Around the Year in 52 Books discussion
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[2023] Wild Discussion
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Love that idea! I keep seeing some books on the list going "that looks good" but haven't thought of multiple books to see how many I want to read although I suspect a bunch.
Instead of “memoir or novel” can you just say “book”? It’s shorter and includes all genres/types
I'd prefer Read a book from the point of view of a person with a disability (physical, sensory, learning, mental, medical)
to make it even more concise.
Pamela wrote: "If I'm online when the next suggestions are up (I'n thinking Saturday? Which I won't be) I'm going to do Tookie's books but if anyone wants to do name in 1923, have at it!"What time Saturday?
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What tim..."
I dunno, but they are normally the day after poll results.
The mods usually post the estimate time for the next poll’s suggestion thread in results thread.So, poll 6 results probably will include time for poll seven’s suggestion thread.
°~Amy~° wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do they want to be tre..."@Amy and @Tracy,
Can you take a look at messages 1647 and 1648 and tell us what you think. Joy came up with an even shorter intro, and I drafted some comments to follow the prompt.
I'd be happy to suggest the 1923 name, but will have problems accessing the internet over the weekend - anyone else?
Pamela wrote: "Shelley wrote: "Robin P wrote: "My mother Frances was born in 1918, but I had no idea it was trendy. She deliberately avoided the trendy names of my childhood , which were Linda, Carol, Barbara, Ka..."I am Swedish and I did a quick google and the I only found a list of names popular in the 1920s. For me the US list would work, so much English written literature are translated anyway.
Then speaking about another prompt and that is the read a translated book, which always is a downvote for me, it is sort of a freebee as anything outside of Swedish authors that I read is translated and looking at my reading statistics translated books make up around 60 % a normal year
I had a look at the UK baby names data from the ONS but they only seem to have it for ten year intervals pre 1994. So I'd have to use the US list too. Fortunately Elizabeth has continued to be a pretty popular name among writers.
How about this phrasing for the Woman behind the man concept... a book about a woman who was overlooked by history or literature
°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do they want to be treated as such. I would be more c..."I feel the same way, I don’t think we should be linking neurodivergence and disability, and I’m not sure why they’ve been lumped together. Some neurodivergent people are disabled, but most just experience the world in a slightly different way.
NancyJ wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do the..."I do like the shortened "A book...." version. Simple, concise and more in line with the format of all the other prompts that we generally have on the list.
Nadine in NY wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do they want to be treated as such. I..."Exactly. I think it's just become kind of common place in things like challenges to put them together but knowing what we do now, we need to change that trend.
NancyJ wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do they want to be treated as such. I..."It’s too late for this year, but something like this would make a great multi-week prompt.
°~Amy~° wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do they want to be tre..."@°~Amy~°: How do you feel about this slight variation that I think @NancyJ put out there?: A book that presents the point of view of a person with a physical, sensory, learning, mental, or medical disability.
I think by taking the list of possible disabilities to consider out of parentheses it is less likely to be removed at the voting stage. I also support just using "book" instead of specifying "memoir" or "novel" to make sure other formats are not excluded, e.g., essays.
@NancyJ - thanks for help through this process!
And now, who is going to actually do the suggesting? It would be a shame to work through this and end up with us all thinking the other person was taking care of it. I'm happy to do it, but I'm also happy if either of you, @°~Amy~° or @NancyJ, feel like you'd like to.
°~Amy~° wrote: "Tracy wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do they want to be trea..."@°~Amy~°: I sincerely apologize if I unintentionally made you, or anyone else affected by my grouping of disability and neurodivergency (is that a word?), uncomfortable or hurt. I was not intending to say that they are the same thing at all, just that people affected by these two groups of conditions have this extra layer of challenge in their lives that most people do not. And since you shared that you are affected in some way by a condition in each of the two groups, it would be contradictory of me to not consider your perspective re: why not to connect the two groups together, since the whole point of the prompt was to learn from that perspective.
