Ersatz TLS discussion
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Weekly TLS
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What are we reading? 11th May 2022
Georg wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: torturers have individual responsibility, and should not be allowed to fall back on the "I was only obeying orders" excuse.That was the main point made by the prosecution in th..."
I'm pretty sure we were expressing similar opinions in slightly different ways, though unlike you I am not familiar with Kant's ideas. I drew a parallel between the notion of 'duty' (as normally understood) and the 'only obeying orders' excuse for torture. If duty implies or is equivalent to 'obeying orders' (as seems to be the way things are interpreted in armies of all nations), then either term could be used by lower ranks to attempt to justify anything at all - but you and I don't buy the argument.
If your point was a good deal deeper and more subtle, and I have misrepresented it, then please accept my apologies... as I say, I don't know enough (or much at all) about Kant's ideas.
AB76 wrote: "Current reading:Really enjoying a modern Soanish novel by Juan Marse entitled The Snares of Memory (2016)
Its a witty and eloquent novel about a murder..."
Thanks for this tip... I have never heard of Marsé, but the book sounds so interesting that I've bought the e-book version... the fact that he worked for a while at the Pasteur institute also encouraged me, though I doubt it's relevant to his works.
CCCubbon wrote: "...the pitch of the bees buzz becomes higher when the get annoyed - like a high pitched frantic whine - they don’t like after shave smell"CCC - somehow, I didn't imagine that you used aftershave... ;-)
I love honey, as does my mother - one secret of her longevity, maybe... her cousin used to keep bees, and we'd have a supply for the year from him (paid for, naturally!) The honey in west Wales is superb - the best ever - must be the wild flowers they collect from, whatever they are.
scarletnoir wrote(252): "Georg wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: torturers have individual responsibility, and should not be allowed to fall back on the "I was only obeying orders" excuse.That was the main point made by the pro..."
No need for apologies! Misunderstanding. Resolved. End of.
You should know by now that I am not a glasshouse plant :-)
scarletnoir wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Current reading:Really enjoying a modern Soanish novel by Juan Marse entitled The Snares of Memory (2016)
his "lizard tails" about 20 years ago was one of the first modern novels i read....after spending my teens and early 20s ignoring most literature, the year 2K was when i became an avid reader
Mod
Roger Michell's documentary about the queen will be shown in Parisian cinemas on the evening of 2nd June. Never think to escape royal events by coming here!
I have found another crime novel author:https://www.fantasticfiction.com/s/be...
I have just read the first book Death in the Woods
A DI just returned to his native Exeter from London having had a bad split in his relationship ending in him bashing her new guy. He is soon involved in a murder investigation when a young girl's body is found. His immediate boss is due to retire and is a bit of a maverick. and an unauthorised search goes horribly wrong.
I enjoyed the book very much, there is not too much of the Angsty detective with a wreck of a home life as irritates me in quite a few crime novels. It was nowhere near as gruesome as the two Stuart Macbride books I have just read and I was glad of this.
Tam wrote(245): "Georg wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: torturers have individual responsibility, and should not be allowed to fall back on the "I was only obeying orders" excuse.That was the main point made by the pro..."
For about a year now I have been preoccupied with "judgement".
It probably started with reading something where I thought: what gives YOU the right to judge? The next questions were: what gives anybody the right to judge? And, most importantly: what gives me the right to judge. Ever since the questions have proliferated. I have noticed how much "judgement" is part of our lives. A lot of our opinions are, in fact, judgements.
So I find myself in a warren of rabbit holes to explore. Somewhere along the way I have found a shred of Ariadne's thread. I now try to frame my thoughts in the form of a real trial. Motive, circumstances, evidence.... A lawyer for the defense, the prosecution, the judge. Does this framing help? Not an awful lot, tbh. But it has allowed me to let go of some judgements, made by others, I have for a long time respected and agreed with.
Have I become more tolerant, less judgemental? A bit, I think. It is still a work in progress. Unfortunately my "an eye for an eye" disposition is a massive hurdle.
In a way you are right with your "black-and white" objection.
But: not all people who have had an upbringing that didn't instill any moral code become amoral persons. Vice versa people who were brought up by parents who, by all accounts, were loving and respectable can become wife-beaters, murderers, torturers.
Nature or nurture or a combination of both?
