Lord of the Flies Readalong #LordOfTheFliesReadalong discussion
Readalong Discussion (no spoiler/spoilers keeping pace with readalong)
Lisa of Troy wrote: "Chapter 2 -Oops....we accidently burned down the forest, and a kid is missing.
Act first, think about consequences later. "
And at every step of the way
Lucia wrote: It's so funny that they mention that they are on an island like the one from "The Coral Island" because I always thought "Lord of the Flies" was a response to that book.
It definitely is, with the character names being the same. Since "Piggy" seems to be Golding's version of the "Peterkin" character, I'm going to start calling him Peter (which is also the name of my plus-sized cat).
According to Wikipedia: Golding described the relationship between the two books by saying that The Coral Island "rotted to compost" in his mind, and in the compost "a new myth put down roots". (Source cited is Kundu, Rama (2006), New Perspectives on British Authors: From William Shakespeare to Graham Greene, Sarup & Sons)
Mark wrote: "***Mark’s Reading Tip***Please be sure you get the original version of the book and not try to save a few pennies with a cheap knockoff like I did. (I got “The Lord of the Fleas” and it was 300 pa..."
That was rather funny! Don’t fret I enjoy lame dad jokes!
so we are calling piggy = peter. I'm down with that!
There is a lot to pack in here already with the first chapter and I am behind and still on chapter one. I have a lot of thoughts and here are some. LOL The thing that stands out the most to me is Piggy. I thought it was odd he is called the fat boy and then reveals the name he doesn't want to be called which then establishes his name. I think it was to show us his vulnerability but since it looks like he is the voice of reason I do question that he would give that up so easily. Maybe he was trying to show some confidence there and trust that Ralph did not return. It speaks to how society judges and responds to others based on their appearance. People are often dismissed based on that like Ralph and Jack do to Piggy. It also makes me think Piggy comes across as weak to the others when in fact he is strong and we see that from his voice of reason and intelligence. It’s also interesting how he is the one getting everyones names, figuring out who is who but he doesn't get a name. I am not sure if Ralph meant to hurt Piggy, but being the leader, he didn’t want to show “weakness” which would have been a strength by showing he felt bad. He did say he was sorry to Piggy though.
Piggy seems to be the one to set Ralph up as the leader. He tells him to call the others and then says Ralph called a meeting. It makes me think about what makes a leader.
Right away the conch is established as something valuable and Ralph had it and along with his appearance and confidence he becomes chief. Then Jack as leader of the choir becomes the hunter and the explorers are established,
Chapter 2, I think, seems to show the continuing divide between the boys that was displayed in chapter 1. Perhaps, as with any society, people mean well and want to do the right thing but don’t always practice what they preach. At the risk of sounding like Rodney Dangerfield, Piggy continues to “get no respect.” His glasses are disrespectfully snatched from his face in order to start a signal fire (the same way we burned holes into leaves with magnifying glasses as kids). The old adage that “we teach people how to treat us” comes to mind when it comes to the gang mentality-like treatment of Piggy (which could be traced back to Ralph revealing his nickname in chapter 1). Piggy, who seems to be the most intelligent, rational, and adult-like in thought is continuously being silenced, even when holding the conch. Is this due to the fact that he is more adult-like than the others, which makes him an outcast when it comes to having fun and being liked? Think back on your own childhood experiences at that age. Weren’t the smart kids who got good grades, the ones who showed pity and mercy (as Piggy did for the missing boy with the mulberry birthmark), the non-athletic, and the more adult-like children often the victims of ridicule?
Mark wrote: "Chapter 2, I think, seems to show the continuing divide between the boys that was displayed in chapter 1. Perhaps, as with any society, people mean well and want to do the right thing but don’t alw..."Yes!!! I think we are seeing this here. Piggy's strength is in the way he approaches things logically but he lacks physical strength. He is seen weak and the dark side of humanity likes to pray on those who are seen weaker than them.
Random thoughts as it was a rough day:The "littluns" don't have much of a voice, or presence, do they? The kid with the birthmark goes poof and the biguns act like they lost a phone charger. Guess someone had a rougher day than me.
