What are we reading? 19th January 2022

[Lljones]

Oggie wrote: "What this forum really needs is a moderator!..."

Here I am, the moderator who has yet to moderate.

I'd like to open this discussion up to the entire group. I am as distressed as anyone when posts turn personal and confrontational, but have so far chosen to not intervene. What say all of you: do you see instances where moderation would be preferred?

[Lljones]

Oggie wrote: "What this forum really needs is a moderator!..."

Here I am, the moderator who has yet to moderate.

I'd like to open this discussion up to the entire group. I am as distressed as anyone when posts turn personal and confrontational, but have so far chosen to not intervene. What say all of you: do you see instances where moderation would be preferred?

Seems like a good time to discuss this, as we prepare

[scarletnoir]

Lass wrote: "@scarlet. Louise Erdrich’s main focus is the modern lives and challenges of Native Americans (if that is now the correct designation) in the present day so I wouldn’t describe her like Tyler etc, o..."

OK, thanks... any comment on the overall mood? Don't feel like reading anything too gloomy or depressing ATM!

[scarletnoir]

Lljones wrote: "What say all of you: do you see instances where moderation would be preferred?"

A very tricky question... on a good many (moral?) issues, there will be differing views at the margins of what is and is not acceptable. If two individuals disagree, and no compromise or second thoughts appear to be forthcoming, they should be encouraged to 'agree to disagree', I think. Sometimes, there isn't a 'right' answer or POV, though people tend to think that theirs is the one! Beyond a certain point, continuing to insist on having the last word can feel like harassment.

I'm more uneasy when several people pile in against an individual, though. That can feel a bit like bullying.

[Veufveuve]

@Shelfie (and apologies, I haven't bothered learning how to quote from posts on this site). However ...

"Veufveuve (#299) wrote:

I wrote a book about a loving and trusting marriage. Little melodrama, true, but it gave me a lot of pleasure and some, I think, to the few people who read it.

Together with your name here, I find this quite moving."

My book was not about my own marriage. However, it was written in the years following my first wife's death and is undoubtedly coloured by both my experience of marriage and my experience of widowhood.

[Veufveuve]

AB76 wrote: "Cold and grey in the Shires and the following reading is under way:

Southern Steel by Dymphna Cusack(1953)- Wartime Australia, class conflict and the position of women in Newcastle, New South Wale..."

Very much looking forward to hearing about Zora Neale Hurston's travels in the Caribbean.

[CCCubbon]

Lljones wrote: "Oggie wrote: "What this forum really needs is a moderator!..."

Here I am, the moderator who has yet to moderate.

I'd like to open this discussion up to the entire group. I am as distressed as any..."

I believe that mostof us have some experience of distasteful or offensive posts and yes, I didn’t much care for the recent spat but chose to ignore it. I am sure that you or Anne would act to remove certain posts but there are some people, fortunately I don’t think here, who conduct vendettas against others, never overtly but use disparaging remarks not to the person with whom they are angry but veiled in other posts. Those people are much harder to deal with and we will meet them again back on the G.
Certain words give great offence and should not be used here and when that happens I do think that those posts should be removed.
Personally, I have used the block in the past and have a mute in place on the G. when I find someone’s views offensive.
I wasn’t going to say anything but I do believe that knowing our views will help Lisa and Anne.

[[deleted user]]

scarletnoir wrote: "Russell wrote: "Sounds like there are at least three of us here very much of the same uxorious tendency."

'uxorious' - tricky word ..."

I never heard uxorious used except in a loving sense, but you’re right, the dictionary (SOED as well as M-W) does allow submissive as a possibility. Not what I intended!

[AB76]

Lljones wrote: "Oggie wrote: "What this forum really needs is a moderator!..."

Here I am, the moderator who has yet to moderate.

I'd like to open this discussion up to the entire group. I am as distressed as any..."

Both you and Anne have moderated this forum perfectly and i see no call for moderation beyond what is already in place. The issues raised were addressed by a number of us and i think have made things quite clear. I was pleased to see some interventions recently and they were well overdue but as for moderation, i have no complaints at all

[AB76]

Veufveuve wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Cold and grey in the Shires and the following reading is under way:

Southern Steel by Dymphna Cusack(1953)- Wartime Australia, class conflict and the position of women in Newcastle, N..."

i started it after breakfast and its divided into two sections, a shorter one on Jamaica(which i am reading now) and a longer one on Haiti and voodoo. The style is very readable and Hurston is a warm host to the reader, so far she has visited a Maroon village and gone on a wild boar hunt, while observing customs and culture all around her.