Incidentally I have asked myself a similar question not long ago: are people responsible for not having compassion, or empathy? A resounding no from me.
Therefore they cannot really be made responsible for crimes they commit because they lack feeling. Should they be punished for something they are not responsible for? An equally resounding yes from my side. I well know I am on shaky ground here. Punishment for punishment's sake is not a popular concept nowadays in the circles I (used to/still do?) belong to. By all means: reform, rehabilitate, resocialise if possible. But I think there will always be people so damaged that they should be locked away for the rest of their lives. Yeah, I know...
That the "law" is skewed is quite clear for anybody who has an at least average number of brain cells.
As the rope-makers (long gone) used to say:
"Die kleinen Gauner hängt man auf,
die grossen lässt man laufen.
Wär andersrum der Welten Lauf
würd ich mehr Seil verkaufen."
(the small crooks are hanged, the big ones get away. If it were the other way round I would sell more rope.)
scarletnoir wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "...the pitch of the bees buzz becomes higher when the get annoyed - like a high pitched frantic whine - they don’t like after shave smell"CCC - somehow, I didn't imagine that you..."
Oddly I don’t like honey, it’s too sweet for me but I did enjoy having the bees. The chickens and hives were at the top of the garden which sloped down fairly steeply. We used to growour veggies up there and poor MrC was stung quite quickly the buzz becoming quite frantic if he had splashed on aftershave in the morning!
CCCubbon wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "...the pitch of the bees buzz becomes higher when the get annoyed..."
I would love to keep bees but I can’t because (a) the hives are sure to attract bears and (b) one sting would probably kill me. The last time I was stung, a couple of years ago, I collapsed, my BP sank to 48 over 15, and all I wanted to do was go to sleep, which would have been my last, said the ER doctor. So now I must carry an Epipen. It was never a problem when I was younger.
I would love to keep bees but I can’t because (a) the hives are sure to attract bears and (b) one sting would probably kill me. The last time I was stung, a couple of years ago, I collapsed, my BP sank to 48 over 15, and all I wanted to do was go to sleep, which would have been my last, said the ER doctor. So now I must carry an Epipen. It was never a problem when I was younger.
Russell wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "...the pitch of the bees buzz becomes higher when the get annoyed..."I would love to keep bees but I can’t because (a) the hives are sure to ..."
gosh, thats nasty with summer ahead. i havent been stung by bees or wasps since i was 3, which is good going, considering they are all over the place in Southern England from May to October, though i have noticed less of them in the last 5 years
one observation i made about the difference between bumble bees and other bees, is this. i had a tree bumble bee nest under the eaves of my house, right above my bedroom window that is open 90% of the time in summer. not one bumble bee ever stumbled inside my bedroom, remarkable, perfect satnav. with honey bees nesting they were always popping in and wasps too. (though i guess wasps and honey bees probably forage more)
Gpfr wrote: "I posted this in Films & Series, but some who don't go there might be amused ...Roger Michell's documentary about the queen will be shown in Parisian cinemas on the evening of 2nd June. Never thin..."
Many years ago, my mother dropped me off at work. She was going back home to watch the queen and Prince Charles at an event in Wales.
"You're going home to look at the Queen's silly hat?"
Mother put on her best affected British accent. "Slleh? My deah, one doesn't say silleh about the Queen's hat." She reverted to her normal southern accent. "It's downright Gawd-awful."
scarletnoir wrote: "Tam wrote: "MK wrote: "If (money) had a built-in annual decrease in face value, then it could no longer be speculated upon..."I thought we already had this - it's called 'inflation' and is curren..."
If the term "inflation" becomes unpopular, we can always call it "the debasement of currency."
AB76 wrote: "Veufveuve wrote: "Happy personal and familial birthdays to CCC and Scarlet. 100! In a neat piece of symmetry (or something) it was my wife's 50th on Friday and we've had a very enjoyable weekend of..."When I wanted to find a reference to Haiti's slave rebellion in Carlyle's French Revolution, I couldn't find "Haiti" or "San Domingue" or "rebellion" in the index.
I finally found the reference I was looking for. I looked under "sugar."
