help myself :-(

[Papaphilly]

Ian wrote: "J., of course it is a discussion. My only real point is that Kiri's opinion is as valid as anyone else's.

I admit to having a thing about sets and logic as i have used set and matrix manipulation ..."

Who saying her opinion is not as valid? Yet, if she states an opinion, she needs to defend the opinion to be taken seriously. We all follow that cardinal rule.

[Ian]

I think she has defended her view. She may not have convinced others, but that is difficult in politics.

[Scout]

Ian, you knew exactly where to put post 1334 or you could have made a new French thread instead of hijacking this one.

[Scout]

Graeme, I agree with your post 1331. Nice reference to Plato :-)

Beau, your mention of Trump possibly being assassinated is not a new one. I think of it every time I watch him address a crowd and hope he survives. Whatever you think of him personally, he lives what he believes, and he proves over and over that he loves this country. He does put our country first, unlike Biden.

[Ian]

Scout wrote: "Ian, you knew exactly where to put post 1334 or you could have made a new French thread instead of hijacking this one."

Hijacking:?? I think you are about the third or fourth to respond. Others have gone off onto the UK election. However, if this hurts your sense of the importance of Trump vs Biden, I apologize.

[Scout]

Papa said about Kiri, "Who saying her opinion is not as valid? Yet, if she states an opinion, she needs to defend the opinion to be taken seriously. We all follow that cardinal rule."

That's true. Just because she's new here, that doesn't mean she can just state opinions without supporting them with facts. In a serious discussion, one has to support one's argument with something more than opinion.

[Ian]

Scout wrote: "Graeme, I agree with your post 1331. Nice reference to Plato :-)

Beau, your mention of Trump possibly being assassinated is not a new one. I think of it every time I watch him address a crowd and ..."

"He does put our country first, unlike Biden." Are you sure? Trump may merely want power and admiration. If he really loved the country, as opposed to his own views, he would have ensure the Supreme Court was politically balanced.

Also, just because Biden has certain presentation problems, you can't say he doesn't love his country. He just has different ideas where it should be going.

[Papaphilly]

Ian wrote: "Scout wrote: "Graeme, I agree with your post 1331. Nice reference to Plato :-)

Beau, your mention of Trump possibly being assassinated is not a new one. I think of it every time I watch him addres..."

Oddly enough, over the long haul, the Supreme Court balances out. For over 40 years the court leaned left and now it leans right. It will lean left again at some point.

[Ian]

That is almost certainly true, but wouldn't it be better to have it always balanced?

[J.]

It depends. If you want the highest court in the land to be political, then it would be better to have it in perfect balance. That way it will never make a ruling.

If you want it to be an apolitical body which is only divided along legal theories of interpretation, then a bias is preferable, so long as that bias is in flavor of the agency of people and the limitation of powers.

[Ian]

If someone brings a case to the Supreme Court, surely it has to make a ruling. It can't just sit there and ignore the world. If the rulings come down with only one vote in favour of the majority, then the politicians should revisit the law to clarify it, surely.

[J.]

If SCOTUS doesn't give a decision, then the ruling of the lower court stands.

[Kiri]

Beau wrote: "Jun 11, 2024 08:21AM."
1. You said you're concerned about Biden's age. Who would be your ideal DNC candidate, if (for whatever reason) he doesn't run?
As I'm not a Democrat, there isn't one.
I don't have an ideal candidate in any of the political flavors this round.