She tells the story of a famed university educator in the USA who visited Kingston to give a speech. Jamaican high society saw this man as 100% white, though having blue eyes and western features , he was in fact 50% African-American. Hurston records a few attendees fainted when he introduced himself as "an african american man!". An example of the colour-bar and "passing", which can go both ways.

[[deleted user]]

CCCubbon wrote: "...If you wish to learn more I would recommend KA Stroud’s Engineering Mathematics..."

Thanks. I may be in the foothills for some time before attempting the peaks. “In a miniature rifle range, 25 yards long, it is desired to construct a moving target, to represent a lorry, 20 feet long and 15 fifteen high, half-a-mile away…”

[Shelflife_wasBooklooker]

Regarding moderation - here's what I wrote in TL&S in May 2020:

I do wish posts could just remain. I know it does not work in many other forums, but it might work here.

If someone is unpleasant to others or not to the point, I think other members here would get that - and decide by themselves whether they would continue to read this member's posts.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/boo...

In a forum where we have moderators who took this on, as volunteers, to keep the community afloat, I think it applies even more. I am so very grateful to Lisa and Anne (and Justine, of course).
It is very tricky to decide on what to delete, moderators would have to explain, etc.

There have been posts I found offensive, but they were always countered by (differing) someone(s) here.

I do not want to comment in detail on the other aspects of this discussion, just say that I do not think we will be able to keep people here by deleting posts... So far, I have not been able to think of a way to prevent these very regrettable losses.

[Georg]

Oggie wrote(#322):
And Georg, it may not have been your intention, but it was offensive to repeat YO's racist and sexist lyrics.:



I accept that. It wasn't intended.
I just assumed that 1. YO was no racist, 2. that the n-word has always only been used by racists, 3. that she deliberately used this word as a sort of stand-in.
Words like that have consequences. Often intended ones. They are the prelude to the proverbial sticks and stones. You have to "make" people into sub-humans first, then widespread consent that they could, even should, be treated as such will follow. "Negroe", derived from the Latin "niger", was a descriptive word in the first place. Why the transformation into "n****r"? Maybe because you could bellow the latter, when you stood there, whip in hand, commanding they should kneel down?

The word "Jew"didn't need to be transformed by the Nazis. The connotation had already been written in stone by history.
At the other end of the spectrum there is the pressure cooker. It only took weeks and a 24/24 loop for the radiostation Mille Colline to convince the Hutu that the Tutsi "vermin", aka their former friends and neighbours, must be exterminated.

Sorry for the digression...

But there is not one single derogative word for women. Though "witches" and "whores" would cover a lot of that territory.

Misogyny is a toothless word. It encompasses words. And sticks, stones, knifes, blunt razors, acid, pyres, branding irons...

I have, when it comes to misogyny, only been the "victim" of time, in a way, class, in a way, and words. And a nasty old man with bad breath who pushed me into a corner and tried to kiss me when I was 14. I filed that under "yuck", not "victim" and only remembered it decades later when #metoo came up. Still in the "yuck" file. Plese note: I do not view all of that amounting to being a victim. Rather as a person who has had an easy ride. But I am only speaking for myself. Feelings and coping mechanisms are beyond any kind of judgement.

I have spent about 80% of my life in a country where, until 2015, virtually no PoC have lived. Even now there are not many. We have had a xenophobia galore instead. If you want to call me a racist because I am not keeping up with the ever changing and eveloping general view in the rotw: I honestly don't care.

I sincerely hope I have not offended anybody's views with this post. If I did it was not intentional.

[Lass]

@scarlet. Overall mood? Hm, not depressing, but definitely a realistic look at life as the characters experienced it. So long since I read it. Blurb on the back of Love Medicine.. “The impression is of a river of memory bursting its banks and overflowing upon the page in an irresistible flood.” That’s from Angela Carter. I certainly think it would be worthwhile at some point. Speaking of Angela Carter, you will surely have read her Nights at the Circus? I recall being entranced by it so many years ago.