Robert wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Veufveuve wrote: "Happy personal and familial birthdays to CCC and Scarlet. 100! In a neat piece of symmetry (or something) it was my wife's 50th on Friday and we've had a very enjoyab..."capitalism in its essence eh.....i will add a screen shot of the french returns from their carribean islands in 1790 vs the british islands to the photo section, which captures Haiti still under French control.
The products column is not just sugar returns but shows how in 1790, Haiti was the French cash cow extraordinaire!
the text is in french but easily translatable
Mod
https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-tex...
I've had it with this country. Weeping.
Tam wrote: "Georg wrote: "Tam wrote: "Georg wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: torturers have individual responsibility, and should not be allowed to fall back on the "I was only obeying orders" excuse.That was the ..."
I read somewhere that torturers do have one thing in common; they all feel sorry for themselves. Might be true for all I know.
Mod
https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-tex...
I've had it with th..."
I don't know what to say, Ll - what will it take to make those in power change the gun laws ...
Years ago, Conor Cruse O'Brian predicted what would happen if a real civil war broke out in Ulster-- the Irish government would 1) Say "We can't stand idly by," 2) stand idly by, and 3) fall. When it comes to gun control, our politicians have done Dr. O'Brian's hypothetical Irishmen one better. We've seen episodes 1) and 2) repeated again and again, usually with the same words, but nobody falls at all.
Georg wrote: "Tam wrote(245): "Georg wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: torturers have individual responsibility, and should not be allowed to fall back on the "I was only obeying orders" excuse.That was the main poin..."
I can see where you are coming from I think, though my perspective is more layered than yours I think, as so much ill in the world, and this is one of the formative causes of crime to me, is due to vast inequalities of power and resources. I'm ambivelent on punishment, yes someone who had done something/wrong/damaging to others has to be made aware of what and why they have been considered to have done wrong, but something along the line of community service/education/truth and reconciliation processes/restorative justice would be the preferred outcome to me.
I don't know if there is such a thing as evil, still waiting to be convinced I guess but I do believe in possible redemption. After suitable use of some or all of the above possible treatments (which should include the means of keeping other people safe, so prisons of some sort are necessary for those who are a danger to others) I think that all people should be able to have the opportunity to 'have a fresh start'
When I was at art college we had a lot of artists come to give us talks on their lives. My favourite speaker was Jimmy Boyle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_B.... He was a very thoughtful and eloquent man, and a great example of what a person could be, if given some help to overcome their own background of deprivation and violence.
Though I must add that it probably helps quite a bit if you marry your psychotherapist, that you happened to meet in jail, which is what he did!... Oh and it was in the special wing of Barlinnie Prison (an enlightened wing of a jail, for especially dangerous prisoners) that he learnt to become an artist... so there are many ways for people to be rescued I think, from their/our own intransigent selves...
Lljones wrote: "https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-tex...I've had it with this country ..."
I'm so sorry Lisa, will it ever end? But regrettably the genie is out of the bottle with regard to the availability of guns in the US. I could never understand, among other things, is why it could ever be acceptable/necessary for private individuals to own semiautomatic or automatic weapons.
I wish I had answers, but I don't.
AB76 wrote: "Russell wrote: "...I would love to keep bees but I can’t..."
Yes, bumble bees are not really the problem here either, nor are honey bees. They are too busy gathering pollen. If you stand still they soon move away. It’s the ground-nesting bees that are a menace. They’re not so easy to detect and, if you step on the nest, suddenly they are all over you.
Yes, bumble bees are not really the problem here either, nor are honey bees. They are too busy gathering pollen. If you stand still they soon move away. It’s the ground-nesting bees that are a menace. They’re not so easy to detect and, if you step on the nest, suddenly they are all over you.
@giveus – Thanks for the recommendation of Cold Tuscan Stone by David P Wagner. I enjoyed it, and it evokes Volterra beautifully.
have just finished readingGeorges by Alexandre Dumas (1843), it was like a step back into the world of the well balanced, solid and majestic 19th century form of the novel, a perfectly formed 280 odd page work of literature/art.Dumas focuses on the base violence of racial prejudice, its corrosive affect but without schmaltzy simplicity or the kind of woke knee jerking that can sour the taste of the reader.
His hero Georges, is dual heritage,but a millionaire whose father owns 200 slaves, the racial prejudice here is one that stalked Haitien society, between the dual-heritage and the whites, but set in Mauritius about 30 years after the Haitien rebellion.
