BOTM for APRIL: option 1 - The Secret Garden

[Jemima]

This thread is for your comments on The Secret Garden which is ONE of our April choices.

Please remember the guidance: Respect, tolerance, good vibes.

Feel free to comment as you wish within those ideals. Try not to reveal the plot (in case people are new to it!) or if you want to specify something about a plot point put it in 'spoiler' tags, using square brackets.

Enjoy!

See the other post for comments on Seedfolks :)

[Manybooks]

One of my favourites, looking forward to revisiting. And if anyone is considering the recent graphic novel adaptation, I am definitely interested in reading their assessments as mine has been really quite negative and I am kind of wondering if others will have the same reaction or a more positive one.

[Janice]

Manybooks wrote: "One of my favourites, looking forward to revisiting. And if anyone is considering the recent graphic novel adaptation, I am definitely interested in reading their assessments as mine has been reall..."

I am still waiting for my copy from the library. :) I hope that I will enjoy it. :)

[Harley]

Finished. Enjoyed it as much as I did the last time I read it about twelve years ago. Great book.

[Manybooks]

The Secret Garden

(view spoiler)[I first read this wonderful and evocative absolute and utter gem of a story at around the age of twelve (and it was likely one of the first longer novels I read entirely in English, not counting those books read entirely for school). And I simply adored Frances Hodgson Burnett's The Secret Garden when I read it as a young teenager (or rather, a tween), I continued to love it when I reread it multiple times while at university, and I still massively loved the novel when I reread the story for the Children's Literature Group in 2011 (and I much continue to love it, having reread it at least twice or so since then). And indeed I honestly do think that I have actually enjoyed The Secret Garden even more as an adult than the times I read the novel when I was younger (and that is definitely saying an awful lot). For when I first read The Secret Garden as a young teenager, I was certainly much enchanted by the garden (and of course, the Robin), and really liked and enjoyed reading about the Sowerbys, but I did kind of consider both Mary and Colin as somewhat too spoiled and selfish (I understood their problems and indeed felt empathy, but I also felt more than a bit annoyed at and by them, something that I certainly did not experience as much during my adult rereads). Because as an adult reader, I actually and firmly believe that most, if not even all of both Mary's and Colin's problems and behavioural quirks (be they emotional or physical) were and are the result of parental abandonment and emotional neglect (maybe even abuse). They act and react towards the world the way the world (or at least how most of the world) has always acted and reacted towards them. And without the garden, but also without characters like Martha, Susan and Dickon Sowerby, without Ben Weatherstaff and the Robin, there would never have been any change in and for Mary (or at least, not ever enough change), and by extension, there would never have been any change in and for Colin and his father either.

Now one interesting and thought-provoking fact presented in The Secret Garden is that there actually seems to be a real and almost palpable absence of nurturing father figures throughout (except maybe Dickon, but he is just a boy and in many ways resembles more a Pan-like nature deity, and Ben Weatherstaff really is too old and curmudgeonly to be considered nurturing and fatherly). We do have quite a number of nurturing mother figures portrayed who aid Mary, and later Colin in their recovery (Susan and Martha Sowerby, and even Mary later becomes somewhat of a motherly and nurturing figure towards Colin), but we never see or hear much about a Mr. Sowerby (he is a complete nonentity). And while indeed much is made of the fact that Mary Lennox' mother did not seem to want her child (a fact that is rightfully criticised), that Mr. Lennox did not trouble himself much about his daughter either, while mentioned briefly, is also seemingly accepted as an acceptable societal given. Also that Mr. Craven has spiritually and emotionally totally abandoned Colin, and cannot stand to even see him when he is awake just because his son's eyes supposedly remind him of the boy's dead mother, while this is indeed noted in The Secret Garden, his rather vile and nasty attitude and behaviour towards Colin, towards his son is not (at least in my humble opinion) subject to nearly the same amount of harsh criticisms that Mary's emotional and spiritual abandonment by her mother is. And while I do realise and even understand that the death of Mr. Craven's wife was traumatic for him, both Mr. Carven's and Mrs. Lennox' actions, or rather their lack of love and acceptance towards their children have had the same horrible psychological (and psychosomatic) consequences, basically turning both of them into emotional cripples, and Colin into a hysterical hypochondriac who thinks he has a crooked back.