Oh, have just seen this review on the back of Love Medicine…”Louise Erdrich is the rarest kind of writer, as compassionate as she is sharp-sighted. Love Medicine is a powerful piece of work,” That’s from Anne Tyler. If you’re not up to it at the mo, do try at some point. Hope all’s well.

[MK]

Oggie wrote: "Hushpuppy wrote: "Georg wrote: "Since then numerous people in numerous countries have fought for that right. And I'm prepared to fight tooth and nail before I give it up to reactionary puritans. ."..."

I have learned it is much better not to reply to remarks that are off one way or another (even to offensive) anywhere on the net, but my age may be a factor in this decision. I find it healthy (lower BP) to just pass by that kind of remark which makes my life much easier, and it is not as if I'm going to change minds.

[MK]

AB76 wrote: "MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "MK wrote: "AB76 wrote: "I have cautiously purchasd a contempary political book about the UK, am not keen on reading anything about our PM and his tories, which excludes many..."

I looked it up and found I was in the Stoke area in September 2018 during Heritage Open Days (history geek here). The poppies were at Middleport then - https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/...

Only if you twist my arm will I tell you how I almost got thrown out of the only near-by (walkable) hotel while there.

[Tam]

Lljones wrote: "Oggie wrote: "What this forum really needs is a moderator!..."

Here I am, the moderator who has yet to moderate.

I'd like to open this discussion up to the entire group. I am as distressed as any..."

I think you are doing just fine Lisa. To my mind the spat, if that is what it was, was more down to misunderstandings. People's life experience, and reactions, are very different. It's also fair enough for people to be able to disagree. It helps to see the history of a particular comment, or set of comments, in order to understand where people might be coming from, and possibly why. So all I can say is I appreciate your 'light touch' on moderation and so we can all keep on communicating... and learning... one way or another...

[giveusaclue]

Regarding the discussion on moderation:

VERY recently I impulsively made a post commenting on one of the TLSERs, not present here who had deeply offended me, and then regretted it. I deleted it, but not before a couple of replies had been made. Fortunately, the two people who replied almost immediately realised I had done and kindly deleted their replies. I was extremely grateful for their actions.

The morale to the story in my case was think TWICE post ONCE (or not at all). Opinions on what we are reading/watching etc., are fine but, as others have said, personal disparaging comments never are.

End of sermon.😇

[giveusaclue]

MK wrote: "I was dismayed at what few amenities there were unless you were interested/employed in a museum. Too many shuttered/boarded up shops. (This of course may be disingenuous as we have our Rust Belt.)"

Even before the effects of covid, we have had years of out of town shopping centres and online buying (Amazon anyone). So it is sadly to be expected that there will be high streets as you found them MK. Our convenience has proved the death knell of many a High Street.

[Slawkenbergius]

Lljones wrote: "Oggie wrote: "do you see instances where moderation would be preferred?"

Nope. This is not the Graun. And you and Anne already have enough on your shoulders without the added responsability of moderation. Besides, we're all grown-ups here; from what I've seen until now, comment nastiness doesn't reach the toenail of the more problematic comments on the-real-TLS.

And, personally speaking, I'm completely against deleting posts (except if it's the personal decision of the original poster, in which case the GR interface allows for self-oblivion clicking).

[AB76]

Slawkenbergius wrote: "Lljones wrote: "Oggie wrote: "do you see instances where moderation would be preferred?"

Nope. This is not the Graun. And you and Anne already have enough on your shoulders without the added respo..."

we will witness the full depths of the Graun when we return there, it can be quite a cesspit. when reading Rusbridgers underwhelming book about his life, i did find the comment section bits contentious, as the moderation means a lot of the chat is guided towards "approved" topics and is hardly "free". But kudos to the Guardian for having a comments section in the first place, they just need better mods, who are less censorious

[giveusaclue]

Slawkenbergius wrote: "And, personally speaking, I'm completely against deleting posts (except if it's the personal decision of the original poster, in which case the GR interface allows for self-oblivion clicking).2

Self-oblivion? Sounds a bit drastic, all I wanted was to delete a post!😥

[CCCubbon]

I was surprised to read in the Bill Slider book Cruel is the Grave By Cynthia Harrod-Eagles that until around the mid nineteenth century the colour for a boy was pink and a girl, blue.
Pink for a young boy because red was considered the manly colour and pink a softer shade for the younger child. Blue was associated with Mary and therefore with girls.
Recently the trend seems to be for more gender neutral colours.
There’s a grand painting of a boy and a girl , the boy wearing a pink dress, the girl a blue one which I will post on photos once I track it down again

[Gpfr]

Lljones wrote: "Oggie wrote: "What this forum really needs is a moderator!..."