In Haiti the educated, slave owning dual-heritage population suffered hugely at the hands of the enslaved, with Dumas and Mauritius it is more about the approach of whites towards the affluent dual-heritage middle classes.
Georges tries to change society as much as he can, on return from education in France and Britain but finds it is an impossible task. Dumas drops in contradictions accross the piece, in that the brother of Georges, is a slaver and his father a plantation owner but there is empathy and sympathy for the enslaved,though i would ask whether this would be read with much sympathy in 2022 and is the complex heart of the novel.
It has everything you would want and was his only study of race in his collection of novels
Tam wrote: "Georg wrote: "Tam wrote(245): "Georg wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: torturers have individual responsibility, and should not be allowed to fall back on the "I was only obeying orders" excuse.That was..."
This exchange started with you (#245) contesting my view (#244) that "only doing one's duty" as a defense, has, rightly imo, not been accepted since the Nuremberg trials made the case for why it shouldn't be.
You say (#271):
I don't know if there is such a thing as evil, still waiting to be convinced I guess but I do believe in possible redemption. After suitable use of some or all of the above possible treatments (which should include the means of keeping other people safe, so prisons of some sort are necessary for those who are a danger to others) I think that all people should be able to have the opportunity to 'have a fresh start'
"all people"? Are you serious?
Well, I can see Eichmann living a peaceful life as a municipial gardener in Jerusalem, had he only been given the opportunity to have a fresh start. Sadly the Israelis were not progressive enough to give him that and hanged him instead.
Had your student son been tortured and killed and thrown onto a rubbish dump and you found out that his torturer has been given a new start after a shortish prison sentence: would you think "I am glad he has been given the opportunity of 'a fresh start', because he now has a family and kids and a regular job?
While I dislike the word "evil", because it is misused so often, I have seen enough and read enough to be convinced that it does exist. Otherwise I would not be able to make sense of all the atrocities commited since time immemorial by people who do not deserve to be called 'human' beings.
So: what about the victims? Who unfortunately don't get the opportunity to make a new start because the are dead?
It took me a while to understand why it was/still is important to try Nazi criminals who were in their 90s. Old and infirm, everybody knew they would never go to jail, why bother and spend taxpayers money on a symbolic gesture? Then I realised it had to be done for the victims and their families.
giveusaclue wrote: "Lljones wrote: "https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-tex...I've had it with this country ..."
I'm so sorry Lisa, will it ever end? But regrettably th..."
politically its a nightmare with the NRA lobbying so hard for everything to do with guns. if i could list every Hollywood movie that involves everyone blasting away with guns like they are a holy accessory i would have reams of paper.
the most disturbing aspect of Hollywood over my lifetime is an extreme embrace of violence and guns. i dont entirely blame these films for shootings, like i dont blame video games but when a cultural worships the gun, its a real problem. its not frontier america anymore, gun ownership should be limited and every individual checked and assessed every 2 years.
Two from me, back in a wet Cumbria.. The Last of Philip Banter by John Franklin Bardin.
Philip Banter, and ad man, sits down at his office desk early one morning still shaking off the effects from his late night binge drinking, his memory is hazy. Irritable and hungover he notices a manuscript labelled “Confession” on his desk. Intrigued, he flips through the pages, skimming its contents. At first, he can hardly believe what he’s read; some sort of joke perhaps? But on second reading, panic sets in.
The document details the events of an upcoming dinner party, and of a night of infidelity in which Philip will leave his wealthy wife for an attractive younger woman. He dismisses the event as a prank, but it the beginning of his mental disintegration.
First published in 1947, this has a Gallic noir quality to it. Banter is a thoroughly dislikeable character, and his misogynistic, drunken and just plain strange behaviour has his office colleagues and friends doubting his sanity.
Its a clever premise with the tension always high, the blind alleys and the misdirections are always well done. Its deadpan though, and in the hands of a lesser writer may fall flat, but Bardin has timing, which include some well-placed shocks.
With Banter working in advertising, though set in 1945, there was more than once I was put in mind of Don Draper, and Weiner's Mad Men. I wonder if this was an influence for him.
This is probably the least known of Bardin's three novels, all of which are well worth reading. He is perhaps best known for The Deadly Pecheron.
and, From the Shadows by Juan José Millás translated from the Spainsh by Daniel Hahn.
