Re-booting this group

[Lorri]

Linda_G wrote: "Interesting choices for October Lorri.

Trollope is an interesting choice in my opinion. In many ways his writing reminds me of George Eliot, although I would say the writing is more accessible, le..."

Apparently, Puck, or Robin Goodfellow, is a character from folklore. In some folklore, Puck is another name for Satan or the Devil himself. Pucks, plural, are imps associated with household mischief and midwives. Puck(s) are not usually associated with good works or goodness.

However, Shakespeare reverses the common conceptions about Puck and evil fairies. Oberon describes how some spirits harm mortals and the land but then claims "But we are spirits of another sort” (Act 3, Scene 2).

In this play, Puck is also Hobgoblin, a lucky sprite that helps around the house (Act 2, Scene 1). In Act 3, scene 1, Puck admits "And those things do best please me / That befall prepost’rously.” So, he laughs at foolish mortals and returns kindness for kindness.

The final images of the fairies have them blessing the house and the marriage beds and the spirit Puck claiming he is honest and will make amends to the audience if the play offends them.

[Lorri]

I believe most of Shakespeare's audience would have believed in some form of supernatural beings. I also believe Shakespeare deliberately uses myths, fairies, and folklore imagery instead of Biblical supernatural beings to avoid the many religious controversies of his day.

Ariel vs. Puck
-Both are mortal-sized immortal spirits with super speed and dominion over nature
-Both are held somewhat in check by a more powerful master
-Ariel is a temporary indentured servant but Puck has more freedom as Oberon's subject and jester
-Ariel comments on Prospero's plans but Puck only carelessly follows Oberon's orders
-Ariel is somber but Puck is gleeful
-Ariel is gender-neutral but Puck is male

[Linda_G]

The sheer diversity in the cast of characters is noteworthy in itself.

And Love and Rejected Love. High respect and those of high respect brought low.

There was a day when the serf's ruled the masters and had plays - comical - satiric in a kind way and in a not so kind way . I don't remember the name of the day. But it seems some of those characteristics are in A Midsummer's Night Dream.

[Lorri]

I am fascinated by Shakespeare’s explorations of loyalty in love. Shakespeare implies that to keep a marriage happy and healthy, the lovers must place their love above everybody even when that means becoming disloyal to old friends. The rift with Oberon is caused by Titania’s overriding loyalty to her late friend. And, by betraying Hermia’s elopement plans to Demetrius, Helena proves the uninterested depths of her love for him. Yet, Oberon and Titania are not sexually loyal to each other. Thus, sexual fidelity is not a necessity in marriage.

Shakespeare differentiates between true love and carnal lust/infatuation, which he calls “doting.” The juice from the “love-in-idleness” (What an apt name!) flower causes doting—not love. The juice works on the external or physical but not on the internal or heart. So, lust can be incited and enflamed but not true love. Like Helena claims: “Love looks not with the eyes, but with the mind” (Act 1, Scene 1).

Source: William Shakespeare. A Midsummer Night’s Dream. 1605.

[Lorri]

I am fascinated by the theme of perspective-taking with many references to eyes, seeing, and looking.

[Linda_G]

I was just thinking about the relationship between Titania and Oberon last night. And thinking I need to go revisit their scenes in the play. I did not quite get the dynamic between them. Thanks for your summary of them Lori

[Lorri]

My October (Victober) TBR:

- David Copperfield Charles Dickens
- The Half Sisters Geraldine Jewsbury
- Barchester Towers Trollope
- Life in the Sick-Room Autobiographical Essays by Harriet Martineau available on The Internet Archive
- The Diary of a Nobody George and Weedon Grossmith
- Love Letters of Robert Browning and Elizabeth Barrett 1845-46 edited by their son Robert Barrett Browning (currently reading)
- Poetry: Sonnets from the Portuguese Elizabeth Barrett Browning, The Pied Piper of Hamelin, Home Thoughts From Abroad, and Rabbi Ben Ezra Robert Browning, and Goblin Market Christina Rossetti
- Short stories: “The Portrait of Mr. W.H." speculations about William Shakespeare, “Lord Arthur Savile’s Crime,” “The Sphinx Without a Secret,” and “The Model Millionaire” by Oscar Wilde and “To Be Read at Dusk” Dickens

[Linda_G]

Such interesting reads Lorri !

I am always ready to discuss Trollope if you feel so inclined.

I may try to include some of the short stories and poetry in my October reading. The Dickens short story title is intriguing.

