Dickensians! discussion
This topic is about
Bleak House
Bleak House - Group Read 4
>
Bleak House: Chapters 1 - 10
Jean - I'm really hoping we get a clearer picture of Ada and that she ends up having more substance than we've seen so far! :) I do tend to judge because there are soooo many older works (and even modern ones!) where a woman is admired, adored and considered the best of the best simply because she's pretty and I have zero patience for that. Lol!
message 553:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 05, 2022 08:36AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
I've noticed that in nearly every novel, and some short stories by Charles Dickens, he often has a cameo sketch of a horse! I suppose it's because he was a good horseman himself and went out riding most days with John Forster. So he'd be used to their little ways, and would include them along with all his other caricatures.
Of the ones we've read together, I'm remembering the poor horse in David Copperfield who has Uriah Heep blowing up his nostrils! (I don't think that is a spoiler LOL!)
message 554:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 05, 2022 08:43AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Ah yes, I do well understand and sympathise about about how females are often portrayed in fiction, Natalie. What we have to remember is that this is Victorian fiction, and their mores were very different from ours. So it's no use bringing our 21st century cynicism to bear on it.
That why we have a group "Dickensians!" rule of "No sarcasm!" Once we start mocking their attitudes, or generally judging and being scornful, then we aren't going to get the most out of reading Victorian authors. We have to take them as of their time, and be glad when the authors seem to step outside their conventions. That's part of what makes a classic.
It's all too easy to be sarcastic about Charles Dickens, or other Victorian writers. Lots of GR groups have members who indulge in this, and I have even left one group because of it. Yet as you say, there are plenty of modern works where a heroine is vacuous, but admired. Personally my taste in modern fiction is for diversity ... but that's way off topic!
And please don't think I am criticising you, Natalie! Nor are you indulging in this extreme ... I'm just explaining the way the discussions here go. We try not to judge from our modern, educated free-thinking way, but to put ourselves in the time when Charles Dickens lived.
Back to Ada, and we know nothing much yet, and must not pre-judge, just because we disapprove of idealised young women in Victorian fiction! Our popular fiction has its own share of idealised females. It's just that ours tend to be different (and even sometimes have super-powers).
We assume Esther likes Ada because she is like the girls she taught at Greenleaf. Ada is gentle, kind, and sensitive, will have better accomplishments, is pretty and has a more graceful bearing. All these are positives to Esther. She's only known her for a couple of days so far, but these are her impressions.
Loved this chapter! It's very gothic. Unlike many here, I didn't think of the possibility of Lady Dedlock being Esther's mother, but did think that perhaps the missing soldier son may be her father. I suspect the missing son may reappear at some point.
However, in terms of the case of Jarndyce and Jarndyce, it makes more sense if Lady Dedlock were the parent. Mr. Guppy's reaction to Lady Dedlock's picture is very interesting and could substantiate this. Maybe. It'll be interesting to find out.
I really enjoyed the meeting of Watt and Rosa. What a sweet beginning of a story.
Chesney Wold is bigger than I had imagined. I would love to tour such a house.
The description of tourers was hilarious.
The ghost story was wonderful. Hearing the steps again means that something is coming down the road for the Dedlocks, whether they are in Lincolnshire or not.
Bionic Jean wrote: "and yes, he is the Mervyn Peake who wrote the The Gormenghast Novels! He was also an extremely talented illustrator."A dreadful book, in my opinion! Did anyone else who's in the group read it and enjoy it? Here's my review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Was anyone else wondering what the motivation behind Guppy's visit to Chesney Wold and his request for a tour under obviously false pretenses was? There is no way that he was unaware that the Dedlock's were the owners. I suspect that Guppy was also fully aware the Dedlocks were in Paris and not in residence.I smell a rat of some kind!
Jean - that’s flattering but I’m certainly not an expert, although I suppose it’s all relative!Speaking of which, you have pointed out that Sir Leicester has an aversion to the North Country and probably also to Scotland. It occurs to me that in London, Lincolnshire will be considered ‘up north’ and too far from ‘civilisation’. Lady Dedlock (whoever she is) certainly seems to think so! So again, it’s all relative!
There are some great contributions here. Thanks to all for your insights. It always amazes me how much there is to miss in Dickens.
I enjoyed this chapter--it's very dense with goodies.I'm intrigued by Mrs. Rouncewell, and the fact she's been in the house for 50 years means she might hold some juicy secrets.
I loved the animals--especially the dog:
"Then with that impatient shake of himself, he may growl in the spirit, 'Rain, rain, rain! Nothing but rain--and no family here!' as he goes in again, and lies down with a gloomy yawn." How many times have those of us who are dog-lovers watched that happen?
I really appreciate the history on Wat and Watt (who just had me saying What?). I must admit that rather than googling, I waited to come to this thread where I knew I'd get all the info I needed.
