World, Writing, Wealth discussion
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Want to talk about the 2024 election? Possible candidates? Platforms? Predictions?
Jill Stein is now in the race....REF: https://twitter.com/DrJillStein/statu...
Cue howls of rage from the DNC...
It's good to hear a candidate talking about "protecting our constitutional rights".Oh, wait...
https://ballotpedia.org/Jill_Stein_pr...
So she wants to protect some constitutional rights while apparently using our tax dollars to pay off the student debts of people who are supposed to be college educated. As for saving Mother Earth... Ian, does that actually mean anything?
J, I can see why it must be annoying for Americans to be the World's policeman and then come in for so much stick, particularly when it's from supposed allies. I guess it's the price you pay for being a super power. We probably had the same problem 100+ years ago. Be grateful you're still relevant as a country :)
I hadn't even considered the US Presidential Election not taking place next year, Graeme. But, on reflection, I think Nik's hit the nail on the head. Would anything really surprise us anymore?
As they used to say on Thunderbirds, 'Anything can happen in the next half hour'.
What do you think might delay it?
As they used to say on Thunderbirds, 'Anything can happen in the next half hour'.
What do you think might delay it?
I take a few days down and miss all of this good stuff.America is the world's richest country and it is not close. yes we have plenty of poor and some of them are very up front and seen. I wish it was not so, but...
That being said, it is by far better being poor in America than anywhere else in the world. Our poor have a much higher standard that all of the others. Not saying it with pride, but it is a fact. It is also not a political thing. It is just people. We have them in both cities and in the country. All colors, religion, politics and ages. The cities are much more noticeable due to proximity to tourists.
Papaphilly wrote: "I take a few days down and miss all of this good stuff.American is the world's richest country and it is not close. yes we have plenty of poor and some of them are very up front and seen. I wish ..."
If I was allowed to borrow 5 million dollars, bought a flash house, and a couple of flash cars, and started throwing sumptous parties - I'd look rich too...
The US is in terminal debt decline. and neither party is coming anywhere near addressing that problem.
Papaphilly wrote: "Nothing"Normalcy bias: The expectation that tomorrow will be like yesterday.
The US Debt Clock doesn't include unfunded liabilities such as social security, medicare, etc....That debt curve is going up, up and away.
REF: https://www.usdebtclock.org/
Graeme wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "Nothing"Normalcy bias: The expectation that tomorrow will be like yesterday."
More like you have to understand the American mind-frame. We had elections during the Civil war, WWI and WWII not to mention right after 911.
Graeme wrote: "The US Debt Clock doesn't include unfunded liabilities such as social security, medicare, etc....That debt curve is going up, up and away.
REF: https://www.usdebtclock.org/"
Want to bet a $1 we will be here in 100 years.
Papaphilly wrote: "More like you have to understand the American mind-frame. We had elections during the Civil war, WWI and WWII not to mention right after 911. ..."Indeed.
However, no one expected the Soviet Union to vanish in a week...
It was there ... and then it wasn't.
Papaphilly wrote: "Want to bet a $1 we will be here in 100 years...."It would have to be an ounce of silver, at the rate $1 is inflating, $1 won't be identifiably different from $0 in a hundred years.
Graeme wrote: "Papaphilly wrote: "More like you have to understand the American mind-frame. We had elections during the Civil war, WWI and WWII not to mention right after 911. ..."Indeed.
However, no one expec..."
Uh not quite.
Well sure. There would be some people predicting it....But that is also true with regard to the US. The thing is, most people are not expecting anything untoward. That's were the surprising unexpected event shows up from left field.
The best thing that can happen to the US next year is for the people to elect the unifying candidate, RFK Jr, as President. Should this happen, I think we'll see a happier US, more at ease with itself internally, as well as a thawing of the growing hostilities between the US and BRICS nations. Maybe even a new golden age.
Should Biden, or a clone of Biden, be elected, we're looking at terminal decline - a slow and painful death of a once great nation.
Should Trump be elected, then chaos. The schism between the Deep State Swamp and the President would be such that the country will descend into civil war and break up into multiple entitles.