This is an original and quirky dark comedy that won several Spanish literature prizes on its publication in 2016.
Damián Lobo, in his early forties and recently laid off from his job with a good severance package, has is somewhat at sea. With little close contact to others, he has time on his hands, and is bored, taken to playing out dialogue in his mind, imagining himself being interviewed on a television show in front of a live studio audience.
A slight transgression leads to a comedy of errors that finds Lobo needing to disappear for a while. He does so by concealing himself in a large antique wardrobe he comes across, only to find that it is picked up and transported to the house of the person who has recently bought it.
Thereby, he finds himself living secretly and hidden, not uncomfortably, in the house a “normal family” of bourgeois suburbanites on the outskirts of Madrid.
Don't forget that this is all played out as a series of imaginary monologues, with a nonexistent tabloid TV interviewer, Sergio O’Kane.
Incredibly, Damián becomes involved in family life as it begins to fall apart, from the wardrobe. The novel's conclusion is more bizarre even than what has gone before, though not by any means illogical.
Millás blends humour with surrealism and absurdism with a good deal of success. Its a short, engorssing and highly entertaining read.
There's a hint of Antione Laurain about it, but really, its hard to compare it to anything I've read.
Georg wrote: "Tam wrote: "Georg wrote: "Tam wrote(245): "Georg wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: torturers have individual responsibility, and should not be allowed to fall back on the "I was only obeying orders" excus..."I see current justice, as it is largely practised, globally, as a somewhat arbitrary thing, much like your quote about the rope makers. Its the power structure that is 'the elephant in the room'. The fact that a madman like Putin can kill thousands just on his whim of making a legacy or something, just because he has the power to do that. Or George Bush, or Tony Blair and the Iraq war... Syria and Assad... it goes on and on? I don't have a problem at all with locking up dangerous people but when/how do we know that they are no longer dangerous?... I don't know...
I suppose that is what I mean by a layered problem. How do we create a society with kind and happy, content people? And even do we want one? What would form the basis of the great stories/plays/films etc. in so much of our fiction, if we were all so happy that we didn't feel the need to create fictional worlds? Is that the definition of a 'better' world? I only have questions it seems.
Would the world be a better place if Jimmy Boyle had been left to rot in jail, for the whole of his life? I don't think so. As to holding the Nazi's to account I have always supported that, but you still have to ask actually what 'to account' actually means. I'm not a supporter of the death penalty. Too many innocent people have been shafted by those with greater power, such as policeman. I don't have answers, just a few thoughts along the way... and my own feelings about those thoughts... But I do like to know what others are thinking, and they should be free to tell us whatever that is. I don't think that there is such a thing as 'a right way' that applies to everyone, our values are just too different. But we do need an agreed set of rules by which we should abide just in order to avoid causing suffering to others. So I'm not much help really...
I guess I'm a bit of a bleeding heart liberal... lapsed hippy or whatever. I'm happy to be so...
Russell wrote: "@giveus – Thanks for the recommendation of Cold Tuscan Stone by David P Wagner. I enjoyed it, and it evokes Volterra beautifully."Glad you liked it Russell. I am so looking forward to going in September.
Tam wrote: "Georg wrote: "Tam wrote: "Georg wrote: "Tam wrote(245): "Georg wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: torturers have individual responsibility, and should not be allowed to fall back on the "I was only obeying..."I note that you have avoided answering my questions.
As to holding the Nazi's to account I have always supported that, but you still have to ask actually what 'to account' actually means. I'm not a supporter of the death penalty...
No, I do not have to ask myself what 'to account' actually means when it comes to the Nuremburg trials.
Only about 200 people were tried. I reckon that is about 10-30% at best of those who should have been.
Only 13 (iirc) were hanged. Like you I am against the death penalty. They should have been left to rot in jail for the rest of their lives. Only: chances are they would have been out after 5/10/20 years.
Thousands who were responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths were never taken to account and went off scot free. Many of them rebuilt their career in postwar Germany and ended their lives as highly respected citizens. They got a second chance indeed.
Sorry, but when it comes to (mass) murderers (whether direct or indirect) I have no inclination to follow your bleeding-heart leftie liberal arguments trying to find excuses for their likes. And I still consider myself to be a liberal leftie. Maybe mistakenly so.