From the Go Big or Go Home Department: if you're gonna start a fire to get attention, might as well make it big enough to see from space.
Piggy/Peter probably needs to light himself on fire just to get a cogent point across among the leader boys. Reminds me of Ralph Nader. Poor kid.
Chapter 2, Piggy is the voice of reason that others don't want to pay any heed to. The main problem with him is that despite being possibly the most intelligent or rational one on the island, he shows no confidence. On the other hand, both Ralph and Jack demonstrate plenty of that. For a large part in history, the leaders were the physically strong ones or the most charismatic people, not always the most intelligent ones. Here, I feel the kids left on an island are scared and therefore follow those who inspire more confidence in them, even when it's not based on proper information (as we saw Ralph doing about the snakes). Even the show of carelessness about the missing kid shows a lack of attention towards the weaker. These kids here, stripped of civilization, are going back to more primitive of human natures.
Chapter 3 seems to exhibit the continuation of dissension. Ralph is upset that Simon is the only one who has been helping build shelters, which brings me back to Lisa of Troy’s question of why Simon was chosen to join in on the top of the mountain venture in Chapter 1. Perhaps Ralph saw something in his character that displayed he was good at carrying out duties. (Or perhaps it was intended to show Ralph in a better light). This chapter also mentions how the others are good at talking the talk when it comes to performing tasks, but never walking the walk. I know that any survival book I’ve ever read lists building shelter as the first priority (even prior to obtaining food and water), but Jack is insistent upon acquiring meat and uses this as his excuse to shirk his other duties. Prior to this chapter, I thought Piggy was the most compassionate, but Simon seems to be steadily moving up a few notches on my “mensch meter,” which he displayed when picking fruit for the “littluns,” showing a genuine interest in their well-being.
Lucía ✨ wrote: "Second chapter done and the foreshadowing and metaphors are crazy! I've read in some comments how you don't remember Ralph that way and I totally agree with you. Maybe, later on, we'll get to see ano..."I agree! The foreshadowing in Ch2 is insane, through settings, pathetic fallacy, similies - everything! Also, I remember in GCSE English learning that Golding wrote this book as a response and perversion of Coral Island because he was a teacher and worked with children on a daily basis. He thought Coral Island was way too idyllic and unrealistic so wrote LOTF
Kelly wrote: "Mark wrote: "***Mark’s Reading Tip***Please be sure you get the original version of the book and not try to save a few pennies with a cheap knockoff like I did. (I got “The Lord of the Fleas” and ..."
Whew, good to know. I hope you’re enjoying the read, Kelly. It’s funny how we can remember things differently than we did as a teen. Each chapter almost seems new to me regarding my perception.
Mod
Ralph and Jack have a nice chat about how lazy everyone is except Simon. Ralph complains that Jack and his hunters skip out on building the huts to go hunt. Even though Ralph has been elected leader, he takes no responsibility for the disaster of the huts. Jack is also unwilling to give up on hunting. There was a lot of complaining, but absolutely nothing changed as a result of the complaining.
Thought: is Jack interested in the hunt in order to secure food, or does he just love the hunt?
Christopher wrote: "Thought: is Jack interested in the hunt in order to secure food, or does he just love the hunt?"It seems to me that the author wants to show that Jack is becoming more animalistic (down on all fours, etc.) and bloodthirsty.
Lisa of Troy wrote: "Chapter 3 - The Great Blame GameRalph and Jack have a nice chat about how lazy everyone is except Simon. Ralph complains that Jack and his hunters skip out on building the huts to go hunt. Even t..."
I think we can all relate to this in a way when it comes to our own careers and jobs. I’ve been to meetings that seem more of a waste of time than anything else; people talking about how this and that should occur, but nothing ever gets done. Everyone seems to think that they’re doing the brunt of the work too.
So... several weeks have passed, based on the description of Jack, and he hasn't caught anything?!?!? No wonder Ralph is annoyed. Their bickering reminds me of the sitcom trope of two hetero male roommates that sound like an old married couple. "And I work all day with nothing but Simon and you come back and don't even notice the huts!"