[Linda_G]

Lorri wrote: "I believe most of Shakespeare's audience would have believed in some form of supernatural beings. I also believe Shakespeare deliberately uses myths, fairies, and folklore imagery instead of Biblic..."

Thanks for your summary on Puck and Ariel. I just noticed it. I must have skipped over it. Particularly interesting is your noticing the difference in their personalities and their sexual identity.

[Linda_G]

Lorri wrote: "Linda_G wrote: "Interesting choices for October Lorri.

This is my response to "Lorri's first Puck summary".

Well, I am reading backwards ! Again you provide lovely observations of this character Puck and bring out key differences between the fairy Puck and Ariel, later discussed.

You bring out the complexity in these fairies, called Pucks or Hobgoblins. It's my thought that the complexity shows the merging of magical beliefs - from the Roman Household Gods, to Norse magic creatures, to the woodland fairies of the Celts, Scots, Welsh, Saxon, Norman and many other cultural contributions. I am not knowledgable about the history fairy creatures but this makes me think of the many cultures that have combined to create the England of Shakespeare's day.

[Linda_G]

Lorri wrote: "I am fascinated by the theme of perspective-taking with many references to eyes, seeing, and looking."

I have a copy of a paper from the University of Warwick, written by a Professor Jonathan Bate, in which he writes of the play,"Pyramus and Thisbe", put on by the rustics at the end of MSND. First Prof. Bates points out that the scenes of this rude production, give us some insight to the actual productions of Shakespeare's plays, in that the audience is involved with the play, making comments to the actors and generally mock the play as it happens.

secondly, Prof Bates refers to the scene where Snug the Joiner comes onstage playing the part of a lion. Snug worries that his roar will frighten the ladies and indeed his lines in the play speak to the ladies in the audience.

The following paragraph by Prof Bates, makes interesting observations about the perception of reality ( or not ) on the stage. The following is a quote from Prof Bates:

"So by saying that I am Snug the Joiner, he's telling them it's all right. I'm not really a lion. It's only a play. ‘This is the silliest stuff I ever heard’ say Hippolyta, but Theseus replies interes􏰏ngly, ‘The best in this kind are but shadows; and the worst are no worse, if imagination amend them’. Actors, he says are always like shadows. They're not real people. They're the shadows of real people. And it requires the imagination of the audience to make the leap, to believe that they are real."

My addition: This scene acts out the various viewpoints of actors and audience and the transformation of perception during the performance of the play.

[Lorri]

Linda_G wrote: "Lorri wrote: "I am fascinated by the theme of perspective-taking with many references to eyes, seeing, and looking."

I have a copy of a paper from the University of Warwick, written by a Professor..."

I love your additions. I am learning more about stagecraft, performance, and plays from Shakespeare than anywhere else! And the more I learn about plays the more I comprehend the complexities in Shakespeare's plays.

I believe you'd really enjoy the Great Courses How to Read and Understand Shakespeare because it tells you what to look for and then applies it to a specific play.

[Lorri]

Although A Midsummer Night's Dream continues to stay with me, I really loved The Merchant of Venice. I love the "quality of mercy" speech and theme along with all the other themes. Eventually, I will have to reread it along with Measure for Measure to see which is my favorite.

[Lorri]

Lorri wrote: "My October (Victober) TBR:

- David Copperfield Charles Dickens
- The Half Sisters Geraldine Jewsbury
- Barchester Towers Trollope
- Life in the Sick-Room Autobiographical Essays by..."

I read all of these except "To Be Read at Dusk," which I postponed to another year. The focus on chronic illness and disability representation was quite interesting. The RB and EBB letters were very romantic and Romantic with a capital "R." But this was only volume 1 and ran 527 pages, so I'll read volume 2 (562 pages) another year. I was disappointed with DC but loved BT.

[Lorri]

Barchester Towers was my favorite book of Victober. I love Trollope's rounded characters, realistic situations, wry humor, and self-deprecating asides. I look forward to reading Doctor Thorne next spring.

[Lorri]

I plan on staying away from classics in December. But here's my November American Literature TBR:

- Little Men Louisa May Alcott
- Jo’s Boys Louisa May Alcott
- Woman in the Nineteenth Century Margaret Fuller
- The Song of the Lark Willa Sibert Cather
- The Age of Innocence (Oxford ed.) Edith Wharton
- The Secret Garden Francis Hodgson Burnett (both British and American)