Around the Year in 52 Books discussion
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[2023] Wild Discussion
Ellie wrote: "Tracy wrote: "How about an atheist author? After scanning this list quickly I found a few I'd easily be interested in reading, with a book by one of them on my end table!https://en.wikipedia.org/w..."
I can appreciate that Ellie, that's why I included the extensive Wikipedia list.
Ellie wrote: "Tracy wrote: "How about an atheist author? After scanning this list quickly I found a few I'd easily be interested in reading, with a book by one of them on my end table!https://en.wikipedia.org/w..."
Your link isn't working, Tracy. This is the list, I think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
There are many authors who are atheist, but this doesn't have any impact on their work, just as there are authors of faith who don't reflect that in their books. So would this be a prompt to read books about atheism?
Otherwise, I honestly don't see much point in reading a book just because the author is an atheist, just as I wouldn't read a book just because the author held a particular faith. It would have to have some relevance to the book.
LeahS wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Tracy wrote: "How about an atheist author? After scanning this list quickly I found a few I'd easily be interested in reading, with a book by one of them on my end table!https://en.w..."
Thanks for fixing my link LeahS! Someone else's link got messed up in the Reply process in the past couple of days also.
As to the reason why? I don't know why Muslim or Jewish authors were included recently, I was really just going along with pattern. I suppose to read broadly from authors with different points of view. Even though they may not overtly consider their religion/non-religion in their writing, I'd think it would color their writing at least subliminally.
Also saying this as a non-believr, If I have to pick a book off a Wikipedia article it's a list prompt and I don't really like list prompts. I know plenty of authors that are probably atheist, but so they want to be put on a list? That's up to them.
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As far as atheist, I see the link to previous years, but I don’t think it’s equivalent.
I call myself a humanist, where the supernatural just isn’t important, but I know that many members don’t like to have to research author’ backgrounds. While many Muslim or Jewish authors, and some Christian ones, write books that include elements of their background, I don’t know of many books that reflect atheist “culture”, if there even can be such a thing. Some sci-fi writers, including Ray Bradbury and Isaac Asimov, were humanists, but they wrote on diverse topics.
There are maybe 5 authors from the Wikipedia atheist authors list on my TBR List (and they're not necessarily authors I'm overly anxious to read). I cannot even imagine having to research to find more authors. So I'd have to say no to that prompt idea.
To pick someone off that wiki list, Terry Pratchett wrote about religion a lot, so it's not like his books are particularly atheist in nature. Maybe making up gods is a sign of atheism, because we've got no one to offend. If others really want an atheist prompt I'd just reread some Discworld.
Mod
I have read a ton of books by authors named Lisa.
I would vote for "person behind the person" and leave it up to the individual to decide which pair of people to select. I would not be likely to vote for "woman behind the man."I am trying to read books I already own. I have nothing for ferris wheel, carousel or rollercoaster. I think the types of books I read are very unlikely to feature one.
I do not care for prompts where I have to look up personal information about the author (religion, race, age, gender, etc).
I would vote for science.
Pamela wrote: "I was going to make a joke and realized it actually could be a good prompt-- an author with the name x. Some really common name like John or David (women's names go through vogues more so tougher t..."Maybe someone with a top ten name of your country for 2021? Actually the 1923 US list (I'm American) works really well. It's almost too broad. For BIO it could only be John or Mary.
Males: John, Robert, William, James, Charles, George, Joseph, Edward, Frank, Richard
Females: Mary, Dorothy, Helen, Margaret, Betty, Ruth, Mildred, Virginia, Frances, Elizabeth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
An author with a name popular when you were at school? In my day it was Susan. Claire, Sarah, and Emma were the biggies when my daughter was at school. Or an author with a name taken from the 5 most popular names in the year you were born - The Times publishes a list in the UK, and I assume there's the US equivalent.I appreciate that's another list prompt!
As one of those people that don’t like personal prompts ´top names in 1923´ I would vote for, the same in ‘year you were born’ would be a hard no
Top Names Over the Last 100 Yearshttps://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/de...
That might be too broad. Maybe the top 10 or 20 from that list?
Shelley wrote: "Pamela wrote: "I was going to make a joke and realized it actually could be a good prompt-- an author with the name x. Some really common name like John or David (women's names go through vogues mo..."I was looking at the 1923 list the other night and was wondering if it would be a good prompt or would it be to busy. That said I like the idea and would vote for it.
Mod
Males: John, Robert, William, James, Charles, George, Joseph, Edward, Frank, Richard
Females: Mary, Dorothy, Helen, Margaret, Betty, Ruth, Mildred, Virginia, Frances, Elizabeth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of.."