The Secret Garden clearly and lastingly demonstrates that children (no that anyone) can only show love, can only be lovable, if they have experienced love themselves. In the beginning of the novel, Mary is described as tyrannical, unpleasant, thoroughly "unlovable" and also as somewhat odd. But how can Mary know anything about love, if she has never experienced love? Her parents certainly do not seem to want her, and she has basically been abandoned to the care of servants, who have also been instructed to keep Mary out of the way as much as possible (and in her innermost soul, Mary likely also realises this and much and rightly resents this). Mary's temper tantrums towards her Ayah and other servants, her desire to always get her own way, are not merely Mary imitating the behaviour she witnesses among the ex-pat community in India (although that likely also has a major part to play). I believe that in many ways, the servants also act as representatives of her absent parents, and by lashing out at the servants, Mary is also lashing out at her careless, unloving, absent parents by proxy.

And even when Mary first arrives at Misselthwaite, there is still a real and ever-present danger that she will never be able to change, to emerge out of her shell (or to change enough, for at least in England, Mary has the opportunity to go outside and play/run, which was not possible in India due to the hot, stiflingly humid climate), for many of the inhabitants of the manor, but especially Mrs. Medlock and Mr. Craven regard Mary, or seem to regard Mary the same way that her parents did, either not at all, or as a cumbersome, even loathsome burden. And without Martha, Dickon, and the influence of Martha's mother (Mrs. Sowerby), and of course, Ben Weatherstaff and the Robin (who is a bird, but might just represent the spirit of Colin's deceased mother), not much would likely have ever changed for Mary or within Mary. There might well have been some physical improvement of her health, but her mental health, her soul, would likely have remained for the most part sour and disagreeable and stagnated.

Finally, I do have to admit that I have a bit of a problem with the fact that oh so many of the adults portrayed in The Secret Garden (and even inherently positive individuals like Martha and Susan Sowerby) keep bringing up the fact that Mary's mother was supposedly very physically attractive, and that in many ways, Mary is often judged negatively because she is plain, while her mother was considered very beautiful. However, Mary's mother does not in any way care about or for her daughter, and had, in fact, never wanted a daughter, and in my opinion, her careless, unloving attitude (and that of her husband as well) is reflected in Mary's countenance, her whole being. Thus, even though Mrs. Lennox might have been physically sweet looking, she basically has a careless and unloving and massively sour (read nastily ugly) soul, which is in my opinion reflected in her daughter (both spiritually and physically).

And just to furthermore point out that this here "Norton Critical Edition" of The Secret Garden (which seems to have been published in 2006) is to be most highly recommended, especially for anyone interested in both the novel (the narrative) and its historical contexts, diverse critical voices etc., as it provides not only the text proper (which is simply and utterly magical, of course), but also much supplemental information and materials about Frances Hodgson Burnett and her timeless literary classic. And although I do not think that this edition lists every piece of extant literary criticism on The Secret Garden, there truly and fortunately is a goodly amount presented, as well as a solid, although not extensive selected bibliography (most definitely a more than adequate starting point for serious academic study and research). (hide spoiler)]

[Janice]

Manybooks wrote: "One of my favourites, looking forward to revisiting. And if anyone is considering the recent graphic novel adaptation, I am definitely interested in reading their assessments as mine has been reall..."

I picked up my copy from the library today and read it this afternoon and I have to say I didn't enjoy it at all!!! I am still new at reading graphic novels and have read 5 so far this year that I really enjoyed. I just couldn't connect or be engaged by the characters in this version of The Secret Garden and I didn't like the illustrations either. If I hadn't read the original then I don't think I would have followed the story in the graphic novel version. If someone asked me if they should read the original or the graphic version novel then I would 100% say the original.

[Manybooks]

Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "One of my favourites, looking forward to revisiting. And if anyone is considering the recent graphic novel adaptation, I am definitely interested in reading their assessments as m..."