"I was working too--"
"But you like it!" shouted Ralph. "You want to hunt! While I--"
And Peter is barely mentioned in this chapter:
On the end of the platform, Piggy was lying flat, looking down into the brilliant water.
"People don't help much."
He wanted to explain how people were never quite what you thought they were.
Has Peter given up helping because his efforts are never appreciated or is he looking at something in the water or coming up with a plan?
Mark said: Prior to this chapter, I thought Piggy was the most compassionate, but Simon seems to be steadily moving up a few notches on my “mensch meter,” which he displayed when picking fruit for the “littluns,” showing a genuine interest in their well-being.
I definitely agree with you. Simon is proving to be a very decent human. But what's the end bit about? Does he just have a quiet hiding place to escape at the end of the day? Or is he up to something?
Lisa of Troy wrote: "Today is the first day of the Readalong!!!!!! (Probably too many exclamation points but I'm super excited). Chapter 1 - There is a lot to take in. The boys have crashed landed on an island. Appar..."
Yes, I agree, completely, on the idea of children sharing their vulnerabilities more so than adults. They're too innocent to know that they might not be accepted for it, or that they may be perceived as different, so they spill all their secrets and feelings. The responses we get as children shape how we handle/share as adults. It's sad, but I wish we could be less guarded and more free as adults. It's beautiful to see kids confide, but the world is crushing.
Brooke wrote: "Love this readalong and getting to hear (read) everyone’s thoughts and ideas in real time! It’s interesting that even as we don’t like Ralph from the start in his impatience with and treatment of..."
Yes, I thought the same thing while reading everyone's posts. Ralph doesn't immediately out "Piggy" as the kid's name, he uses it instead of Jack's name for him, which was "Fatty." I agree, it's still a form of bullying, but it does seem to be almost a bullying-but-not-as-mean-as-the-other-guy-so-I'm-sorta-good approach, if that makes sense. Making the reader a tiny bit more team Ralph than Jack....
I read this back in high school, circa 2003, and I remember the plot and all the symbolism, and I didn't care much about the book bc I felt at that time it was more of a "boy" book. But I do remember the boys in the class relating to and having more opinions on this book than the girls in the class did. Now that I'm rereading it, I wonder if it's bc boys and girls behave differently. It's just a fact. Most boys/men I know have nicknames (and most seem not so nice) but seem accepted...idk, I'm trying to wrap my brain around how a boy would think vs if this were a group of girls. Asking my husband his thoughts as I complete each chapter bc he read this for the first time last year.
two thought today: one on the same thread as mark wheats and Catherine about Simon being the most compassionate Child of all. I always thought he represented the religious establishment. with that line of thinking one can remember how the Catholic Church kinda took a back seat in WW2. which might represented his special hiding place. that maybe off the wall but either way Simon is the kindest child on the island! second thought is remember in chapter 1 when Jack, Ralph, and Simon were on the scouting mission of the island and a pig charged Jack and he cowered. I always believe he became obsessed with hunting to compensate for that very understandable reaction! Ralph has a similar moment later on and the way he react is also symbolic!
Brindi Michele wrote: "Brooke wrote: "Love this readalong and getting to hear (read) everyone’s thoughts and ideas in real time!
It’s interesting that even as we don’t like Ralph from the start in his impatience with a..."
Great thoughts! Have you and your husband been sharing a lot of the same thoughts on this book so far? I definitely agree with you and Lisa about the idea of children sharing their vulnerabilities and confiding in others. Sometimes I would really like to rewind back to that time in my life, and do always relish in seeing my nieces or nephews experiencing those softer sides of the world that are around at that age....although I still worry how soon those mean aspects will start to creep in as well.
This is a reread for me too, and my first reading was back in high school as well. I am enjoying it quite a bit more this time around.
Somewhat random question, sorry, but does anyone see any symbolism in the repetition of the color pink being mentioned? This just might be a pure coincidence, or me overanalyzing a description of the surroundings lol. It just seemed to come up a lot with the description of the conch shell, the cliffs and mountains, and the piglet. Just something that caught my eye in these first few chapters, so thought I would reach out about it.