I like the 1923 list! Sad to know my grandmother Frances who want born around then was not a special name!
Pamela wrote: "Shannon SA wrote: "Hi Pamela, I've been looking at purchasing The Sentence for some time now, but the very mixed reviews (from horrible to brilliant) are making me hesitant. What did you think of t..."I thought The Sentence was one of her best books (my other favorite of hers are The Plague of Doves and Love Medicine). I was amazed that she was able to write such a cogent and subtly meaningful book about such immediately current events. It seemed effortless, but I’m sure it was not.
Pamela wrote: "Shelley wrote: Maybe someone with a top ten name of your country for 2021? Actually the 1923 US list (I'm American) works really well. It's almost too broad. For BIO it could only be John or Mary...."
I would be ok with the 1923 list plus Frances because she was special too :)
Shannon wrote: "I'm trying to think of prompts that would diversify my reading. My favorite prompts are always the ones who make me read a book I may never have picked up before. I'm just throwing out random ideas..."I have done a few “author’s age” categories over the years and I hope to never have one again . It’s too difficult researching authors’ ages.
Yeah, I'm not really a fan of anything requiring you to research the author's age. If you're reading a big name author it's fairly easy to find out, if you're reading somebody even a tiny bit more obscure then it's borderline impossible to dig up.I like the idea of names popular in 1923! That seems fun to me.
I'd also quite like the atheist prompt, I will be honest. I think it'd lead to a lot of fun options over fiction and non-fiction. And, as others have said, a great excuse to reread Terry Pratchett!
Tracy wrote: "How about an atheist author? ..."Yes I would vote for that.
Mod
My only concern about the names is if we have members in other countries. Though of course many books are available everywhere. Another option would be “a book by an author named any version of Mary or John”, using the site https://www.behindthename.com. For instance, John includes Ian, Evan, Ivan, etc. But maybe that’s too easy.
Robin P wrote: "My mother Frances was born in 1918, but I had no idea it was trendy. She deliberately avoided the trendy names of my childhood , which were Linda, Carol, Barbara, Kathy,etc. As a kid I wished I had..."That's why I specifically said "of your country". I'm looking it up now and I'm having trouble finding a similar list for India (I'm listening to The Widows of Malabar Hill right now). "Top ten of any country" would probably be a better change.
Couldn’t it be top names in your country in 1923? I don’t think it just has to be the US link
Mod
She's on the list- who knew Franny was the Jenny of her day!
I think it's a great list of names! Women's names change so much it's fun to see such a list.
Mod
We could not include a qualifier and say name popular in 1923, or is that too vague for people? That way you can use a top 10 name in your country or you can do something else?
I tried to find lists for other English speaking countries in 1923 and failed- does US google just not look at other countries? German names were quite different which makes sense since it is another language.
Sydney wrote: "I think last year there was some difficulty getting the disability prompt through, which was how we came up with the psychology/neuroscience/mind prompt. I would be all for trying it again this yea..."Tracy wrote: "Sydney wrote: "I think last year there was some difficulty getting the disability prompt through, which was how we came up with the psychology/neuroscience/mind prompt. I would be all for trying it..."
The POINT OF VIEW issue is really important to me too, and I would also want the prompt to allow for memoirs, and the word "character" often suggests fiction. What do you think of the beginning part of this sentence? Read a memoir or novel from the point of view of a person with...
Read a memoir or novel from the point of view of a person with a disability (physical, sensory, learning mental, medical) or neurodiversity.
I used "neurodiversity" in an attempt to give the sentence a parallel structure. I'm not if it worked.
Read a memoir or novel from the point of view of a person with a disability (physical, sensory, learning mental, medical) or a neuro-divergent person.
Which sounds better? The second uses "person first" for disablity, and "Identity first" for neuro-divergent people, which seems to be preferred by some people on the autism spectrum. (I think Helen Huang said that.) But people with ADHD prefer person first.
I would want to add a note about hidden disabilities in the description. I think more discrimination cases under the Americans with Disabilities Act were for hidden disabilities, rather than the types of physical disabilities that we could easily recognize.
Nancy wrote: "I think we should try disability or neurodivergent again, I would like to see that get in.Lindsey athlete was mine, I'm wondering if changing it to just a character who is an athlete, instead of ..."
Nancy, I'm glad you're planning to resubmit! I think just "a character" is pretty broad, but maybe that would help it get through? I'll vote for it again either way!
Samantha wrote: "Pamela wrote: "Shelley wrote: Maybe someone with a top ten name of your country for 2021? Actually the 1923 US list (I'm American) works really well. It's almost too broad. For BIO it could only be..."I like the 1923 idea!