Thank you for your help through this 🙏🏼
Edit: fixing incorrect in-process edit in original post
Amy & Nadine - Another thing that I will say, being both neurodivergent and disabled myself, is that being disabled is also normal. I know you definitely didn't mean it in a negative way! But I'm just not personally sure that this is a particularly negative trend that needs to be challenged. To my mind they are extremely similar things, and there's nothing really wrong with that. The issue to my mind is more that society needs to do a bit more work on treating everybody with an equal level of respect no matter what ways they diverge from the idealized picture of the "norm" (whatever that is)I'm not sure that any of that was overly clear! But I just wanted to put that out there, again being neurodivergent and disabled myself.
Tracy - I definitely wasn't made uncomfortable or hurt by it! I think these things do need to be discussed, and as long as we're all being respectful (which everybody definitely has been) I think such discussions can only be a positive thing. I really like the prompt, and I think it'll be a super interesting one.
Thank you Siobhan! Another terminology question: I don’t use “normal” to describe someone who does NOT have a disability of some sort. I use “average”. Is that still considered appropriate?
Personally I'm not offended by it. I think it's one of those things that does depend a bit on situation and context, which I'm aware is a slightly unhelpful answer!
Tracy wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Tracy wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do they..."I wasn't hurt at all. We are all learning and growing every day. :)
°~Amy~° wrote: "Tracy wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Tracy wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabl..."Thank you for being so gracious Amy.
Siobhan wrote: "Amy & Nadine - Another thing that I will say, being both neurodivergent and disabled myself, is that being disabled is also normal. I know you definitely didn't mean it in a negative way! But I'm j..."I understand your perspective, I just don't agree that they are "extremely similar" and need to continue being clumped together. As someone else here mentioned, being neurodivergent can be a disability but it isn't always. I obviously don't speak for everyone in any group though so I understand and respect anyone who disagrees.
We certainly do agree that humans in general need to learn how to be more respectful and kind to each other :)
A prompt I've been thinking about based on various other options that have been thrown around (Harlem Renaissance, book about the arts) is "a book related to Broadway theatre". There are lots of broad options (e.g. books about musicians and dancers, books set in NYC), but you could also choose a particular play or musical and read a book related to that in some way.
What about just “related to theater?” I don’t know if I like the Broadway addition. It makes it too far. A book set in NYC counting even if not associated with theater feels like it takes away from the prompt.
Theatre is just easier to get my head around than Broadway. I'm not familiar with American theatre at all.
How about a published author that writes, written, or published fan fiction.https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/...
Read Harder did fan fiction as one of their prompts this year, and it did nothing to improve my opinion of that genre, I think it might be a hard sell
Juliet Brown wrote: "Read Harder did fan fiction as one of their prompts this year, and it did nothing to improve my opinion of that genre, I think it might be a hard sell"I agree it would be a hard sell. Fan fic has a pretty sordid reputation. For me it would definitely be a downvote.
I wasn’t talking about actual fan fiction. I was talking actual authors like Andy weir, Cassandra Clare, Marisa Meyer, etc. that are authors that have been known to write fan fiction.
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Most of us have no idea who writes fan fiction, and I don’t think there are enough of them. Some voters reject anything that requires research about the author.
I agree that Broadway musical/show is too American-centric (although I love musicals)
Mandy wrote: "I wasn’t talking about actual fan fiction. I was talking actual authors like Andy weir, Cassandra Clare, Marisa Meyer, etc. that are authors that have been known to write fan fiction."This would be a downvote for me.
Robin P wrote: I agree that Broadway musical/show is too American-centric (although I love musicals)"I'd be open to a broader version like just "related to theatre" or "features a play or musical", though I originally worried they were too broad. It's hard to find the sweet spot that everyone can agree on.
I don't think theater is too broad. Do you mean books that were made into plays, or books that are scripts, or books about famous shows or celebrities?