And love the Rockingham Castle info! We can definitely use our imaginations, Jean, to spookify it. :-)
Mod
I only mentioned the trilogy though, because it's not often known that Mervyn Peake was an illustrator as well as an author - and that he loved Bleak House so much.
As for Guppy, wait and see!
Kathleen wrote: "I really appreciate the history on Wat and Watt (who just had me saying What?)."Who's on first?
Natalie : "Watt also made a point of saying that she walks when “disgrace” is coming, which could mean, if Lady Dedlock is Esther’s mother, that the truth is about to come out. "Some type of calamity, illness or death seems to be on its way.
I have to say that I am a big fan of horses (all animals, really) and the idea of Lady Dedlock purposely trying to harm/lame the horses is horrible. And the person who would do such a thing is/was pure evil in my book.
message 563:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 05, 2022 09:37AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Actually I meant to say before about travelling ...
message 564:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 05, 2022 09:47AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Someone (sorry I forget who) said that only the rich could afford to travel, and how things never change. I didn't have time to comment at the time ...
Well I appreciate the sentiment behind this, but there are differences in the 19th century.
For the rich:
For a start there was no railway between Lincolnshire and London - and the roads were very basic - mud and stones. No cars, of course, only various sort of horse-drawn carriage, or an actual horse. The wheels would have wooden/metal rims; at any rate would clatter along, and the horses would get exhausted, so they needed to be changed every few hours at a coaching inn.
Sometimes folk got out and walked a bit, as it was so uncomfortable! Sometimes they drove through the night, or stopped overnight once or twice at a inn, to sleep. This is for a journey we wouldn't think twice of doing in less than a day now.
So that was for rich, or reasonably well-off people. Of the characters we have met so far, the Dedlocks do this, and so do the inhabitants of Bleak House, whenever they have legal matters in town.
For the poor:
Poor people could not afford carriages - but they did frequently have to move about - following work. So they walked! You might remember that the boy David Copperfield walked from (view spoiler), and it took him 3 or 4 days.
Seafaring people often had to walk, as the ships they worked on might not disembark at the same port they set off from. And in this novel we will meet poor people who have to walk routinely from London to the Home Counties, for their work, as well.
message 565:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 05, 2022 09:43AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Kathleen - I loved your dog quotation :)
Petra wrote: ".... did think that perhaps the missing soldier son may be her father. I suspect the missing son may reappear at some point..."
This is what I was I was thinking. And I was also wondering if the missing soldier was dead or simply did not return.
As others, I loved the beginning with the "fancy" of the animals and their various imaginations of past times. I think it's very curious that the animals here are more imaginative than the people, that they are better able to see beyond the present weather. The horses "may contemplate some mental pictures of fine weather on occasions, and may be better artists at them than the grooms," and they "may pass the long wet hours when the door is shut in livelier communication than is held in the servants' hall or at the Dedlock Arms." The dogs, rabbits, turkey, and even the goose have the power of imagination, but "there is not much fancy otherwise stirring" in Chesney Wold.
This fits nicely with the old Mrs. Rouncewell, whose stays could have been a "broad old-fashioned family fire-grate" without much surprise. This to me speaks of stiffness and constraint, of the body and perhaps metaphorically of the mind as well. She certainly knows her place, and she cannot imagine why her sons would not have wanted it too.
And the ghost story about poor Sir Morbury Dedlock's wife was my favorite part so far. So eerie! I can well imagine someone trying to blot out the ghostly tread with that musical clock!
This is another great chapter. I liked the history of the Ghost Walk and also was shocked at the earlier Lady Dedlock’s method of harming the horses to help her cause. She seemed pretty evil in the scene in the stables. And her curse , well I’m waiting to see what happens. Didn’t Mrs Rouncewell(sp) indicate that she had heard the footsteps at some point in her 50 years there. I would love to know the details.When I see the word “guppy,” I envision a tiny fish trying hard to puff in some air at the top of the tank. Not a handsome specimen at all.
I feel sad for Mrs Rouncewell having essentially lost both sons, one apparently to war and the other to her landlord’s sense of propriety. Thankfully her grandson visits, though she doesn’t seem to understand his interests in life either. She is too loyal to Dedlock to question those beliefs.
message 569:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 05, 2022 10:22AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
I think you have hit on the point of this with "there is not much fancy otherwise stirring" in Chesney Wold". It is to provide an extreme contrast.
i.e even the animals see things as they really are, whereas the Dedlocks are blinkered to anything except the family traditions and ancient standing.
Sue - Yes, Mrs. Rouncewell, even though she is a servant is part of the old Dedlock world.
Perhaps Mrs. Rouncewell's older, missing son is part of the story; certainly there's a strong implication that he's alive.