Hope everyone is having a great week, thanks for such for a fun group and great read-along :)
It’s interesting that even as we don’t like Ralph from the start in his impatience with a..."
Great thoughts! Have you and your husband been sharing a lot of the same thoughts on this book so far? I definitely agree with you and Lisa about the idea of children sharing their vulnerabilities and confiding in others. Sometimes I would really like to rewind back to that time in my life, and do always relish in seeing my nieces or nephews experiencing those softer sides of the world that are around at that age....although I still worry how soon those mean aspects will start to creep in as well.
This is a reread for me too, and my first reading was back in high school as well. I am enjoying it quite a bit more this time around.
Somewhat random question, sorry, but does anyone see any symbolism in the repetition of the color pink being mentioned? This just might be a pure coincidence, or me overanalyzing a description of the surroundings lol. It just seemed to come up a lot with the description of the conch shell, the cliffs and mountains, and the piglet. Just something that caught my eye in these first few chapters, so thought I would reach out about it.
Hope everyone is having a great week, thanks for such for a fun group and great read-along :)
great question Michelle. pink it's hard to put oneself into the perspective of a 1950 British person. but what I do know which isn't a lot is that British red coats would bleed in the white pants making them pink this was common in humid climate like the Caribbean. where the troops were not well maintained. I know the British stopped wearing red coats in the 20th century but I think Golding knew what happens to red coats in humid climates. anyway probably not the right answer. I have always had a crazy belief that the littuns we're British empire holding that Britain was losing control out in the 50's because the treaties the Americas made them sign. man Franklin Roosevelt really took them to the shed for help we were giving anyway. look it up
Lee wrote: "great question Michelle. pink it's hard to put oneself into the perspective of a 1950 British person. but what I do know which isn't a lot is that British red coats would bleed in the white pants m..."
Thanks, Lee! I really appreciate your insight on that and will definitely look it up :) Thanks again!
Thanks, Lee! I really appreciate your insight on that and will definitely look it up :) Thanks again!
Mark wrote: "Lisa of Troy wrote: "Chapter 3 - The Great Blame GameRalph and Jack have a nice chat about how lazy everyone is except Simon. Ralph complains that Jack and his hunters skip out on building the hu..."
Maybe even more poignant in a virtual world where meetings are even more pervasive (for those of us lucky enough to work from home). Days are subsumed by meetings and more meetings with little time left over for actual work. Shows the timelessness of some books in how relatable this is today.
Some discombobulated first impressions after chapter 3: Wow, the symbolism is so strong in this novel, I completely understand why it's studied in schools! I think its interesting that Golding chose to make the oldest twelve years old. 12 being a kind of turbulent time anyways- an age of major cognative milestones where boys would begin to question authority and form more of their own opinions
I wonder how this impacts their coping mechanisms, Simon seems to be chilling the best out of everyone. Jack's single minded focus on hunting is almost regressive. I'm not sure yet if he's trying to distract himself and make up for not killing the first pig or if he really relishes the thought of killing.
Sarah wrote: "Headstand count: 4"😂🤣
Chapter Four is titled "Huts on the Beach," but the huts don't make much of an appearance. Instead, it illustrates the many ways violence is starting to surface: from littluns throwing sand at each other and Roger throwing stones near (but not quite hitting) a littlun, to Jack and his gang finally killing a pig and Jack punching Peter in the stomach.The fire going out and ruining that chance of rescue is just the crap icing on the violence cake.
Jack made me very nervous with the knife in his hand as he's arguing with Ralph and Peter (although I have enough shadowy memories of the book to know he doesn't go that far yet). Maybe the boys have sufficient faith that the rules of civilization will hold, because they don't seem to recognize the potential danger. I think 21st century* boys would be more afraid of Jack.
And again, Simon is the decent human: finding Peter's glasses and giving Peter his meat. Simon is also the only one who seems to sense the dangerous territory they're entering:
Simon looked now, from Ralph to Jack, as he had looked from Ralph to the horizon, and what he saw seemed to make him afraid.