Tracy wrote: "Thomas wrote: "Yes in 2021, then Jewish in 2022. Maybe we should give another faith a turn"I was going to suggest a Hindu author, but then I realized that might be a double dip if we vote in a bo..."
Most indigenous people have religious beliefs that are strongly grounded in Nature. I would prefer that. Of course, I'm biased because the pile of indigenous books I want to read is getting really big.
I read a three interesting books with religious characters from Catholic and Benedictine orders, one was about the sex abuse scandals.
Darwin really appeals to me, but atheism itself has little meaning to me. (Muslims and Jewish people are still discriminated against, and the Catholic church might never recover from the scandals.)
Ellie wrote: "Tracy wrote: "How about an atheist author? After scanning this list quickly I found a few I'd easily be interested in reading, with a book by one of them on my end table!https://en.wikipedia.org/w..."
I agree Ellie.
Ellie wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Did you have a link to the full list of Tookie's books? I photocopied it from a library book, but I think I only typed up the short list of Perfect Short Novels. I don't know if anyo..."I saved a link to Tookie's lists at https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/028...
Hopefully it will work for you.. I would upvote that as a list.
NancyJ wrote: "Read a memoir or novel from the point of view of a person with a disability (physical, sensory, learning mental, medical) or a neuro-divergent person...."I'd like to keep it open to essays, novellas, short story collections, etc. I think the point of view wording helps keep it focused without prescribing what type of book it is.
NancyJ wrote: "Sydney wrote: "I think last year there was some difficulty getting the disability prompt through, which was how we came up with the psychology/neuroscience/mind prompt. I would be all for trying it..."I see your point about perspective! That totally makes sense. I also like the inclusion of memoir in your wording, since that's the genre I tend to go towards for the identity prompts, and I do think the word "character" might have limited the genre choice in my mind, and maybe for others, too.
I'm not sure which phrasing would be best. I personally don't have a preference towards either as far as person-first/identity-first. I usually use person-first, only because "ADHD person" sounds awkward to me.
Maybe someone else has some additional insight, but I think small grammar changes can always be made if the prompt goes through, so either one could work for voting.
Re: the type of book for the disability, etc. book, how about we go with with “A book from the point of view of a person with a disability or who is neurodivergent” (with the other details inserted from earlier re: types of disabilities to consider)
Pamela wrote: "Shelley wrote: "Robin P wrote: "My mother Frances was born in 1918, but I had no idea it was trendy. She deliberately avoided the trendy names of my childhood , which were Linda, Carol, Barbara, Ka..."Would the best way be "Author with a first name that was popular in 1923" with the description being links to various countries top 10 lists? That way there is the strict description of popular, but a more common sense description could still work (such as I would be confident saying Mohamad and its various spellings was popular somewhere without needing data to back it up).
Lizzy wrote: "Ellie wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Did you have a link to the full list of Tookie's books? I photocopied it from a library book, but I think I only typed up the short list of Perfect Short Novels. I don'..."That list looks complete to me. I love, I'm working on one of her lists already, and I would vote for it. But, I'm not sure others would. It's a list and it's not very long, so even though the choices are good, they're limited.
Is there a folder just for side challenges? I would love it if we set up a mini-challenge to read Tookie's books and Erdrich's books, and discuss them. I'm starting with the list of short perfect novels. So far I've read Mrs. Dalloway and Sula.
I wonder if there is a way to make it broader. Authors or books recommended by your favorite authors (or books). When an author I like mentions another book or another author, I often add them to my to-read list. Denis Johnson was praised by Louise Erdrich on Tookie's list, and he was also praised in a book I read recently by Ann Patchett. We had a prompt once about books mentioned in other books. It didn't resonate with me at the time as being different from Books about books (we finally got a similar prompt in this year).
Bookbub often send me recommendations based on what my favorite authors liked and I pay attention.
Lindsey wrote: "Nancy wrote: "I think we should try disability or neurodivergent again, I would like to see that get in.Lindsey athlete was mine, I'm wondering if changing it to just a character who is an athlet..."
I like "a main character" but "a character" isn't as strong or easy to search for. I'm surprised it didn't get in, since many of us were planning to use a Fredrick Backman book for it.
I would recommend Boys in the Boat to anyone, and it fits main character. "A character" would open it up to more books, e.g. a book about a girl who has an athletic brother or boyfriend. I'm bound to read something like that (or a book about a man who was once an amateur athlete) eventually without planning for it.
Shannon wrote: "Samantha wrote: "Pamela wrote: "Shelley wrote: Maybe someone with a top ten name of your country for 2021? Actually the 1923 US list (I'm American) works really well. It's almost too broad. For BIO..."Are you all talking about popular names as a character or author prompt?