Robert - I have been looking at some of your lovely photos. Is there any chance you can edit to show where/what they are.Many thanks.
Georg wrote: "Tam wrote: "Georg wrote: "Tam wrote: "Georg wrote: "Tam wrote(245): "Georg wrote: "scarletnoir wrote: torturers have individual responsibility, and should not be allowed to fall back on the "I was ..."I just have to ask - why continue with this, Georg? What is your purpose?
I know I may be considered some sort of wimp, however for me, it is better and more healthy (BPwise) to let go. As each one of us has had our own unique life experiences that shaped us, our opinions, and how we react in situations, I say, let it go.
Andy wrote: "and, From the Shadows by Juan José Millás translated from the Spainsh by Daniel Hahn. This is an original and quirky dark come..."
I like the sounds of this one and, after reading up a bit on him, the author himself as well. Seems like not too many of his earlier books have been translated into English, unfortunately, although I've only checked the 1990s ones so far.
Sad news that the BBC are making more cuts, BBC 4 is being closed down, a channel i have always enjoyedCultural vandalism by the tories, all part of their belief in the Murdoch agenda, in starving the BBC of funds. I have tried to comment about this in the G but it always got removed!
I've just made my weekly foray into the Washington Post's Book Section and found a lovely piece by Elinor Lipman - https://www.washingtonpost.com/books/...I hope the Post allows one freebie a month and you haven't used it!
Mod
I hop..."
I couldn't access it :(. I really like Elinor Lipman's books.
Gpfr wrote: "MK wrote: "I've just made my weekly foray into the Washington Post's Book Section and found a lovely piece by Elinor Lipman - https://www.washingtonpost.com/books/......"@Gpfr - I subscribe so when I didn't do that, I found I could access the Elinor Lipman piece. I'm thinking you may have used up free access for the month. I don't know if clearing your cache would help (I'm always told to do that by what I think are lazy techies), or if waiting 'til June which is around the corner and trying again would work. When I can't figure something like this out, I logon when next at the library (free but time-limited access for me) and try it there.
It really is a nice piece.
I finished Marguerite Yourcenar's "Memoirs of Hadrian" last night - what a marvellous book, in which Hadrian, approaching the end of his time, narrates his life to his chosen successor, Marcus Aurelius. Set amidst tectonic historic shifts, it has an incredible intimacy and quietness. As I said in a previous post, Hadrian's "voice" is utterly distinctive and credible from the first sentence. Though no doubt rooted in much research (and there are some interesting materials on the construction of the novel included that I look forward to reading), I don't think it matters one iota whether or not this faithful to what is known of Hadrian's life. This is a meditation on the self in the world, in how we tell our lives. And, in the end, it is very explicitly what it has really been throughout: a meditation on death.
I meant to do this a few days ago but got very busy: thank you CCC for the lovely story about your 50th birthday and the bees. And to everyone who passed on birthday wishes to my wife.
To add a note to the discussion on Wannsee, last night we watched a documentary called The Last Days (1998, re-mastered 2021) on the fate of the Hungarian Jews, recounted largely by five survivors. The events are well known but what they describe is still terrible, terrible, terrible. There was summary justice for some of the guards.
My next classic novel is an Agatha Christie, her 1951 mystery novel They Came to Baghdad. I'm fond of Iraq and have read a few novels set in the city, the best by far was Hunters in a Lonely Street by Jabra Ibrahim Jabra in the 1950s.I like the style already, i havent read any Christie since school and i was interested in a non Marple-Poirot to start my Christie re-education.
AB76 wrote: "My next classic novel is an Agatha Christie, her 1951 mystery novel They Came to Baghdad. I'm fond of Iraq and have read a few novels set in the city, the best by far was Hunters in a Lonely Street by Jabra Ibrahim Jabra in the 1950s.I like the style already, i havent read any Christie since school and i was interested in a non Marple-Poirot to start my Christie re-education."
Like you, I haven't read them since my school days, so my memories are hazy but I recall liking that one and her other espionage or international intrigue books, e.g. Passenger to Frankfurt and Destination Unknown. I'd like to re-read them all some day, her books brought me so much pleasure as a child.
A couple of very pleasant days in the company of The Slaves of Solitude by Patrick Hamilton.