2. What is your opinion of RFK Jr?
He's a political distraction. I don't think he offers anything of worth.

----
J. wrote: Jun 11, 2024 02:28PM"
Without getting personal, how does the sphere of people you cited break down in size?

ok there are several posts regarding this in/of various angles. While they may constitute a "set", they are at best apocryphal as they are not scientifically done and based on private or communal conversations in small groups. To try to answer J.'s question the largest group would have been ~ 30, but not all participated, most are >5, many 1-1. Overall I'd say total active participants (to date as of today.. ) maybe 60-70. They cross personal (including family*) and work boundaries. They are not all in person, some are via telecommuncation (audio and/or visual). They are all national, but not in all states. I don't want to specifiy the states or regions, but only two states in the deep south (other than Texas are included. None of the my are my opinions, but they are colored by my perceptions of the conversations and opinions expressed. (* my family has widespread religious stances and political opinions. (yes I mean the the spectrum and yes there are MAGA members) Generally we avoid open discussion of these topics these days as is causes division and strife - this doesn't mean it doesn't happen. as evidenced by recent discussions)

Hopefully that clears thing up..
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Papaphilly Jun 11, 2024 03:05PM Re Project 2025
I have and it is not from the GOP but the Heritage Foundation.
True the Heritage foundation is the publication source, but the GOP and Trump are utilizing it as roadmap "Presidential Transition Project" for their potential return to the Presidency. Thus in effect and practice it has become a wholesale GOP plan/tool/device. It appears that the entire party is on board with this and is moving forward along with their seven mountains perspective.

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message 1392: by Ian Jun 13, 2024 08:21PM
"He does put our country first, unlike Biden." Are you sure? Trump may merely want power and admiration.

I have to go with Ian on this. Trump's rally last weekend was just another brick in the wall on his disregard for the American Citizen and his disregard for our country. his statement "Trump: We need every voter. I don't care about you. I just want your vote. I don't care." given in Las Vegas.

(I cant get the links to load, probably cause of the security on this machine. so you'll have to google it yourselves. But it has been reported in the reputable news.. so it isn't hard to find. )

Anyway.. the adage of when people tell you who they are and what they are going to do.. listen to them. is true.

[J.]

My list of "when they tell you who they are" moments has to include a decrepit old man lighting Independence Hall in blood red uplights and calling half the county enemies of Democracy. But I may be weird.

[Papaphilly]

Kiri wrote: "True the Heritage foundation is the publication source, but the GOP and Trump are utilizing it as roadmap "Presidential Transition Project" for their potential return to the Presidency. Thus in effect and practice it has become a wholesale GOP plan/tool/device. It appears that the entire party is on board with this and is moving forward along with their seven mountains perspective. ..."


It is not any part of the platform. Any noise made by this is nothing more than throwing red meat to he lions. The Heritage Foundation is very good at attaching their agenda to the GOP without the GOP actually doing anything with it. He is doing the same type of thing that Biden does when he talks about transgender and illegal immigrants.

[Graeme]

How on Earth is Biden going to be able to debate Trump in 10 days time?

[J.]

Graeme wrote: "How on Earth is Biden going to be able to debate Trump in 10 days time?"

Either Adrenochrome and Ibogaine OR that stuff Hunter gets from those nice Colombians.

[Papaphilly]

Kiri wrote: "
I have to go with Ian on this. Trump's rally last weekend was just another brick in the wall on his disregard for the American Citizen and his disregard for our country. his statement "Trump: We need every voter. I don't care about you. I just want your vote. I don't care." given in Las Vegas.

(I cant get the links to load, probably cause of the security on this machine. so you'll have to google it yourselves. But it has been reported in the reputable news.. so it isn't hard to find. )..."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check...

Why context is so important.

[Graeme]

Papaphilly wrote: "Kiri wrote: "
I have to go with Ian on this. Trump's rally last weekend was just another brick in the wall on his disregard for the American Citizen and his disregard for our country. his statement..."

Interesting how the quote was spun out of context by the partisan media.

"And by the way, isn't that breeze nice? Do you feel the breeze? Cause I don't want anybody going on me, we need every voter. I don't care about you, I just want your vote. I don't care. See now the press will take that, they'll say he said a horrible thing."

Trump predicted to the crowd precisely what happened.

It's so hard to get the facts.

[J.]

The most disheartening thing about our time is how often I've combed page after page of Google search results, looking for an article I had read only days before, and then found it at the top of page 1 on Duck Duck Go. Wanna guess which side that bias usually seems to favor?

