Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction discussion
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The End of Sparta
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MARCH 2015 (Group Read 1) The End of Sparta by Victor Davis Hanson
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Done, in the end it fell from a 5 to a 4 for me. I still enjoyed it, but I loved how the book started, and it just kind of dropped it a bit half way through. Did finish strong though, so a 4.
I really liked it so very much but didn't think it is a would-be classic. Those I give 5s to.
Jane wrote: "Victor wrote: "I think so far the only character I really like is Melissos, so I at least found one.As for everyone cheering for the Spartans, well [spoilers removed]"
Funny, I found Melissos an..."
I did not cheer for the Spartans, either. To me, they came across as a bunch of arrogant, self-absorbed bullies, intent on taking whatever they wanted and squashing whoever got in their way.
Eileen wrote: "I did not cheer for the Spartans, either. To me, they came across as a bunch of arrogant, self-absorbed bullies, intent on taking whatever they wanted and squashing whoever got in their way. "
Very true, but I found the Demokratos to be whiny (apart from the main characters). I think this was done intentionally by the author to avoid having a good vs evil vibe.
As I look at ice on the Susquehanna River breaking up, I'll always be reminded of the icy Eurotas. :)
Finished the book yesterday. I enjoyed it even though it was somewhat slow in the reading. I think what it lacked was a big battle towards the end, just as the description of Leuktra in the beginning. But historically speaking there was no battle, just a lot of looting and skirmishes, so what can you do :) . I was amazed at how easily Spartans gave up, as it was. I liked some of the characters, like Proxenos, and Melon too, in a way. I think it wasn't that easy to sympathize with the helots/Epaminondas in the second part of the book because they were the invaders, looting and attacking and it's usually easier to sympathise with the wronged party. Also, I was a bit sad at reading about the end of Sparta's glory: without this polis the Hellenes would soon become an easy prey for Macedonians ( a very nice touch there with Melissos (view spoiler))What a pity so much knowledge about Epaminondas was lost. No wonder we don't know his name by heart anymore and probably this is also the reason Hanson didn't choose him to be one of the main protagonists in the narrative.
Whenever I read about Ancient Greece, I'm always struck by how small their world was : it's Boeotia here, with the Thebes as the main city, but 3 days march from there and you are in Attika, then through the isthmos and you're in Arkadia with Argos to the East, then a few days down the road there' s Lakonia... but wait, on the other side of Mount Taygetos it's Messenia already! And then Melon, for example, barely ever traveled from his Mt Helicon as far as Thebes which was a one day trip from his farm! It never ceases to amaze me how these small polis managed to be so varied (as in Athens versus Sparta) and to become so important to Western culture's history.
I'm really happy that I read this book.
I found that book was a real struggle, but I also wonder if I have done it some form of injustice in my review. Basically it was a good story, but I had real problems with the way the characters appeared to speak in paragraphs or multiple paragraphs rather than in sentences. Perhaps that was what the author intended, imitating classical Greek drama, but I felt that the characters were little more than names with a bit of physical description thrown in. I find good dialogue is a key part of establishing characters and relationships, and there was no dialogue in there. I could not empathise with any of them. There is a good story in there, struggling to escape the prose, but at times it remained too close to history and the sub-plots just never developed fully. I rated it with three stars - basically a good story, but I would not wish to read another book by this author.
Jerry wrote: "I found that book was a real struggle, but I also wonder if I have done it some form of injustice in my review. Basically it was a good story, but I had real problems with the way the characters ap..."The author's nonfiction books are excellent. I recommend A War Like No Other: How the Athenians & Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War
Jane wrote: "Jerry wrote: "I found that book was a real struggle, but I also wonder if I have done it some form of injustice in my review. Basically it was a good story, but I had real problems with the way the..."Not that I have read a lot of military histories, but Victor Davis Hanson is my favorite military historian.
I'm still only a few chapters into this book but I plan on catching up this month as I've read most of April's books. Looks like I'll have a lot of conversation to catch up on once I'm a bit farther in.
I found an interview with the author about this book http://www.nationalreview.com/article... and in it he states that he tried to emulate the prose of a Thucydides or Xenophon, especially their speeches. In three cases, I even first wrote out the addresses of my speakers, in the assembly scenes, in Greek and then translated them back into English.
Which may explain why I'm not a fan. He seems to have tried to stay true to the original Greek in a way and I'm not a fan of that. I tend toward picking modern style translations that evoke more of the emotion than literalness.
I'm still only 100 pages in and I'm finding it a complete slog.
Dawn wrote: "Which may explain why I'm not a fan. He seems to have tried to stay true to the original Greek in a way and I'm not a fan of that. I tend toward picking modern style translations that evoke more o..."
I personally found this style fit in with this particular book. TOO contemporary style, words, or expressions [idioms] leave me cold with any historical novel, but others should be more contemporary in feel than this one. I hope you persevere, Dawn.
I was tempted to take it back to the library yesterday but I'm going to keep it for another weekend and see how much farther I get. I've done Part One so I'll see how I like Part Two.
Jane wrote: "Just found this old interview with Hanson on NPR website:http://www.npr.org/2011/10/17/1414274..."
Thank you Jane. Enjoyed the interview. I once heard Hanson speak and got one of his books autographed. Very bright man.
Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction
Books mentioned in this topic
A War Like No Other: How the Athenians & Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War (other topics)Broken April (other topics)
Broken April (other topics)
Broken April (other topics)
The Spartans: The World of the Warrior - Heroes of Ancient Greece, From Utopia to Crisis and Collapse (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Ismail Kadare (other topics)Victor Davis Hanson (other topics)
As for everyone cheering for the Spartans, well [spoilers removed]"
Funny, I found Melissos annoying. I didn't cheer for these Spartans at all; I wish there had been at least one who was sympathetic. I loved the friendship between Ainias and Proxenos, dear friends despite such a gulf in class differences.