To find humour in the bleakest of situations is a skill indeed, and always rewarding to read about.
This is set in the middle of the Second World War, in 1943 when no doubt spirits were wearied by deprivation, and the overriding concern was when would the bombings, the blackouts, the death, all end.
It is the story in particular of a chapter, and a very significant one, in the life of Miss Roach. She is in her late thirties, single, and has taken a room at the Rosamund Tea Rooms boarding house, where a number of other grey and lifeless souls exist, struggling to fit in to the affected society outside.
Rather than being driven by plot, this is a fascinating and amusing depiction of the handful of characters at the boarding house. Hamilton excels in the depiction of the suffocating atmosphere they exist in.
The first half of the novel is spent getting to know the tenants, and the second half concerned with their behaviour, as their interactions begin to grate on each other. Within the house itself it seems, the battle endures as it does outside. On its stage are the most impassioned and fierce of conflicts, though in miniature, and in undertones. Anger simmers, revoked by Miss Roach's ways and manners, which she clings determinedly to.
Here's a couple of clips from early in the book, as the residents are introduced..
(Mrs Barratt..)
An elderly believer in magic, with passion yet patience she sought and sought for ideal remedies, without ever a thought of abandoning her quest. Mrs Barratt’s eyes, behind her enlarging pince-nez, bore, if one could but see it, the wan, indefatigable, midnight-oil look of one who had yet faith in the Philosopher’s Stone of the sedentary sufferer inside. She gave her mind over to research, and her body over to endless experiment upon herself. No new advertisement in the paper, with a fresh anger, approach, or appeal, ever escaped her close inspection, nor did any article ‘By a Doctor’ or ‘By a Harley Street Specialist’. She grew iller and iller - an ageing, eerie product of the marriage between modern commercial methods and modern medicine.
and,
Miss Steele was a thin, quiet woman of about sixty, who used rouge and powder somewhat heavily, whose white, frizzy, well-kept hair had the appearance of being, without being, a wig, and whose whole manner gave the impression of her having, without her having had, a past. She was careful to avow at all times her predilection for ‘fun’, for ‘cocktails’, for ‘broadmindedness’, for those who in common with her were ‘cursed’ with a sense of humour, and for the company of young people as opposed to ‘old fogies’ like herself. But she had, in fact, little fun, no cocktails, and no company younger than that furnished by the Rosamund Tea Rooms. She was also advanced in the matter of culture, for she had no time for ‘modern novels’. Instead she read endless Boots’ biographies of historical characters, and was, in fact, a historian.
I’d welcome suggestions as to what should be my next of Hamilton’s..
Berkley wrote: "Andy wrote: "and, From the Shadows by Juan José Millás translated from the Spainsh by Daniel Hahn. This is an original and qui..."
It was my first of his. Pleasantly eccentric. I’ve always time for that.
AB76 wrote: "My next classic novel is an Agatha Christie, her 1951 mystery novel They Came to Baghdad. I'm fond of Iraq and have read a few novels set in the city, the best by far was Hunters in a Lonely Stre..."Maybe I should do that also.. get back to a Christie.
Like you AB, I had a Christie-crush at 15-17 and read pretty much everything of hers. But nothing since..
Andy wrote: "A couple of very pleasant days in the company of The Slaves of Solitude by Patrick Hamilton. To find humour in the bleakest o..."
Assuming you've read Hangover Square, then I enjoyed the "Twenty Thousand Streets Under the Sky" trilogy.
Speaking of interwar British novels, I'm settling into a similar ambience, having just begun "Living" by Henry Green. So far so good.
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Books mentioned in this topic
The Cabinet (other topics)Uncle Charles Has Locked Himself In (other topics)
Uncle Charles Has Locked Himself In (other topics)
Across the Street (other topics)
The Cat (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Kim Un-Su (other topics)Georges Simenon (other topics)
Georges Simenon (other topics)
Georges Simenon (other topics)
Amos Tutuola (other topics)
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That was the main point mad..."
It really is not a challenge to me. I'm always up for a discussion of different views, and I really like hearing about views that are different from mine, as its how I learn more about the world. It's a differing about some particular points of view perhaps, but way more interesting to me is how those views come about... I'm still actually a bit puzzled as to how some of my own have actually evolved... as such... any way delighted to hear from your perspectives....