"Here I am, the moderator who has yet to moderate..."

I agree with those who've said no moderating. You and Justine and now Anne took this on voluntarily and certainly shouldn't have to do any more than you do already. People can read or ignore posts, react to them or not and as Slawkenbergius says "we're all grown-ups here".

[giveusaclue]

I finished reading:



which was ok if rather whimsical. Now I have started:



the epitome (that word again) of a cozy mystery. Set in Derbyshire a murder takes place at Charleton House - braining by coffee machine part. Charleton House is so obviously Chatsworth that it is quite funny - Stables Café, check; 50 metre high fountain, check; duke and duchess, check; vast estate with deer park, check; food festival, check......

[Slawkenbergius]

giveusaclue wrote: "Self-oblivion? Sounds a bit drastic, all I wanted was to delete a post!😥"

Ineluctable modality of the visible -- if you can't see it, it ain't there -- ni vu ni connu -- hearts and thoughts, they fade away --

On second thoughts, self-effacement would have sounded less drastic, but following a week of self-isolating I've lost the taste for nuance :s

[SydneyH]

Lljones wrote: "do you see instances where moderation would be preferred?"

Hi LL, I don't think you should delete posts. Quite a few disputes actually arise from literary discussions, as well as Socio-political comments that are relevant to some extent. I think if someone is out of line, the best policy is to just tell them why you think they are out of line. We all have a responsibility to try and be civil and considerate.

[Paul]

On the subject of moderation: I'd say no, please. You both, Anne and Lisa, do far more than we have the right to request of you. We can generally behave as adults. Sometime adults tell each other to go fuck themselves and the world continues turning.

I have been guilty at more than one time in the past of using the TLS halls as a therapy session. Or a validation of the state of my mental space/workplace/life choice. I'm certain some of the commenters here can remember that and my flouncing and obvious insecurity.
That's not what this place is for. So, coming from a point of lived experience, when the clouds gathered around Alwynne and Sandya, they had my utmost sympathy. My personhood was never threatened or minimized by their beliefs Some of the things said to them were unpalatable at best, but some of the things that they themselves said were equally as unpalatable. That being said, they were PERHAPS expecting something that others could not give them. It's simply not sustainable to make a point in a public forum, and not expect a divergent opinion challenging you. Whether that point is on vaccine safety, the utility of reading white men, colonialism or the minority experience, even with the empathy brought forth by being readers, it's simply not realistic to expect a complete acceptance or a universal approbation.1 I'd like to think everyone can or can try to place themselves in that other person's shoes, but these past 0 years have shown me that for one reason or another, a stunning amount of our fellow human beings have very low levels of in-built empathy reserves. I felt really bad when these situations were fomenting because I could really see someone struggling to define themselves and seeking validation in a forum that wasn't purpose built for that. Personally, I hope those women and their voracious reading are better for not being amongst us and that they have a peace and happiness that they didn't seem to have when they inhabited this comment board.

[Anastasia]

Tam wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "@Shelflife I was just about to recommend Oblomov, but seeing that you've picked The Master and Margarita all I can say is: enjoy that reread, it's even more fun on the second go :..."

A lot of Russians (and Ukrainians, to be honest) lean toward modern and classic European or American literature, so it might be the case that your son's partner reads more non-Russian authors or some of the contemporary Russian authors rather than "the usual suspects" :)

I love Chekhov, but it might be that his humour doesn't translate well as he got mixed reviews from pretty much all of my English-speaking friends. The novel about penguin can be Death and the Penguin by Kurkov, and, if that's the case, I also found it quite underwhelming.


I'd say that Turgenev has a delicate touch, and as you've probably noticed there are quite a few fans around here :) Goncharov is amazing (both The Precipice and Oblomov), and so is Ostrovsky (The Thunderstorm). If you're after something more modern, I'd recommend The Garnet Bracelet, by Kuprin. I've heard Vladimir Sorokin is one of the most interesting modern authors, but his Telluria is still on my reading list.