And as he picks up Peter's glasses (not 100% clear on what Golding is trying to convey here):
Passion beat about Simon on the mountaintop with awful wings.
Whose passion? Simon's or the other boys? And is he using passion as a synonym for heightened emotion in general or violence in particular? Thoughts?
*I held myself back from inserting "digital" into the phrase, but typing that made me think of the Bad Religion song.
Mod
I got the audiobook to go along with the text. It is horrible! It is Golding reading the book, and he sounded extremely bored.
We are getting new names of characters left and right (too many in my view). Ralph spots a ship, but Jack has removed all of his people off of the fire to go hunting. The fire has gone out. Jack insists that they "need meat." As a pescatarian, I find this statement laughable. In fact, none of the little children are helping with the hunt; they are happy eating fruit and enjoying the island.
Ralph is not happy with Jack, and he is calling a meeting even though it is very late at night. Do you think anything will change? Will anyone even listen to Ralph? What do you think of Jack singling out Peter (Piggy) to not have any meat? What do you think of one person, Jack, changing the priorities of the entire group?
@LisaofTroy There's an audiobook on YouTube read by Stephen Fry, it's much better!
One of the most telltale lines in Chapter 4, I believe, is after Ralph verbally blasts Jack and they start rebuilding the fire; Golding writes, “By the time the pile was built, they were on different sides of a high barrier.” The divide between Ralph and Jack has never been more prevalent, and the gang mentality that occurs when Jack mimics Piggy after breaking one of the lenses of his specs, and others mimic him as well, amplifies the politics that are taking shape. The different colored clays also seem to suggest the change in Jack’s outer and inner being, wearing the colors like a mask he can hide behind, mirroring his gradual change of behavior (and perhaps to ease his conscious when it comes to his inhumanity). Jack’s overall behavior seems to have a negative impact on the big’uns who begin tormenting the littl’uns by knocking down their sand castles and throwing rocks. To address Lisa’s questions, I think the ad hoc meeting will be even less productive than before. At least before they would talk about working together. No doubt there’s been bad blood between Jack and Piggy from the beginning, but singling out Piggy to be the non-recipient of the feast even further intensifies this dislike. Jack was proud of his kill and being the founder of the feast, not unlike an adult deriving pleasure when providing for his family, but excluding a member shows how immature and childlike he is (while Simon moves ever further up my mensch meter). I feel Jack’s changing of priorities seems to convey a shift away from the democracy they initially intended, in favor of a dictatorship, and we know what eventually happens when this occurs—people are left out, persecuted, and end up blindly following.
Lisa of Troy wrote: "Chapter 4 -I got the audiobook to go along with the text. It is horrible! It is Golding reading the book, and he sounded extremely bored.
Lol… which goes to show that a good writer doesn’t necessarily mean they’re a good orator.
Chapter 3I found it interesting that neither Jack or Ralph were listening to each other and only focused on their own conflicts. One of the things I love about books is seeing the world as it was, how it's changed and how it could be. I think this is a good example of how we communicate and that hasn't change. More talking than listening or seeing things from others perceptive.
Ralph then come to the realization that "people were never quite what you thought they were."
wow things are breaking apart fast. boat passes, fire goes out, and the first successful pig hunt. the audiobook read by holding is awful.
the quote that Catherine posted passion beat about simon on the mountain top with awful wings. that has to be regilious ideology or at least sounds like it to me.
that passage mark wheats highlighted is spoton profound. "by the time the pile was built, they were on different sides of a high barrier" nice work mark!
Lee wrote: "that passage mark wheats highlighted is spoton profound. "by the time the pile was built, they were on different sides of a high barrier" nice work mark!":::receiving the conch::: Thanks, Lee. You’re right—things are breaking apart fast: the dissension, the drama, the inhumanity…isn’t it wonderful? lol. (I’m seeing so much more now than I ever did freshman year of high school).