Whenever my husband and I travel to a new city, we go on candlelit ghost tours. Not so much for the ghosts (I've yet to see any!), but more to hear the interesting bits of history they have to offer. This chapter reminded me very much of this. I suspect all such old houses have strange tales in their past that trickle down through the ages...I am enjoying all of these disparate threads that seem disconnected, but I know will be masterfully woven together as the story progresses. I feel as though so much has been jam-packed into the story already, its hard to imagine there are 20 more installments to go.
Fiona, my initial thought with Mr. Guppy's claim of being a lawyer was that these events took place at a later time than his meeting with Esther & company, which might explain why she seemed familiar, but he could not recall from where. It would seem rather cheeky of him to use Mr. Tulkinghorn's name as a reference if he was pretending to be something he wasn't. But based on some other comments posted, this guess seems to be wrong. It can be fun to guess though.
Chapter 7Right from the beginning of this chapter, Dickens goes to some lengths to create an atmosphere of mystery and gloom. But he then interjects a note of humor, with his description of Mrs. Rouncewell: if her stays should turn out when she dies to have been a broad old-fashioned family fire grate, nobody who knows her would have cause to be surprised; and his pointed observations concerning Sir Leicester’s perception of both his own infallibility and the nature of his standing in the social order: He supposes all his dependents to be utterly bereft of individual characters, intentions or opinions, and is persuaded that he was born to supersede the necessity of their having any. If he were to make a discovery to the contrary, he would be simply stunned — would never recover himself most likely, except to gasp and die. In this very short passage, Dickens sums up, with devastating wit, the mindset of the English landed gentry of his day.
But the humor is short lived. A gothic pall soon descends, enhanced by the suspicious arrival of Mr. Guppy, a fellow of highly questionable intentions, since he seems to be arriving under false pretenses, misrepresents his professional status and conveniently omits to reveal the identity of the young man accompanying him. His strange preoccupation with a portrait of Lady Leicester, a person he has never met, raises more questions. After he departs, the tale of the Ghost’s Walk introduces further mystery and wraps up a gothic chapter.
This is my first time posting on here and also my first time joining a read, and I am thoroughly enjoying reading everyone's comments. Thank you, Jean, for providing such interesting information for each chapter. I just wanted to mention that the steps of the ghost story really brings to mind those from "A Tale of Two Cities", although there is probably zero connection here. I am looking forward to seeing if the steps from the former Lady Dedlock come up again and again in other chapters or if we will soon find out about the "disgrace" we keep hearing of.
I thought that a lot was packed into this chapter. Very impressive indeed. But this time the atmosphere and the narration were of the right shade of gothic.I have tried to read Gormenghast, by Mervyn Peake. He is held in high esteem by some. His is the only self-portrait in the National Portrait Gallery. He was a fascinating artist and writer.
Mod
That a good comparison Tara. We get the impression that Mrs. Rouncewell has told the tale may times before, and that this old retainer of the family thoroughly enjoys telling it! It is very like the tales told in tours round stately homes in England now.
"my initial thought with Mr. Guppy's claim of being a lawyer was that these events took place at a later time than his meeting with Esther & company"
Not much time has passed at all, except in Esther's section, where she recalled her history. Then we had the time at Chancery overnight at the Jellyby's and now she is at Bleak House. This chapter 7 begins "While Esther sleeps, and while Esther wakes," i.e. it is overnight again.
So by my reckoning it's only the third day since Mr. Guppy saw Esther and the wards of Chancery. But yes, it's fun to guess :)
message 576:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 06, 2022 02:30AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Yes, both you and Greg have picked out this quotation, and it is such a typically wry cheeky one from Charles Dickens! In case anyone is not sure, "stays" are like a boned corset, but worn above the waist. They date from the 18th century, so just as Michael pointed out that the lawyer Mr. Tulkinghorn is old-fashioned in his dress, so is Mrs. Rouncewell. They both belong to the "old school".
The strips of whalebone look a bit like the iron bars of a fire grate, so Charles Dickens is saying that Mrs. Rouncewell really is part and parcel of Chesney Wold, and can't be separated from it.
Greg, (and everyone else who mentioned it the Ghost Walk story), I also found the story so evocative. I loved how we dropped from the general depiction of damp, closed in spaces where the problem is that nothing ever happens and everyone and everything is locked down into a pattern -- to this ghost story, which is so eerie and that refuses to be locked up and controlled with all the other deadlocked Dedlock family household. Also, until Greg mentioned the fact that Lady Dedlock tried to deaden the sound of the footsteps with time in the form of the clock, I hadn't really notice that lovely ironic little detail of the ghost stepping out of and through 'time' literally as well as figuratively.