[Graeme]

2nd example of the 'cut without context,' narrative construction.

BIDEN HQ CLAIM:

"Trump says he will throw “women with beautiful children” in mass detention camps and then fantasizes about a 1950s military-style operation called “Operation Wetback”"

https://x.com/BidenHQ/status/18021134...

Vs

TRUMP WAR ROOM:

https://x.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/180...


It's a shame we don't get better from politicians.

[Graeme]

Of course, the classic example remains... Charlottesville.

https://x.com/shaunmmaguire/status/18...

[J.]

I couldn't help but notice the photo from the G7 conference of Biden, Macron, and Sunak side by side. Three self inflicted wounds posing as titans of geopolitics.

[Papaphilly]

Part of the Trump problem is he says these things in jest, but does it in such a way that you may not realize he is kidding.

[Kiri]

Graeme wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Kiri wrote: "
I have to go with Ian on this. Trump's rally last weekend was just another brick in the wall on his disregard for the American Citizen and his disregard for our cou..."

I didn't get it from the news.. I watched the speech. I know what I heard and saw.

And to answer something else further down.. Statements such as these (many indicating violence and etc) should not be stated by someone pursuing public office. If it is then it shouldbe made CLEAR it is simply in jest.. and never repeated.

None of these are true in this individuals case.. and there is historical and modern precedent for this kind of behavior/speech.

also his word salad just obfuscates things for many people.

So stop making excuses for him.

[Papaphilly]

Kiri wrote: "Graeme wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Kiri wrote: "
I have to go with Ian on this. Trump's rally last weekend was just another brick in the wall on his disregard for the American Citizen and his disreg..."


How about this threat of violence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYAe6...

Or this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Wnt...

This?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H7VO...

Trump made a joke. No matter how you cut it, it was a joke and there were laughs. If you cannot understand a joke, that is fine, but it does not make it any less a joke.

[Graeme]

Apparently the videos of Biden losing his way are deep fakes ... according to the WH Spox.

https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/180...

[Graeme]

Regarding the debates...

The first occurs before Trump's sentencing on the 27th of June,

So, I figure Biden will not get a 'get out of jail free card,' for the first debate.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...

I'll try and watch this,

[Lizzie]

J. wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "If you sip long enough, you get hammered...."

True. But I don't earn enough to get hammered on top shelf liquor. When I buy quality, I want to get every last bit out out of it. ..."

Woodford Reserve is a good choice. If you want to go a little higher on cost and quality, I am a fan of Bookers.

[Papaphilly]

Lizzie wrote: "J. wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "If you sip long enough, you get hammered...."

True. But I don't earn enough to get hammered on top shelf liquor. When I buy quality, I want to get every last bit out ..."

Bookers is a great choice.

[Scout]

What do you think will be Biden's best strategy for winning the debate? What will Trump's best strategy be?

[Papaphilly]

Scout wrote: "What do you think will be Biden's best strategy for winning the debate? What will Trump's best strategy be?"

Joe is going to have to be extremely scripted and not go off topic. I also think he hammers home the convicted felon part. Trump has to be not Trump. If he can contain himself, he can run away with it, but that is a big ask.

[J.]

Odds are the debates will be partisan s*** shows. Short of Trump showing up in Klan robes or Biden dropping dead on live TV, the debates aren't likely to change people's minds very much.

What'll matter is how people feel about their lives when they vote.

[Nik]

I think the debates will help people shape their opinion about Biden’s mental ability. Not that I think many will switch their support to Trump if Bidie fails to look convincing, but it might stir some internal debate within the Dem camp.
All in all, with all the conspiracies in the air, I think you’ll just have regular elections with regular mudslinging (it’s regular that it increases each new cycle), where people’s vote will decide between 2️⃣ problematic candidates 😎🗳️⚡️

[J.]

Don't worry, Nik. Biden is at Camp David, preparing for the debate. I'm sure that the MSM has leaked all of the questions to his staff. (They leaked debate questions to Hillary in 2016.)