01) The Killer of Little Shepherds (Apr 1)

[Lisa, Moderator]

Welcome to our discussion about The Killer of Little Shepherds: A True Crime Story and the Birth of Forensic Science, by Douglas Starr, which is part of our Spring/Summer Collection Group Reads. Your discussion leader is Lisa.
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Summary

A riveting true crime story that vividly recounts the birth of modern forensics.
At the end of the nineteenth century, serial murderer Joseph Vacher, known and feared as "The Killer of Little Shepherds," terrorized the French countryside. He eluded authorities for years--until he ran up against prosecutor Emile Fourquet and Dr. Alexandre Lacassagne, the era's most renowned criminologist. The two men typified the Belle Epoque, a period of immense scientific achievement and fascination with science's promise to reveal the secrets of the human condition.

With high drama and stunning detail, Douglas Starr revisits Vacher's infamous crime wave, interweaving the story of how Lacassagne and his colleagues were developing forensic science as we know it. We see one of the earliest uses of criminal profiling. We follow the tense and exciting events leading to the murderer's arrest. And we witness the twists and turns of the trial, celebrated in its day.

"The Killer of Little Shepherds" is an important contribution to the history of criminal justice, impressively researched and thrillingly told.

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

Is anyone finding this at their library?

[Lisa, Moderator]

˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜ wrote: "Is anyone finding this at their library?"

I did find it at mine, in all formats. Are you not having luck, Sheri?

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

Not at mine.

[Lisa, Moderator]

˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜ wrote: "Not at mine."

I did find it at Abe Books for $3.98. It stinks to have to pay anything, though.

[Lisa, Moderator]

Hi everyone, I just picked up mine from the library yesterday, starting in the next couple of days. I'm looking forward to discussing :)

[Leena]

I found it on Scribd.

[Gem , Moderator & Admin]

My library had this, I couldn't get a physical copy but did get an ebook.

I can not put this down but forensic anything is fascinating to me. While I applaud Lacassagne for trying to create a scientific approach to the various areas of autopsy and it's wonderful that he was able to prove some folks innocent of the crimes they were accused of. I find it rather ironic that much of what was proven to be fact (the science) has been proven incorrect with more modern and sophisticated technologies. You have to wonder how many people were put in jail or to death that were, in fact, innocent. Not that any system is perfect and they (Lacassagne and his contemporaries) certainly push forensics in the right direction.

As for Vacher, I am not liking him at all.

[Thieryn]

I may have not read the description very well, or maybe the author's skill is outstanding, because so far at 10% it reads as both a novel, a news article, and a PhD thesis. I am very confusedly excited!

[Lisa, Moderator]

Saha wrote: "I may have not read the description very well, or maybe the author's skill is outstanding, because so far at 10% it reads as both a novel, a news article, and a PhD thesis. I am very confusedly exc..."

LOL, this is great to hear! I'm so excited to start.

[Lisa, Moderator]

Gem wrote: "My library had this, I couldn't get a physical copy but did get an ebook.

I can not put this down but forensic anything is fascinating to me. While I applaud Lacassagne for trying to create a scie..."

That's a really great point, Gem.

[Lisa, Moderator]

Leena wrote: "I found it on Scribd."

Great to hear!

[Gem , Moderator & Admin]

I finished. I'm excited to hear what everyone else thinks.

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

I thought the book easily readable. I liked the alternating chapters. It made me realize that I've always harbored the notion that anyone who could do something horribly heinous must be insane BUT I failed to think that if they can painstakingly plan a crime, they're not insane and probably smarter than me. I'm still pondering on if there are natural born killers.

[Lisa, Moderator]

Sheri, are you finished too? I’d better get moving - I’m only on page 60. I’m loving it, though! The story of the autopsy of the man that they exhumed to determine his identity - fascinating! I just love this stuff.

[Leena]

Im starting today.

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

Lisa wrote: "Sheri, are you finished too? I’d better get moving - I’m only on page 60. I’m loving it, though! The story of the autopsy of the man that they exhumed to determine his identity - fascinating! I jus..."

Yes. Get moving girl 😄

[Lisa, Moderator]

Lol! You got it, Sheri 😉

[Thieryn]

I think I have a different experience than y'all. I found the book tedious to read - where I can read a book this size in a sitting, I am now on day 4 and really struggling to find the will to keep going. The parts where they are working on the Vacher case are really interesting, and at 54% where I am now, they are in the thick of it - everything else sadly reminds me of University readings, which I found really boring. Hope to finish it tonight!

[˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜, Moderator]

Saha, I agree that parts of it went into far too much detail, pouring over completely unrelated and unimportant details. I will confess I didn't read EVERY word.

I'm going to put a question in the form of a spoiler (or I'll forget it 😊) but don't read it until you're finished with the book. Ok?

(view spoiler)[ are you convinced that Vacher actually killed all the people he was accused of killing? Was he was trying to build the body count for his plea of insanity by confessing to a few? I didn't think they all fit his pattern. (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

[Thieryn]

˜”*°•.˜”*°• Sheri •°*”˜.•°*”˜ wrote: "I'm going to put a question in the form of a spoiler (or I'll forget it 😊) but don't read it until you're finished with the book. Ok?"

Responding to your question (view spoiler)[I think he killed the 11 people he admitted to when his guard was down. He had ample opportunity to claim additional murders but he didn't, I feel because it could backfire if he didn't have enough details for them as he did for the 11 he actually committed. Fourquet asked him, when in his cell, of 2 more and he didn't admit to them. (hide spoiler)]

[Lisa, Moderator]

I am absolutely loving some of these specifics on the advancement of forensic science. The development of Bertillionage is fantastic. And some of the very old-school lines of thinking are so humorous. "Well into the 18th century, physicians believed that a woman could be impregnated by the devil, and that severe alcoholics sometimes died of spontaneous combustion." And it's amazing that at the same time that these fantastic advancements were being made, this heavily disfigured man was roaming the countryside, killing at will and easily evading capture.

[Thieryn]

Lisa wrote: "Well into the 18th century, physicians believed that a woman could be impregnated by the devil."

Given some of her more creative verbal altercations, so does my mom apparently :P

[Lisa, Moderator]

This book is fascinating. Vacher is just infuriating in his rationalizations. It’s interesting to learn about the evolution of the insanity defense and how complicated it is.