[Anastasia]

Paul wrote: "On the subject of moderation: I'd say no, please. You both, Anne and Lisa, do far more than we have the right to request of you. We can generally behave as adults. Sometime adults tell each other t..."

Yes to all of this and what SydneyH said. Been there myself

[AB76]

Anastasia wrote: "Tam wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "@Shelflife I was just about to recommend Oblomov, but seeing that you've picked The Master and Margarita all I can say is: enjoy that reread, it's even more fun on the..."

I am hovering around purchasing "The Queue" by Sorokin...I'm a huge Russian lit fan but havent actually read any Russian novels for a bit, my last was Lebedev's "The Year Of The Comet" in 2020

I have a Gorenstein novel on my pile, he was mentioned a lot by Tarkovsky in his diaries...

[[deleted user]]

Moderation - Many good points have been made. @Gpfr (#351) succinctly expresses my own sentiments.

[giveusaclue]

Slawkenbergius wrote: "On second thoughts, self-effacement would have sounded less drastic, but following a week of self-isolating I've lost the taste for nuance"

Sounds much better. 😀 Hope you didn't catch the lurgy.

[Anastasia]

AB76 wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "Tam wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "@Shelflife I was just about to recommend Oblomov, but seeing that you've picked The Master and Margarita all I can say is: enjoy that reread, it's ev..."

"The Queue" looks like it might be a lot of fun. Have you read Laurus by Vodolazkin?

Which Gorenstein have you got?

[AB76]

Anastasia wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "Tam wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "@Shelflife I was just about to recommend Oblomov, but seeing that you've picked The Master and Margarita all I can say is: enjoy that re..."

"Redemption" is the Gorenstein novel , a recently translated version, i love finding novels via reading diaries. Tarkovsky worked with Gorenstein it seems

I am googling Vodolazkin now...havent read it but interested

[Lljones]

I appreciate all the comments about moderation, folks. It seems we have consensus on keeping moderation to a minimum and avoiding deletion (and I concur).

If a thread goes on too long I may step in and ask parties involved to "agree to disagree" and move along (anyone know of a "cool your jets" emoji?). And if anyone is particularly troubled by any situation, you can always contact me directly through GR Messages (mail icon on top right). These messages are private and you need not reveal any private information. We do need to be linked as "Friends" though, so feel free to send me a request if necessary.

By the way, I absolved Anne of moderator responsibilities, as I did Justine. I'd rather have you mad at me than mad at either of those dears.

[AB76]

Anastasia wrote: "AB76 wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "Tam wrote: "Anastasia wrote: "@Shelflife I was just about to recommend Oblomov, but seeing that you've picked The Master and Margarita all I can say is: enjoy that re..."

thinking of you and the Ukrainian people Anastasia with all the Russian sabre rattling....its not good

[CCCubbon]

Re moderation

I agree that little moderation is necessary here although there is some for I have had disappearances that I did not understand.

I do feel that it is a little naive to think that there are no circumstances when a degree of moderation is necessary if only to ask the poster to remove certain words.

The comments have all come from those who post often. It would be beneficial to hear from people who do not and why they do not for this limits the diversity of publications discussed, they do tend to be mostly of limited genres.
Why do we have so many members but so few actual posters? Maybe that’s the question that we should be asking.

[Lljones]

CCCubbon wrote: "Re moderation

I agree that little moderation is necessary here although there is some for I have had disappearances that I did not understand..."

I assure you, CCC, I have never deleted a post, nor did Justine, nor has Anne. It's possible someone used the 'flag' function to have a post removed. That happens at a higher level at GR, not something I have any control over. Here's what GR Community Guidelines says about flagging posts:

If you see content that breaks our rules, flag it or contact us. Don’t take it upon yourself to correct other people’s bad behavior, and don’t encourage bad behavior by acknowledging it. Staff members evaluate each flagged item and take action to educate members about our rules. If a conversation is deteriorating, you can opt to disengage.

Remember also that one does not have to be a member of this group to read (and flag) posts.

When you speak of removing 'certain words', are you speaking of profanity? GR does not censor profanity, and so neither do I. I'm happy to send a reminder to our members that some people do find profanity offensive.

[Oggie]

I just wanted to say that having read everyone's comments I agree with the consensus to keep moderation to a minimum.