Mod
I'm delighted to see you posting Lorena :) Yes Charles Dickens liked his ghost stories, and often liked to insert them into a larger work, so there is a sort of connection, as you say.
message 579:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 06, 2022 08:27AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Elisabeth - Our radars should be up whenever we read about a clock, watch or timepiece, as this is one of Charles Dickens's favourite motifs. It often indicates more than simply the passage of time, as you and Greg spotted here :)
There was so much information in this chapter and so much to speculate about (I am a complete newbie to Bleak House so have no preconceived notions).Sir Leicester Dedlock: So many insightful comments have been made regarding him, that I will only add a couple of other thoughts I have had about him:
(1) What kind of man goes away for months on end, locks up his animals in a confined environment (the horses and the dogs), and doesn't make provisions for them to be exercised? Having a tender place in my heart for animals, I found this appalling.
(2) His aversion to the name of Wat Tyler and what he represents (thanks to searching in my accompanying ebook, this even came up in Chapter 2: In Fashion) made me ponder the naming of Mrs. Rouncewell's grandson. Fiona pointed out that he could have been named by his engineer father in honor of Sir James Watt instead of Wat Tyler, the revolutionary. I think either way would have upset Sir Leicester. Because whether Wat or Watt, that name represented progress - a move away from lords and serfs and into a more egalitarian society. That would have been repulsive to Sir Leicester who prided himself on his wealth, if not his accomplishments.
Which brings me to this passage which literally made me laugh out loud: ...the Dedlocks, whose family greatness seems to consist in their never having done anything to distinguish themselves, for seven hundred years.
Regarding both Dedlocks: After seeing the picture of the humongous castle that Chesney Wold was based on (thank you so much for posting this, Jean), I wondered if Lady Dedlock married Sir Leicester for financial reasons, and/or whether Sir Leicester married Lady Dedlock because his wealth was running out (from what I have read, many of the peerage possessed titles and lands, but were often cash strapped), and he believed his wife would receive a considerable sum from the Jarndyce estate.
Regarding Guppy (my favorite Dickens name yet): I thought it was really bold that he would have the temerity of mentioning Mr. Tulkinghorn's name (the Dedlocks' attorney) in order to gain access to Chesney Wold, when the attorney he worked for (Mr. Kenge) represented other litigants in the Jarndyce and Jarndyce case. As others have mentioned, he knew they were not in residence, so to me, it reveals Guppy to have a rather underhanded nature. I think his consternation in seeing Lady Dedlock's portrait is because he has seen it hanging in someone else's home or office, and he's trying to remember who else would have this very intimate portrait (as Sir Leicester would not allow it to be reproduced). Upon gazing at the portrait, he states I'll be shot if it ain't very curious how well I know that picture! So that's Lady Dedlock, is it? What will it mean if he figures it out?
I loved the characters of Mrs. Rouncewell, her grandson Watt and the new maid Rosa. Such normal, likable people! But alarm bells went off in my head when Mrs. Rouncewell states Disgrace never comes to Chesney Wold. How many times have we heard the saying "Never say never!"
message 581:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 06, 2022 08:47AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Sir Leicester only has a vague idea of what Mrs. Rouncewell's son does up north, and when he is told the name of his job (soon!) he has no idea what it is. A tiny spoiler maybe, but indicated here at least peripherally.
As for the animals, I always assume that the grooms would at least walk them round the yard when grooming them, but of course that's not like being taken for a good gallop! Weren't we seeing it all from the animals' point of view, there?
I'm amazed how insightful everyone is about this novel - it's lovely! I try to put in the most obvious bits of foreshadowing in my summaries, and it's great to see what everyone picks up. I'm definitely not going to say which predictions are spot on and which are red herrings though! :D
Bionic Jean wrote: "I'm definitely not going to say which predictions are spot on and which are red herrings though! :D..."Jean, I imagine it must be fun to read the speculations when you know the story. You must get a chuckle out of some of the red herrings.
I'm reading this for the first time and loving the speculations and possibilities. Dickens does such a great job of writing a story where anything could happen. He really keeps his readers guessing.
Mod
Chapter 7 has a very gloomy atmosphere. But it was made a little cheerful by the new characters introduced, especially by the young duo who seemed attracted to one another.Mr. Guppy's sudden appearance at Chesney Wold is no chance visit. I feel it's intentional. He strikes me as a calculating man. I'll be certainly watching out for him! :)
I love the symbolism of the birds. So appropriate for the theme. The woman, too, is caged by her belief that anything will ever happen at the Chancery.
Hello, everyone! I'm very late to the thread here, and I'm not reading the book with you, since I read it last year, but I did want to read your comments. Wow! First of all, Jean, the thoroughness of your summaries and extra background info amazes me. And then all the thoughtful posts about everything from the group. I have to say, I think Mr. Dickens himself would be impressed at how seriously you are all going thru it.I'm loving reading all of this and remembering the book and characters. I remember how I kept telling my husband parts about Mrs. Jellyby as I read, and how taken I was with the old woman with the birds. I think she was my favorite character here. I don't think you've gotten her name yet, but its perfect, as so many of Dickens' character names are.