Ok, I'll admit this might be a tad pedestrian of me to mention ..
but .. after several weeks on the island with little food, why hasn't Piggy lost any weight? 🤷♀️
but .. after several weeks on the island with little food, why hasn't Piggy lost any weight? 🤷♀️
I haven’t started. But, interesting moments here. We have had some family illness and my reading time is reduced. Still glad to be in the group with you all.
Simon and Jack are opposites - good vs evil, kindness vs cruelty. As mentioned earlier, the symbolism of the groups being on opposite sides of the fire does not bode well for these boys.
I gave up on the book. My brain doesn’t work in abstract ways. I couldn’t get into it. Or grasp what is going on.
I am listening to an audiobook narrated by Martin Jarvis. It's not the best narration, but it works. Badly narrated audiobook can really ruin the experience for a book.Roger was throwing stones near the littlun and not at him mostly because of the boundary set by civilization and him still following it, I wonder how soon these biguns are going to realize that 'civilization' is not really there to hold them back, and what would happen when they do.
When Ralph charged Jack about letting the fire go out and missing the ship, his frustration was thoroughly understandable. But Jack didn't seem much bothered about the lost chance of rescue. Of course, he was high on the successful hunt, and doesn't seem likely to take the blame for anything. But I would have expected him to be a little more concerned.
To me, Chapter 5 is the most philosophical up to this point. I love when Golding writes, “He [Ralph] found himself understanding the wearisomeness of this life, where every path was an improvisation and a considerable part of one’s waking life was spent watching one’s feet.” (True dat). Piggy states, “Life is scientific, that’s what it is. In a year or two when the war’s over they’ll be travelling to Mars and back.” And of course the overthinking that has the boys’ imaginations running away with them.This chapter also seems to be the first mention of the dormant, inner-beast that resides within us all too, as when Piggy states, “I know there isn’t no beast—not with claws and all that, I mean—but I know there isn’t no fear, either.” Piggy paused. “Unless—”
Ralph moved restlessly. “Unless what?”
“Unless we get frightened of people.” I believe Golding also touches upon this when he writes, “Simon became inarticulate in his effort to express mankind’s essential illness.”
@Michelle, if I may rewind back to your mention regarding the repetition of the color pink, it wasn’t until this chapter that it struck me. The conch shell is losing its pink hue and becoming more and more white, perhaps reflecting the gradual loss of power and control it has when assembling the boys; so much so, Ralph doesn’t even bother blowing it when the boys disperse after the meeting. I also view pink as the most tender of colors (be it the skin of a boy or a piglet), perhaps alluding to a gradual loss of innocence as well. Please don’t get me wrong, if we look at anything too closely we can start to over-analyze, so this is merely my own interpretation (thanks for hearing me out).
KarenK2 wrote: "Ok, I'll admit this might be a tad pedestrian of me to mention .. but .. after several weeks on the island with little food, why hasn't Piggy lost any weight? 🤷♀️"
Lol…the thought crossed my mind too (exercise + dysentery = dramatic weight loss). 🤣
Ushashi wrote: "I am listening to an audiobook narrated by Martin Jarvis. It's not the best narration, but it works. Badly narrated audiobook can really ruin the experience for a book.Roger was throwing stones n..."
Excellent point regarding the boundary set by civilization.
:::Please allow me to interrupt this read along with a word from our sponsor::: (Just substitute “piglet” for “hot dog”).https://youtu.be/1yZeSFJ2g6A
Mod
As Mark accurately predicted, the meeting didn't change anything. It ends with playtime and without anyone agreeing to change their ways. If anything, it made everyone more afraid by talking about a beast. Additionally, the group is losing its sense of order with everyone talking out of turn.
Do you think that Jack will now make a move to overthrow Ralph? Is there more than one way to rule without being the formal leader?
Mark wrote: "To me, Chapter 5 is the most philosophical up to this point. I love when Golding writes, “He [Ralph] found himself understanding the wearisomeness of this life, where every path was an improvisatio..."