As someone who cares about the US, this is one of the reasons I'm supporting the unfying candidate, Kennedy. I urge all US group members to do the same.
Should Biden, or a clone of Biden, be elected, we're looking at terminal decline - a slow and painful death of a once great nation.
Should Trump be elected, then chaos. The schism between the Deep State Swamp and the President would be such that the country will descend into civil war and break up into multiple entitles.
As someone who cares about the US, this is one of the reasons I'm supporting the unfying candidate, Kennedy. I urge all US group members to do the same.
Papaphilly wrote: "I take a few days down and miss all of this good stuff.America is the world's richest country and it is not close. yes we have plenty of poor and some of them are very up front and seen. I wish it was not so, but...
That being said, it is by far better being poor in America than anywhere else in the world. Our poor have a much higher standard that all of the others. Not saying it with pride, but it is a fact. It is also not a political thing. It is just people. We have them in both cities and in the country. All colors, religion, politics and ages. The cities are much more noticeable due to proximity to tourists."
Is it really better being poor in America though?
When poverty lives cheek by jowl with mega-wealth, it must feel like you've been chewed up and spat out by the American Dream.
When poverty is surrounded by other poverty... it's a community.
I suspect the massive, in-your-face wealth of the minority is the main impetus for all dissatisfaction in the US.
Abject poverty for most of the world involves burying half of your children and sending the survivors to pick through toxic dumps in search of recyclables which can be sold for a few pennies. The USA isn't that bad.
Some extremely alarming stats about poverty in Australia:
https://www.missionaustralia.com.au/w....
While Adrian has been busy carrying out missionary work in the US, life in the 'lucky country' has been going down under.
https://www.missionaustralia.com.au/w....
While Adrian has been busy carrying out missionary work in the US, life in the 'lucky country' has been going down under.
J. wrote: "Abject poverty for most of the world involves burying half of your children and sending the survivors to pick through toxic dumps in search of recyclables which can be sold for a few pennies. The U..."Hence why half the world is crossing your southern border...
Beau wrote: "Some extremely alarming stats about poverty in Australia:https://www.missionaustralia.com.au/w...%..."
Not long ago our Federal government was debt free. Since then governments have been spending money like drunken sailors and debt has skyrocketed.
Looting the treasury is a constant temptation...
Beau wrote: "Some extremely alarming stats about poverty in Australia:https://www.missionaustralia.com.au/w...%..."
Nice try.
Poverty in Australia is a very far cry from poverty in most other places. Poverty is clearly relative within every community.
You can be on the dole in Australia and still be in the top 2% of wealth by global standards.
Having said that, there is a cost of living issue in Oz right now due to mortgage rate increases but you're talking about people living in houses. There's your relativity right there.
Nik, I haven't heard the term "digital nomads," but it sounds great to be able to work from any place you choose.
Adrain, the reason you see the flag flying in the yards of the working poor is that it represents the days of Trump's America First policies when inflation was low, gas prices were low, and they had more money in their pockets; when the border was closed to illegals who get special treatment; when we were respected as a strong country; when people actually worked for a living instead of being given government handouts paid for with workers' taxes. So many people here can't make ends meet or are living paycheck to paycheck, or they're running up thousands in credit card debt. The working poor are actually working for a living and they resent what Biden has done to the country. They don't want handouts; they resent those who live on handouts and those who make more money than they do, yet want their college educations paid for.
I hadn't even considered that we might not have an election, but I guess if Biden dies before it's held, and he's the nominee, who knows what will happen?As for the idea that we'll have civil war if Trump wins - well, my friend who voted for Biden last time did so because that threat was made on social media and she believed Democrats would become violent if Trump won. So she was pressured into voting for Biden, and she regrets it. This time, she's voting Republican, regardless of those threats. If Trump wins, I can't see a civil war erupting. How the hell would it be fought, when you live next door to the supposed enemy? Ridiculous.
Scout wrote: "Adrain, the reason you see the flag flying in the yards of the working poor is that it represents the days of Trump's America First policies when inflation was low, gas prices were low, and they ha..."In the same neighbourhoods in northern CAL I'd also see (every day) hundreds of illegals lined up waiting for jobs at wineries for $7 an hour, and they'd all get work for the day. Opportunity or exploitation? That tells you a bit more about the Dream also - from two sides.