Anyway, just wanted to say Good Job, and I'll try to keep up a little better from here on.
message 587:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 06, 2022 12:09PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Hi Lois! I'm so glad you called in, and now I'm crossing my fingers that maybe you will be tempted to open the book again, just to read that one particular little bit ... and then ... we still have lots to discover, and you'll probably find there are things you hadn't noticed - and "oh I really enjoyed that bit and I'd like to read it again ..."
We'd love it if you join in!
Well you never know, and any time you feel like commenting please do! You can easily keep track of where we are, as you've seen. Thanks, and I love your thought that Mr. Dickens would be tickled pink by our read :)
You're right that we still don't know the name of the "mad" little old woman - and this is one of the times where those who only ever watch dramatisations really miss out. So often Charles Dickens will refer to someone as "the stranger" or "the fairy" or by a particular gesture they have, such as their moustache going up when they smile (remember him, those who were in our group read of from Little Dorrit?)
Other times, like now, he just holds it back a few chapters for effect :)
Nice thought Curtis that she is "caged by her belief"
And Piyangie too :) Mr. Guppy does seem ambitious.
I'm going through some of my favorite picture books, as I do every year, and one, Mike Mulligan and his Steam Shovel, reminded me of this chapter by its contrast. No one wants to hire the old fashioned steam shovel when the new diseal gas and electric ones come out. I could see Sir Leicester being the one person to NOT want a gas diseal or electric shovel doing any of his work, if he lived in that time period!
I'm so grateful we have a "catch up" day built into our reading. I just now finished reading Chapter 7 and all the wonderful comments.Jean, Thank you for posting Phiz's "working drawing". I just loved that! The thick, dark brushstrokes - so unlike anything I've seen by Phiz before - and so indicative of the gothic, ghostly feeling of Chesney Wold.
I can't add much to everything that has already been mentioned. But, I'll add one of my favorite parts. It comes at the end when Mrs. Rouncewell says "Disgrace never comes to Chesney Wold". Oh, poor Mrs. Rouncewell, I would not be so certain about that!!
message 590:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 06, 2022 03:45PM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Jenny - that's a really good analogy!
Bridget - yes isn't that working drawing fabulously moody? It seemed to evoke chapter 7 so much better than the finished etching, so I'll save that for the header of one of our threads, maybe.
I've replaced the Phiz illustration for chapter 6, everyone, as it didn't seem to have posted properly, and said "image error" so I did it a different way.
Right, that's all from me tonight. Back tomorrow with a new installment, a new chapter - and what do you know - several new characters again :D Charles Dickens is incorrigible!
There is a new character here that I was inclined to ignore: Mrs. Rouncewell. Why should we care about "the old housekeeper at Chesney Wold"? So far the story has so many lively characters that are interesting, but as a first time reader, she seems someone I could bypass quickly. But some of the comments dwelling on her son and grandson made me realize Dickens was forcing us to look at her closely. "The house is there in all weathers, and the house . . . 'is what she [Mrs. Rouncewell} looks at'."
Since this is the dark and dreary family home of the ancestral and noble Dedlocks, what has she seen within those walls? Referring to the house as 'it", Dickens writes that " . . . she can open it on occasion, and be busy and fluttered; but it is shut-up now, and lies . . [on her] iron-bound bosom, in a majestic sleep."
The chapter ends with the ghost story, and we learn that the ghost ".. .. comes back, from time to time; and so sure as there is sickness or death in the family, it will be heard then." This sounds like a foreshadowing to me.
Finally, disgrace is introduced as something that if found in the family, will wake the ghost. Mrs. Rouncewell corrects her grandson Watt, when she declares that "Disgrace never comes to Chesney Wold".
Paul - While I was reading, I didn't see anything suspicious in Guppy showing up unannounced and figured it was a coincidence, but, looking back through, it definitely could be suspicious. It will be fun to find out. I hadn't thought Guppy was going to be a significant character, but it seems like he might be. Thanks Elisabeth, Jean, and Greg for pointing out the clock. That was another piece I didn't pay any attention too. I'm enjoying reading all the little things that people notice.
Sam wrote: "There seems a big clue reveal in this chapter of which I will say no more as not to spoil and since I am often wrong I have question on Mrs. Rouncewell's son who had mechanical inclinations. He i..."
I would suggest that both the mechanic son and Wat Tyler were rebels?? An idea anyhow.
And Mr. Skimpole is a cad. What a loser. That is all. :)
message 595:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 07, 2022 02:37AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
For those who are used to Charles Dickens's writing style, you will know that he is the master of personification. Whether he is describing a house, an armchair or whatever, he will often imbue it with human characteristics. But here he has switched that right round ...