I would count any theatre adjacent books, Eg. If We Were Villains, Station Eleven, Take Me Home Tonight, Theatre of Marvels, Maskerade and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow (it's about game dev but theatre comes up frequently enough that I'd use it). Of course you could read a play if you wanted.
I've just started listening to Charles Dickens and the Great Theatre of the World - perhaps I'll wait & see if "theatre" gets in as a prompt :)
I don’t think theatre is too broad and I would vote for it. Broadway is too narrow for me though.
Pam wrote: "I don’t think theatre is too broad and I would vote for it. Broadway is too narrow for me though."I agree. I like the theater idea, too.
Joining the religion discussion - this year I have read several books that are about one or more religions. They study religions more, rather than being religious in nature. I was thinking of a prompt along the lines, “A book in which religion plays a major role (including atheism)”
I have always found various religions fascinating, even though I am not religious (I consider myself agnostic). I believe all beliefs deserve respect AND there is no such thing as the one and only true religion.
This prompt would allow one to read books or scriptures of their own faith, or read a book about other faiths, or about a person of a different religion. There are also many books where someone struggles with their faith, leaves a cult, or finds comfort in faith, or have their life changed by believing.
I was also thinking of a prompt related to art or music. I seem to have run across several of those books lately. It can also be interpreted quite widely and both fiction and non-fiction.
Marta, I think there are people here who would support both of those ideas. A suggestion early this summer combined art music, theater and dance. Some suggested the terms visual and performing arts, and others focused on theatre.Are any of these ideas of interest?
A book related to music (This could involve a musician or songwriter character, a bio or memoir, song lyrics in the book, or a popular song lyric in the title.
A book involving art, music, or theatre The characters could be musicians, artists, or in a play together. The book could follow a piece of artwork or sheet music through time. Or the book might include the full script of a play. Or it could be a bio or memoir by someone with an artistic career.
A book involving visual or performing arts
A character who is a visual or performing artist
OR
The Big Show (different meanings?)
"The Show Must Go On"
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Read a book that involves an element of religion or atheism.
I would also like a book that had an element of religion, or religious characters. Historical fiction is full of religious characters as a part of society, political conflicts, or wars. I read interesting contemporary books this year involving a nun in a halfway house, a priest/monk going into space,, and an Irish Catholic Priest grappling with the sex scandals in the church.
It would be nice to have the wording flexible enough to include books like those, as well as books involving faith, prayer, or inter-faith cooperation.
"Element" could be a main character, a religious setting, or religion is involved in the plot in some way.
A book involving visual or performing art and artistsI like this version. We could include some examples to go alongside the prompt when voting to remind people that music is also a valid option.
What about a book related to faith? You could interpret that as religion, a character or author called Faith or a faithful friend (dogs!).
Ellie wrote: "What about a book related to faith? You could interpret that as religion, a character or author called Faith or a faithful friend (dogs!)."I like this idea!
NancyJ wrote: "Marta, I think there are people here who would support both of those ideas. A suggestion early this summer combined art music, theater and dance. Some suggested the terms visual and performing arts..."Those are great ideas, Nancy, and all of those would encompass what I was thinking about.
Ellie wrote: "What about a book related to faith? You could interpret that as religion, a character or author called Faith or a faithful friend (dogs!)."
While this sounds good, it gives a somewhat different meaning than what I was thinking of. Some religions, like buddhism or confucianism, are not based on faith but rather a certain set of practices, and I am not sure that religious conflict counts as issues of faith, for example (I read quite a bit of medieval history). But maybe I am just being a bit picky and “faith” could be interpreted as close enough.
Even Buddhism uses faith in that it believes in an afterlife
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Around the Year in 52 Books
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Personally, I like the shortest version:
Read a memoir or novel from the point of view of a person with a disability (physical, sensory, learning, mental, medical)
The mods will want to take off all the stuff in parenthesis for the final list, but it's good to have it there for the suggestions phase.