Very much agree with you, Mark. Many philosophical elements in this chapter (chapter 5). I love the quotes that you mentioned as well, they were some heavy-hitters. As much as part of me wanted to preserve that "bright childhood" and enthusiasm the characters showed at the beginning, seeing them evolve in their introspection and observance of bigger themes and events at play is interesting to see as well. "Again he (Ralph) fell into that strange mood of speculation that was so foreign to him. If faces were different when lit from above or below - what was a face? What was anything?"
Thanks for your interpretation on the color of pink being referenced as well, really enjoy those and appreciate the insight. I've been trying to keep my out for it as I continue this read, but also trying to not over-analyze things that might just be part of the descriptive exposition from the author. Always an interesting balance! I am also reading Moby Dick right now, so my mind seems to be on the great hunt for repeating terms and symbolism....maybe too much?! Also, thanks for the YouTube video, pretty sure the hot dog/piglet song is going to be in my head all day lol.
Great thoughts and questions from Lisa. With that loss of the sense of order, there continues to be shifting dynamics and "alliances." Ralph seems to be a bit aware of this, though he may not completely see all of it. There was a quote back from chapter 4 that I think hinted at this a bit too, "Not even Ralph knew how a link between him and Jack had been snapped and fastened elsewhere." I also thought it was interesting to see how at the end of chapter 5 Ralph refers to himself, Simon, and Piggy as "three blind mice." Now time for me to grab more coffee and think a bit on the formal leader question!
Happy Saturday, everyone :)
Very much agree with you, Mark. Many philosophical elements in this chapter (chapter 5). I love the quotes that you mentioned as well, they were some heavy-hitters. As much as part of me wanted to preserve that "bright childhood" and enthusiasm the characters showed at the beginning, seeing them evolve in their introspection and observance of bigger themes and events at play is interesting to see as well. "Again he (Ralph) fell into that strange mood of speculation that was so foreign to him. If faces were different when lit from above or below - what was a face? What was anything?"
Thanks for your interpretation on the color of pink being referenced as well, really enjoy those and appreciate the insight. I've been trying to keep my out for it as I continue this read, but also trying to not over-analyze things that might just be part of the descriptive exposition from the author. Always an interesting balance! I am also reading Moby Dick right now, so my mind seems to be on the great hunt for repeating terms and symbolism....maybe too much?! Also, thanks for the YouTube video, pretty sure the hot dog/piglet song is going to be in my head all day lol.
Great thoughts and questions from Lisa. With that loss of the sense of order, there continues to be shifting dynamics and "alliances." Ralph seems to be a bit aware of this, though he may not completely see all of it. There was a quote back from chapter 4 that I think hinted at this a bit too, "Not even Ralph knew how a link between him and Jack had been snapped and fastened elsewhere." I also thought it was interesting to see how at the end of chapter 5 Ralph refers to himself, Simon, and Piggy as "three blind mice." Now time for me to grab more coffee and think a bit on the formal leader question!
Happy Saturday, everyone :)
Lisa of Troy wrote: "Chapter 5 -As Mark accurately predicted, the meeting didn't change anything. It ends with playtime and without anyone agreeing to change their ways. If anything, it made everyone more afraid by t..."
Lisa of Troy, you mentioned me! I feel like a schoolboy whom the cool teacher singled out in class. Truth be told everyone, I was going to beg Lisa to please review my first novella, but her reviews are so brutally honest that I was scared she wouldn’t like it.
“I just don’t think I could take that kind of rejection.” -George McFly
Michelle wrote: "Mark wrote: "To me, Chapter 5 is the most philosophical up to this point. I love when Golding writes, “He [Ralph] found himself understanding the wearisomeness of this life, where every path was an..."Wow, I was mentioned twice in one day (I’m flattered). Great insight, Michelle, and I wholeheartedly concur with your analyses! I can’t remember who it was (maybe Woody Allen) but they quipped something like, “I didn’t care much for the book, but the analysis was great.”
It’s interesting that even as we don’t like Ralph from the start in his impatience with a..."
not sure if it means anything because they were published at around the same time, but lord of the flies was published in 1954 and coral island in 1957. they could have been in other forms of media!