Perhaps the most interesting point about Mrs. Rouncewell is that she not only represents Chesney Wold, but embodies it. Charles Dickens made this clear with the sentence about her stays and the fire grate. We must keep our eyes peeled for more!
Natalie - Yes, Mr. Guppy is important too ... actually there are very few "minor characters" in a novel by Charles Dickens. They all have an important part to play :)
Angela - Ha! Another stroke against the elegant, cultured Mr. Skimpole! (the leech)
message 596:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 07, 2022 03:12AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Chapter 8: Covering a Multitude of Sins
Which introduces Mrs. Pardiggle and the Brickmakers’ families, and we learn the story of “Bleak House”.
Esther is our narrator, to begin the third installment. She gets up before daylight, to start her duties as housekeeper. Esther is keen to learn about every part of the house and garden, and she says everyone is very attentive to her, so evidently all the servants are awake too. Esther acquaints herself thoroughly with her new surroundings, saying:
“what with being generally a methodical, old-maidish sort of foolish little person, I was so busy that I could not believe it was breakfast-time when I heard the bell ring.”
So she attends to the making of tea, which is one of her duties at Bleak House. But as everyone else is still asleep, Esther takes a tour of the garden, which is “quite a delightful place”.
At breakfast, Mr. Skimpole again impresses Esther and everyone else with his child-like qualities, as he talks at length about how wrong it is to consider the “busy bee” as a model of virtue, and about the bee and the drones, and his personal aversion to work and industry.
“He pursued this fancy with the lightest foot over a variety of ground and made us all merry, though again he seemed to have as serious a meaning in what he said as he was capable of having.”
Esther leaves the room to attend to her duties, while Skimpole is still droning on about bees.
The Growlery - Fred Barnard
A little later, Mr. Jarndyce invites Esther to his study, which is a small room; partly a library of books and papers and partly stuffed with boots, shoes and hat-boxes. He has dubbed this room the “growlery”. Mr. Jarndyce says that this is where he goes to growl, when he is in a bad mood, because the wind is blowing from the east. Unable to help herself, Esther kisses Mr. Jarndyce’s hands in a show of gratitude, but Mr. Jarndyce assures her that all that happened was that he had heard of a good little orphan girl without a protector, and decided to be that protector and guardian. Moreover, she has more than justified his good opinion.
After a while, Mr. Jarndyce raises the subject of the suit in Chancery, and tries to explain it to Esther, although he says:
“The lawyers have twisted it into such a state of bedevilment that the original merits of the case have long disappeared from the face of the earth.”
Esther learns that it originated with a will, which was to benefit Mr. Jarndyce’s great-uncle Tom Jarndyce with a great fortune. Because the details of the will were getting tied up in the courts, Tom Jarndyce, the previous owner of Bleak House, had neglected the house to the extent that it was in utter ruins when John Jarndyce took custody of it.
“He gave it its present name and lived here shut up, day and night poring over the wicked heaps of papers in the suit and hoping against hope to disentangle it from its mystification and bring it to a close … the place became dilapidated, the wind whistled through the cracked walls, the rain fell through the broken roof, the weeds choked the passage to the rotting door. When I brought what remained of him home here, the brains seemed to me to have been blown out of the house too, it was so shattered and ruined.”
The house had been called “The Peaks”, but in his despair, Tom Jarndyce had renamed it “Bleak House”. By now any idea of inheritance is essentially meaningless. The longer the suit had gone on, the more costs there were, until the court costs consumed both the fortune and money to be in Trusts; now it is all about costs. It is, Mr. Jarndyce growls:
“such an infernal country-dance of costs and fees and nonsense and corruption as was never dreamed of in the wildest visions of a witch’s Sabbath.”
But now he brightens up, saying that with Esther’s management of it, even the growlery itself will be obsolete in due course. Mr. Jarndyce puts so much faith in Esther’s management of Bleak House’s affairs, including finding Richard Carstone an occupation worthy of his status, that Esther tries to object:
“”I hope, guardian,“ said I, ”that you may not trust too much to my discretion. I hope you may not mistake me. I am afraid it will be a disappointment to you to know that I am not clever, but it really is the truth, and you would soon find it out if I had not the honesty to confess it.”
“I have not by any means a quick understanding.”
Mr. Jarndyce has asked Esther to call him “Guardian”, rather than “Sir”, which makes her feel emotional again, and she is concerned that he may be overestimating her abilities. But she is loath to spoil Mr. Jarndyce’s current cheerful mood, so Esther assures her Guardian that she will do her best not to disappoint him. Mr. Jarndyce makes light of her worries, and teases Esther:
“This was the beginning of my being called Old Woman, and Little Old Woman, and Cobweb, and Mrs. Shipton, and Mother Hubbard, and Dame Durden, and so many names of that sort that my own name soon became quite lost among them.”