(view spoiler)[also just hated the graphic novel adaptation. The fact that the entire India backstory is just left out makes me absolutely furious (as that whole scenario is so important with regard to why Mary Lennox is so sour and disagreeable and also so arrogant towards Martha and the other employees at the manor when she first arrives). And having Ben Weatherstaff the gardener be depicted, be drawn as not an old but as a young (or rather a youngish) man just does not make any sense either, for part of Ben Weatherstaff's charm and being is that he is old, a bit curmudgeonly but actually also truly understands not only Mary but also why Mary has emotional issues (and Ben's gathered through the years gardening knowledge and that the secret garden was kept alive because Ben many years ago made a promise to Colin's dead mother that he would take of the her special garden, this just does not make sense for an illustrated young man, as the novel pretty clearly insinuates that Ben Weatherstaff was already rather elderly when Colin's Mother, when Mrs. Craven. was still alive).

Maybe younger readers who are heavily into graphic novels might enjoy this and find a path towards the original novel, to The Secret Garden this way, but I really and truly have hated this. (hide spoiler)]

[Jemima]

Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "One of my favourites, looking forward to revisiting. And if anyone is considering the recent graphic novel adaptation, I am definitely interested in reading their a..."

Thanks for the spoiler tag! I actually read it in my email feed, and was worried you hadn't, but you had. :)

I decided I should read it again, as it was one of the required childhood reads that I disliked at the time, and could never see why people liked it (apart from Dickon).

As I got into the first few chapters, I realised why I didn't like it. Mary has far too many qualities like the young me. (I was quite a solitary child). And I suspect I found the Yorkshire hard. Now I can speak Yorkshire, I wonder how it goes down with you folks.

But by the time she finds Colin, I was bored with it. Again. There's a lot of patronising points made, and restated, that a bright child will get first time. It reeks of the same style that drives me mad in The Hobbit.

So nothing's really changed for me, although I entirely agree with Manybook's many points. It's not really surprising that the generation after the Victorians were so screwed up, and possibly it's the reason for so much violence in the world - another thing inherited through the post-colonial generations.

Did I say I disliked it? No, I actually hate this book, and the whole idea of it! Despite all the gorgeous nature description. My dread after you nominated it was fully justified!

It would be interesting to find a modern alternative version - i.e. same plot, in today's society. Maybe one of us should write it :)

[Manybooks]

Jemima wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "One of my favourites, looking forward to revisiting. And if anyone is considering the recent graphic novel adaptation, I am definitely interested ..."

I actually rather disliked Mary when I read the book as a teenager but the older I got, the more I liked and understood Mary and the more I very actively hated Mary’s dead parents and also to a point Mrs. Medlock.

I am sorry you hated the book but I love it and do consider it a personal favourite. But there are actually many classic novels for children that everyone seems to love but which I do not, so all this goes both ways. For example, The Wind in the Willows and Watership Down are too anthropomorphic for me .

[Manybooks]

Jemima wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "One of my favourites, looking forward to revisiting. And if anyone is considering the recent graphic novel adaptation, I am definitely interested ..."

There is The Humming Room which I really did not like because it felt too derivative and also quite creepy. But some readers did really enjoy it, so you might want to try it out.

[Janice]

Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "One of my favourites, looking forward to revisiting. And if anyone is considering the recent graphic novel adaptation, I am definitely interested in reading their a..."

I agree with everything you have said!!!

[Janice]

Manybooks wrote: "Jemima wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "One of my favourites, looking forward to revisiting. And if anyone is considering the recent graphic novel adaptation, I am definit..."

I thought I was the only one that didn't really like The Wind in the Willows and I have never had a desire to read Watership Down.

[Manybooks]

Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Jemima wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "One of my favourites, looking forward to revisiting. And if anyone is considering the recent graphic novel adapta..."

Oh I am so glad that you also do not like The Wind in the Willows. I am just not much into anthropomorphic animal tales except for Black Beauty and in that case, the horses still act like horses.

[Jemima]

Janice wrote: I thought I was the only one that didn't really like The Wind in the Willows and I have never had a desire to read Watership Down.."

Ah well, there we are, you see! I love Wind in the Willows. Not so keen on Watership Down, but I've only read that once. I loved William Horwood's books, though they are more animal society than anthropomorphic - especially The Stonor Eagles
Good thing for the authors we love different things :0

[Manybooks]

Jemima wrote: "Janice wrote: I thought I was the only one that didn't really like The Wind in the Willows and I have never had a desire to read Watership Down.."

Ah well, there we are, you see! I love Wind in th..."