Chris Christie goes to Israel and Tim Scott quits race
Graeme, do you have any idea how much of the debt was accumulated to pay for/ was a direct result of lockdowns?
Back on topic, he hasn't got a chance of winning but Chris Christie is growing on me. Still wouldn't vote for him but he doesn't seem as bad as some have made out.
Back on topic, he hasn't got a chance of winning but Chris Christie is growing on me. Still wouldn't vote for him but he doesn't seem as bad as some have made out.
About Christie:https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...
The most amazing thing about him is the strength of that beach chair.
If there are substantial power outages in the US this winter, will that impact voters?REF: (Summary on page 5): https://www.nerc.com/pa/RAPA/ra/Relia...
I live in NJ. Yeah, NJ is blue, but you would think a guy who got elected governor twice had a chance of carrying it. He is so unpopular here, nobody likes him.
Adrian wrote: "Is it really better being poor in America though?..."American poor is far different than the rest of the world. Your point is fine when compared to the well off, but Americans are not starving in the streets. Education is free for all. is it perfect, no, but then when one argues over whether air conditioning is a human right, then how bad are the poor really?
I'm very conscious of the fact that the vast majority of the world would regard me as wealthy...But Papa, you've not engaged with my question. You've answered a question you chose to propose for yourself.
In Australia, the wealthiest 20% hold 2/3 of all wealth, whilst the poorest 60% hold just 17% of it. Australia has the 14th highest level of inequality in the whole of the OECD:
https://treasury.gov.au/policy-topics...
Forget being the 'lucky' country, Australia should be renamed the 'greedy' country. Still, once China takes over it, this will change.
https://treasury.gov.au/policy-topics...
Forget being the 'lucky' country, Australia should be renamed the 'greedy' country. Still, once China takes over it, this will change.
A question for Adrian. And the group deserves an honest answer...
Do you or do you not fly an Australian flag on your property?
Do you or do you not fly an Australian flag on your property?
Beau wrote: "In Australia, the wealthiest 20% hold 2/3 of all wealth, whilst the poorest 60% hold just 17% of it. Australia has the 14th highest level of inequality in the whole of the OECD:https://treasury.g..."
Full list by comparison
https://worldpopulationreview.com/cou...
Interesting stuff, Philip. Europe, most notably Eastern Europe, leads the way.
State intervention in economic policy clearly pays.
State intervention in economic policy clearly pays.
Beau wrote: "Interesting stuff, Philip. Europe, most notably Eastern Europe, leads the way.State intervention in economic policy clearly pays."
What's missing is of course the values of GDP/Wealth per head i.e. the comparison of wealth in a country but any South African - top of inequality list is still probably poorer than the billionaires in USA and Europe. Musk remains richest man with Bezos right behind.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles...
I know we tend to focus on the US Presidential 2024 election in this thread but there could be or are going to be several othersUK - Possible although Jan 2025 last possible date
Austria
Rumania
Belgium
South Korea
and the EU in June but not all national countries
Even San Marino has an election
Jordan
Syria - not sure how
Pakistan
The world's largest democracy India is due in May.
Hooray for democracy
List
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
I wouldn't worry about those elections, Philip. If the Biden regime doesn't get the results it wants, it'll just organise a coup or threaten to destabilise the country in question's economy until it toes the line.
What I want to know is when the US is going to intervene in Australia to promote greater economic equality. It's morally repugnant that rich Aussies pay so little tax.
What I want to know is when the US is going to intervene in Australia to promote greater economic equality. It's morally repugnant that rich Aussies pay so little tax.
Beau wrote: "A question for Adrian. And the group deserves an honest answer...Do you or do you not fly an Australian flag on your property?"
Of course not. Very few of us do, and those that do have flags tend to be viewed as slightly odd.
That's not to say we're not proud of our country - we are - and all feel very fortunate to have been born here.
But we're understated in most things, including patriotism. And we've never been the types to say: My country right or wrong.
We dislike our country to be wrong (although we don't necessarily agree when it is).