Before the conversation ends, Mr. Jarndyce looks hard at Esther, and asks her if she would like to ask him anything, but she says there is nothing. She has complete trust in him.
From now on, with Ada’s help, Esther sees to Mr. Jarndyce’s correspondence, only to feel overwhelmed by the sheer volume of it, and also by the fact that nealry all of it is to do with charity work, asking for Mr. Jarndyce’s donations and support of this or that cause.
One day, when Mr. Jarndyce is absent from Bleak House, a Mrs. Pardiggle pays a visit with her five young sons:
Mrs. Pardiggle "Another Philanthropic Mother" - Fred Barnard
She is similar to Mrs. Jellyby, in that she continually talks of her philanthropic work. However, she distinguishes herself from Mrs. Jellyby, by telling Esther and Ada that unlike Mrs. Jellyby, who keeps her children apart from her philanthropic activities, she makes her children play active roles. She goes on to tell them of all the monetary contributions her children have (rather unwillingly) made to her charitable causes.
Mrs. Pardiggle proceeds to enumerate their monetary contributions to these charitable causes, from: “Egbert, my eldest (twelve) … the boy who sent out his pocket-money, to the amount of five and threepence, to the Tockahoopo Indians” through all five little Pardiggles one by one, right down to: “Alfred, my youngest (five), [who] has voluntarily enrolled himself in the Infant Bonds of Joy, and is pledged never, through life, to use tobacco in any form.”
Esther comments:
“We had never seen such dissatisfied children. It was not merely that they were weazened and shrivelled—though they were certainly that too—but they looked absolutely ferocious with discontent.”
Mrs. Pardiggle continues to expound her views, unnoticing of the furniture she overturns whenever she moves:
“I love hard work; I enjoy hard work. The excitement does me good. I am so accustomed and inured to hard work that I don’t know what fatigue is.”
Presently, Mrs. Pardiggle insists that Ada and Esther join her and her children in making a charity visit to a benighted bricklayer and his family. Esther tries to excuse herself from taking part in this, but Mrs. Pardiggle will not be denied. Subsequently, Mrs. Pardiggle, her children, Ada, and Esther make their way through a mean poverty-stricken area of London. On the way, the little Pardiggles one by one try to squeeze money out of Esther, bullying and pinching her, and generally being surly and unpleasant, so that Esther is quite relieved to arrive.
“I was glad when we came to the brickmaker’s house, though it was one of a cluster of wretched hovels in a brick-field, with pigsties close to the broken windows and miserable little gardens before the doors growing nothing but stagnant pools.”
They all enter and find the bricklayer lying on the floor of a “damp, offensive room” and smoking a pipe:
The Visit to the Brickmaker's by "Phiz" (Hablot Knight Browne)
His wife who is huddled nearby and nursing a gasping baby, averts her face so as to hide her black eye. The room is filthy dirty, with foul smelly water. The man is covered with clay and mud, and looking very dissipated. A powerful young man is fastening a collar on a dog; and a bold girl is doing some kind of washing in very dirty water. Everything looks unwholesome, and they learn that five of the couple’s children had died when they were infants.
The bricklayer is sarcastic, and objects to Mrs. Pardiggle’s visit, but it makes no difference. Mrs. Pardiggle proceeds to read from a book and to deliver a lecture. When she has finished, Mrs. Pardiggle cheerfully tells the bricklayer that she will come again. Meanwhile, Esther and Ada:
“were very uncomfortable. We both felt intrusive and out of place, and we both thought that Mrs. Pardiggle would have got on infinitely better if she had not had such a mechanical way of taking possession of people.”
The Visit to the Brickmaker - Harry Furniss
As soon as Mrs. Pardiggle leaves the place, Esther and Ada go over to the bricklayer’s wife and her baby. To their horror, they realise the baby has died, and the woman is grieving. Esther gently takes the tiny body, lays it on a shelf, and covers it with her own handkerchief. Another woman, ugly and also clearly a battered wife, comes in and rushes to console the bricklayer’s wife:
“I thought it very touching to see these two women, coarse and shabby and beaten, so united; to see what they could be to one another; to see how they felt for one another, how the heart of each to each was softened by the hard trials of their lives.”
Later that night, escorted by Richard who waits a little way off, Esther and Ada return to the sad scene at the hovel, to provide what small comfort they can for the grieving bricklayer’s wife. The woman had stayed with her, and looked after the dead baby, adding a little bunch of sweet herbs and some new scraps of linen to cover the child.