And for me novels about animals that are too anthropomorphic I just do not like all that much. I do as mentioned above love Black Beauty but the horses still always act like typical horses and in The Secret Garden, the character of the Robin might help Mary but thankfully never starts talking to the children in human speech (even though Dickon understands animals). In the Norton Critical Edition of The Secret Garden, it is stated that Frances Hodgson Burnett actually felt that an English Robin she repeatedly saw in a garden whilst she was visiting England was in fact trying to court her.

[Manybooks]

I know this might be a bit off topic but what I like so much about Mary and Colin is that they are flawed and not perfect, that both are not without faults, which I find so much more appealing than the character of Marco Loristan in Burnett’s The Lost Prince and also a bit Cedric from Little Lord Fauntleroy who are kind of described as being perfect just because of their exalted backgrounds.

[Jemima]

Manybooks wrote: "I know this might be a bit off topic but what I like so much about Mary and Colin is that they are flawed and not perfect, that both are not without faults, which I find so much more appealing than..."

I don't think that's off topic! And I think that is probably the secret of its enduring popularity.
One thing you mentioned that I didn't know, which may explain everything. FHB 'visiting England'. So she wasn't British? That explains a lot to me. It always puzzled me why Mary could go outside in winter, in the blast across the Yorkshire moors, and not be frozen stiff, especially having come from India.
And robins are well known for teaching their humans to give them what they want. Mine has just conned me into supplying him (and his family) with live mealworms!

[Manybooks]

Jemima wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "I know this might be a bit off topic but what I like so much about Mary and Colin is that they are flawed and not perfect, that both are not without faults, which I find so much m..."

Frances Hodgson Burnett was born in England but moved to the USA with her family when she was fifteen. Most of her children’s novels take place in England though, and Little Lord Fauntleroy features both the USA and England.

We do not have English Robins in Canada, but American Robins are also pretty cheeky and seem to like people.

[Janice]

Manybooks wrote: "Jemima wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "I know this might be a bit off topic but what I like so much about Mary and Colin is that they are flawed and not perfect, that both are not without faults, which I..."

I love American Robins and am so happy when they return. <3

[Manybooks]

Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Jemima wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "I know this might be a bit off topic but what I like so much about Mary and Colin is that they are flawed and not perfect, that both are not witho..."

I do too, but my favourite birds are woodpeckers and chickadees.

[Janice]

Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Jemima wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "I know this might be a bit off topic but what I like so much about Mary and Colin is that they are flawed and not perfect, that bot..."

I love a lot of birds as well but when I first hear the American Robin then I know Spring will be coming back except this week the weather has been snow and -19 at night!!!

[Manybooks]

When I read The Secret Garden as a teenager, Dickon was one of my favourite characters. But during my rereads as an adult, while I still appreciate Dickon, I also think he is a bit too flawless and unrealistic, more like a nature deity than a boy.

[Manybooks]

Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Jemima wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "I know this might be a bit off topic but what I like so much about Mary and Colin is that they are flawed and not..."

Wow, that sure is cold for this time of year! And even though I do love winter, minus 19 in April is a bit extreme.

[Janice]

Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Jemima wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "I know this might be a bit off topic but what I like so much about Mary and Colin is that they are..."

Yes, it sure is cold for April considering the Friday before it was +20. Hopefully, Spring weather will return soon. I actually had never read this book as a child.

[Manybooks]

Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Janice wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Jemima wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "I know this might be a bit off topic but what I like so much about Mary and Coli..."

Yeah, weather has sure been up and down, but I actually like winter.

[Manybooks]

I also think that The Secret Garden really shows how neglect, rumour etc. can make children really ill psychologically and physically.

[SaraKat]

I somehow missed this book as a child, so I read it as an adult for the first time. The book is very old-fashioned and the characters speak so innocently that I'm not sure that today's children will enjoy this book as well as I did. I am a fan of gardening and I love historical fiction, so those aspects of the book were a winner. I usually put sticky notes on phrases or passages that I like, but this book didn't really make me bring out he post-its. The language was simple and a bit repetitive. Also, I have to say that this family has some of the worst parenting skills I've ever encountered. I'm glad the garden was there to fix all their mistakes. :)

[Manybooks]

Luckily, Mary Lennox' parents died, as they would have totally ruined her.