Beau wrote: "It's morally repugnant that rich Aussies pay so little tax."It's the Oz middle class that does all the heavy lifting when it comes to tax revenue. I suspect that's similar elsewhere.
Our governments are too scared of the corporations and super wealthy to properly chase them for their share... and too incompetent to go after the black economy and welfare fraudsters at the other end of the economy, so just suck harder on the easy target - the law abiding middle class.
I'm the first to concede I'm fairly comfortable - my wife and I make X times the average household income, but we dont pay X times the average tax. We pay ten times X times the average household tax.
So I'm doing my bit. And when my wealthy friends complain they're paying too much I say: What you're actually paying for is a stable society in which to enjoy your residual wealth. We don't want to be living in gated communities with broken glass on top of the walls.
Adrian, you said, "in northern CAL I'd also see (every day) hundreds of illegals lined up waiting for jobs at wineries for $7 an hour." The key word there is illegals, as in they have no legal right to expect anything. That's the other side of the argument, the side of those who are here legally and paying taxes and believe our border should be secure.
Graeme, I didn't miss your question about power outages changing people's minds. I hope it does.Beau, I can't believe you want the US to intervene in Australia. Most countries want us to butt out :-)
Adrian, I liked what you said here: "Our governments are too scared of the corporations and super wealthy to properly chase them for their share... and too incompetent to go after the black economy and welfare fraudsters at the other end of the economy, so just suck harder on the easy target - the law abiding middle class." I consider myself middle class, and I'm sick of being sucked dry to support social democrats' policies. I find your stance on this suprising in light of what you said about illegal immigrants, whom they encourage to come here and who depend on social welfare.
Scout wrote: "Beau, I can't believe you want the US to intervene in Australia. Most countries want us to butt out :-)..."I think he's joking.
Scout wrote: "Adrian, I liked what you said here: "Our governments are too scared of the corporations and super wealthy to properly chase them for their share... and too incompetent to go after the black economy and welfare fraudsters at the other end of the economy, so just suck harder on the easy target - the law abiding middle class."I consider myself middle class, and I'm sick of being sucked dry to support social democrats' policies. I find your stance on this suprising in light of what you said about illegal immigrants, whom they encourage to come here and who depend on social welfare."
Re the illegals... my point was that everyone knows they're illegals but instead of reporting them or (more importantly) employing legals on proper salaries, the wineries (which charge squillions for their wine) are happy to exploit them for $7 an hour, knowing they can't complain to anyone.
As for my stance on tax, I didn't say I liked it but I'd rather live in a stable society, and pay through the nose for it, than live in a deeply divided country teetering on the brink of revolution or devolution into fascism.
I genuinely fear for our free western culture.
Is the fact that people are fleeing Chicago for Venezuala a voting issue going forward?"Michael Castejon, 39, an immigrant who came here with his family told the Chicago Tribune that because he was unable to afford rent and unable to get his work permit he was taking his family back to Venezuela.
"The American Dream doesn't exist anymore. There's nothing here for us," he said. "How many more months of living in the streets will it take? No, no more. It's better that I leave. At least I have my mother back home."
"We just want to be home. If we're going to be sleeping in the streets here, we'd rather be sleeping in the streets over there," Castejon added."
REF: https://thepostmillennial.com/quality...
Apparently, sleeping on the streets of Venezuela is a better option than sleeping on the streets of Chicago.
Are the local Illinois politicians sweating about this?
No.... but they might be sizing up Venezuala as a bolt hole.That's presuming Mr Castejon is real, or not being paid to say the American Dream is over.
World, Writing, Wealth
Books mentioned in this topic
The Anti-Federalist Papers and the Constitutional Convention Debates (other topics)The Federalist Papers (other topics)
The Anti-Federalist Papers and the Constitutional Convention Debates (other topics)
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Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail '72 (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
J.D. Vance (other topics)Tulsi Gabbard (other topics)
Smedley D. Butler (other topics)
Robert Iger (other topics)
Larry Elder (other topics)
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I'm sure that there will be a terribly dangerous strain of the Coof which the federal government will use to impose mail in ballot mandates upon the states. However, cancelling the election would be incredibly risky because of those millions of gun owners who some on this thread disparage.