The chapter ends cryptically:
“How little I thought, when I raised my handkerchief to look upon the tiny sleeper underneath and seemed to see a halo shine around the child through Ada’s drooping hair as her pity bent her head—how little I thought in whose unquiet bosom that handkerchief would come to lie after covering the motionless and peaceful breast!”
message 597:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 07, 2022 03:24AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
About William Jennes:
We are hearing a lot about the case of Jarndyce and Jarndyce, and it appears to be based on a real case, which was before the court for ninety years! The first case was filed in 1798 and the last claim failed in 1915. It is the case of William Jennens, and the facts are similar to this case:
“William Jennens (possibly Jennings) (1701–1798), also known as William the Miser, William the Rich, and The Miser of Acton, was a reclusive financier who lived at Acton Place in the village of Acton, Suffolk, England. He was described as the ”richest commoner in England“ when he died unmarried and intestate with a fortune estimated at £2 million, which became the subject of legal wrangles (Jennens v Jennens) in the Court of Chancery for well over a century until the entire estate had been swallowed by lawyers’ fees. This may have been the stimulus for the fictional case of Jarndyce v. Jarndyce in Charles Dickens's serialised novel Bleak House.
“The Gentleman’s Magazine” reported in 1798 that “A will was found in his coat-pocket, sealed, but not signed; [owing to] leaving his spectacles at home when he went to his solicitor for the purpose of duly executing it.””
There’s more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William...
“Charles Dickens attacks an outmoded system deep-rooted in ancient historical practice that impeded rather than helped humanity, that ultimately destroys what it seeks to assist.”
message 598:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 07, 2022 03:27AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
In 1850 forty per cent of the population of London died before the age of five.
“To judge from the Bills of Mortality, nearly 40 per cent of deaths in London between 1700 and 1750, and about a third thereafter, were due to deaths among children under two years old. Of every 1,000 children born in early eighteenth-century London, over 350, perhaps 400, would be dead within two years, and fully half of all London burials throughout the century were of children.”
message 599:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 07, 2022 03:29AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
Mrs. Pardiggle:
Unlike Mrs. Jellyby, Mrs. Pardiggle is not based on anyone in particular. She merely represents the type of women who “agitate, agitate, and work away at a Mission” in a misguided and self-serving way.
The Brickmaker and his family:
Charles Dickens made a speech before the “Metropolitan Sanitary Association”, giving his opinion on these conditions:
“What avails it to send a Missionary to me a miserable man or woman living in a foetid Court where every sense bestowed upon me for my delight becomes a torment, and every minute of my life is new mire added to the heap under which I lie degraded.”
message 600:
by
Bionic Jean, "Dickens Duchess"
(last edited Mar 07, 2022 03:31AM)
(new)
-
rated it 5 stars
Mod
But then such pathos and tragedy to come. I found this part very hard to read. The scenes at the bricklayer’s house are so very affecting. The dreadful Mrs. Pardiggle! I had thought Mrs. Jellyby was bad, but this character is truly abominable :( The one caring person we see, is the ugly woman neighbour of the brickmaker’s wife: a fellow sufferer. And she was surprised to be told how kind she was.
In a way this chapter falls into two parts. The first is Esther settling into her new well-appointed home, and the second is is in the brickmakers’ slum area, with abject poverty, alcohol abuse, physical abuse, and filth. But in each part of the chapter the underlying message is about money.
Money, or the lack of it, determines how individuals live, and we see dramatic contrasts between those who have it, and those who have not. Then we have examples of those who scheme to “do anything with anybody else’s money”, not forgetting Mr. Skimpole who is totally irresponsible, if nothing worse.
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
The Duchess of Malfi (other topics)Bleak House (other topics)
Plotting Women: Gender and Narration in the Eighteenth- and Nineteenth-Century British Novel (other topics)
Bleak House (other topics)
The Pickwick Papers (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
P.D. James (other topics)Charles Dickens (other topics)
John Webster (other topics)
P.L. Travers (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
More...
Yes. He's a clerk not a lawyer, but as Fiona suggested, he is inflating his position, so as to seem more important.
Fiona - "Because Mrs Rouncewell’s son enjoyed inventing machinery - constructing steam-engines out of saucepans - I thought he’d named his son after James Watt, the Scottish inventor whose steam engine underpinned the Industrial Revolution."
I agree - excellent thought, Fiona!
In which case Charles Dickens is being very clever in merging these two, for the purpose of showing Sir Leicester's character. Sir Leicester would have no interest in James Watt, or steam engines, and has an aversion to anything in the North Country (Lancashire) where Mr. Rouncewell's son lives. (Scotland is even more remote to him!) He only has a vague impression of what Mrs. Rouncewell's son does - except that he has done well in industry - although we will discover soon.
In his mind Wat Tyler and James Watt would be equally bad, overthrowing the social order he is convinced is the right, proper and only way. He does refer to Mrs. Rouncewell's son as "Wat Tyler-ish" - but I think that is a little later. I'm just noting it now to show the connection :)
Thank you Fiona - our expert on all things Scottish - that's really useful to know!