Are you finding lists for just American names, or can you get them worldwide? In the US, you can also find many states or regions. New York and North Carolina parents pick many different names.
My kids were born before you could find this online, but I found a journal in my university library with all the lists going back years. It was fun to look at all the years.
Robin P wrote: "My mother Frances was born in 1918, but I had no idea it was trendy. She deliberately avoided the trendy names of my childhood , which were Linda, Carol, Barbara, Kathy,etc. As a kid I wished I had..."I like your name a lot. I really wanted a name that would allow variations, such as Katherine or Christina. Having a popular name can really date you. My name was popular 10 years before I was born in the US, and it's not at all popular now. It's getting more popular in England and Wales though.
Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do they want to be treated as such. I would be more comfortable having EITHER a disability OR a neurodiversity prompt. Having both as separate prompts would be ideal. Having them linked together doesn't feel quite right to me.
NancyJ wrote: "Lizzy wrote: "Ellie wrote: "NancyJ wrote: "Did you have a link to the full list of Tookie's books? I photocopied it from a library book, but I think I only typed up the short list of Perfect Short ..."Yes, there is a folder for side challenges! :)
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/group...
Tracy wrote: "Re: the type of book for the disability, etc. book, how about we go with with “A book from the point of view of a person with a disability or who is neurodivergent” (with the other details inserted..."I like this wording:
“A book from the point of view of a person with a disability"
Book = fiction or non-fiction (and does not require it to be a novel or memoir)
Person = avoids using the word "character" which some people (not me) interpret as only fiction
I am unsure about combining disability with neurodivergence. Is that intended just to make the prompt broader?
°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do they want to be treated as such. I would be more c..."Hi °~Amy~°, just want you to know that my intent is not to make anyone, someone who is disabled/has a disability or anyone who is neurodivergent, feel anything but "normal". It was only to expose us to the point of view of people who do not have the "Average Life Experience". My son was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and this certainly did not change my idea of him being normal. I assume you are feeling protective of this group of people, and I appreciate that.
I only grouped this extremely varied group of people because they do not have the average life experience. Even if we only used JUST disabled, or JUST neurodiverse, each of those groups is not homogeneous within their own group, and it is not my intent to say that either group, together or separate, is all the same.
°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do they want to be treated as such. I would be more c..."Great point. It also makes it easier to write!
I would prefer to focus on Disability first, including physical, sensory, mental, learning, medical)
Some mental health conditions might now be lumped in with neurodivergent because they involve the brain, but they are very different from the autism spectrum, so I'm happy to keep them on the disability side.
How is this?
Read a memoir or novel from the point of view of a person with a disability (physical, sensory, learning, mental, medical).
or, removing commas if Emily thinks it's clearer
Read a memoir or novel from the point of view of a person with a physical, sensory, learning, mental, or medical disability.
Or
Read a book that presents the point of view of a person with a physical, sensory, learning, mental, or medical disability.
Notes the might follow:
This could be a memoir, novel, collection, etc. This prompt aims to be inclusive, and allow for different definitions of disability (Medical, legal, temporary, perceived, etc.). We might not all agree on the types of differences that should be called disabilities, but we all have an idea of what might count, and we'll use our best judgment. The book you read doesn't need to focus on a disability, but the point of view is important.
I like "book" over "novel or memoir" - it expands the options and makes it shorter. There are non-fiction books written by people with disabilities or "neurodiversities" that are not memoirs. I've read quite a few of them.
What about "a book from the point of view of a person with a disability." You can put all those other adjectives in the explanation.
I like your notes: "This prompt aims to be inclusive, and allow for different definitions of disability (Medical, legal, temporary, perceived, etc.). We might not all agree on the types of differences that should be called disabilities, but we all have an idea of what might count, and we'll use our best judgment. The book you read doesn't need to focus on a disability, but the point of view is important."
Tracy wrote: "°~Amy~° wrote: "Just throwing it out there that there is a push now to normalize neurodiversity. Many neurodiverse people do not see themselves as disabled nor do they want to be treated as such. I..."I know that no one here has any negative intentions toward anyone else which is why we have these discussions, to avoid unintentionally creating a prompt that might cause someone discomfort or god forbid, pain. As a person with a physical disability and a recent ADHD diagnosis (among other things) I appreciate everyone's openness to consider another perspective.
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Around the Year in 52 Books
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https://en.wikipedia.org/w..."
Maybe it's because I'm a member of that big bunch of non-believers, but I like the idea :) It's a prompt I've never seen anywhere else, and there are some really good authors on that Wikipedia list.