[Tam]

Lljones wrote: "I appreciate all the comments about moderation, folks. It seems we have consensus on keeping moderation to a minimum and avoiding deletion (and I concur).

If a thread goes on too long I may step ..."

I don't have any 'jets' suggestions but here is an image, that might apply. One that I am writing about at the moment, which seems, possibly, appropriate. Banksy's 'Elephant in the Room' as a cautionary warning?... I don't know... but it is a suggestion...https://i.postimg.cc/6Qzzv5RZ/banksy-...

[Reen]

I think moderation in a group like this where the moderators are [very much] part of the group would be a tricky proposition. I'd trust both Lisa and Anne (free of moderating duties though she may be) to be entirely "above the law" in these matters and would consider their judgment impeccable but, as others have said, I think moderating is a burden too far and not one that should be thrust upon them. At least on The Guardian, infuriating though it may sometimes be, the moderation is enacted by strangers. Let people who want to have frank exchanges of view do so and let others mind their business or simply utter "FFS" or a Hail Mary and scroll past.

[Lljones]

Reen wrote: "Let people who want to have frank exchanges of view do so and let others mind their business or simply utter "FFS" or a Hail Mary and scroll past..."

Well said, Reen. Thank you.

[Lljones]

Tam wrote: "I don't have any 'jets' suggestions but here is an image, that might apply ..."

😉

[Reen]

Jeez “above the law” is not what I meant! FFS!!

[Berkley]

scarletnoir wrote: " Herzen's Childhood, Youth and Exile..."

I have a copy of Herzen's My Past and Thoughts that I've been planning to read sometime in the near future but turns out it's an abridged version of the Constance Garnett translation, so I'm considering going for this Oxford paperback, along with the sequel, or a complete edition of the Garnett if it's possibe to find at a reasonable price.

*edit*: looks like the Oxford paperbacks are abridged as well so perhaps I kight as well stay with the one I have, unless I decide to look for that complete Garnett.

Reading Saint-Simon has given me the taste for more memoirs, it seems. I'm going to have to exercise some restraint, or this could end up taking a lot of time from other ongoing projects.

[CCCubbon]

Lljones wrote: "CCCubbon wrote: "Re moderation

I agree that little moderation is necessary here although there is some for I have had disappearances that I did not understand..."

I assure you, CCC, I have never ..."

I should have explained . the discussions that we have over on what is loosely called :ancient Archaeology' range from the Stone Age to cosmology and all stops in between. If scientific journals are referred to with their photos, sometimes they disappear, maybe I have broken some copyright - well, that's my only explanation. This flags uo that there is another level of moderation as you say.
I am sorry that I did not explain this last night but it was time for me to go to bed - I am up very early.

CCCubbon wrote: "Re moderation

I agree that little moderation is necessary here although there is some for I have had disappearances that I did not understand.

I do feel that it is a little naive to think that th..."

[Robert]

Shelflife_wasBooklooker wrote: "Started yesterday with The Master and Margarita, not least swayed by Lisa’s (#281): That was one of my favorite Reading Group months! Really looking forward to reading up on these posts. Bulgakov'..."

Delighted to hear about a shared pleasure-- I suppose that I've read The Master and Margarita about seven times. For three years running I read it at Lent. Once I looked for the operatic undertones in the novel-- Bulgakov loved opera-- and imagined a chorus singing of Jerusalem, and Pilate's solo in response...
Years ago, I visited Patriarch's Pond, and found a mural of Bulgakov's characters on a wall by the pond. (It was near the beginning of the Russian Easter, with the sun reflecting from the windows of nearby buildings, warm muggy weather, and a park that looked just as I'd imagined it from the novel.

[scarletnoir]

Lass wrote: "@scarlet. Overall mood? Hm, not depressing, but definitely a realistic look at life as the characters experienced it. So long since I read it. Blurb on the back of Love Medicine.. “The impression i..."

Thanks for that - if Tyler recommends her, then that definitely encourages me. Not read Carter - magic realism really isn't my thing.

As for me... 'awaiting tests'. Mood usually good, though - as usual.

[scarletnoir]

Lljones wrote: "I appreciate all the comments about moderation, folks. It seems we have consensus on keeping moderation to a minimum and avoiding deletion (and I concur).
..."

Result! A good and sensible conclusion.