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12 Monkeys the Series
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James wrote: "Justin wrote: "This show is becoming more confusing and more of a mess"Yes. I LOVE time travel stories, so I've stuck with this into the second season. But I guess I'm giving up, now.
Really, t..."
Right? lol. I just remember them saying how dangerous they could be and now they treat them as something beneficial and helpful and I'm thinking...uhh did I miss something?
Randy wrote: "I wrote this about 12 Monkeys, on another forum:A time travel story can pretty much only be one of two things:
1 -- A tight story that's over quickly
2 -- A long rambling story where time itself..."
I get that and agree. I just feel putting focus on another reason for the plot is a bit much especially given the fact that we are dealing with time travel and a virus here. The focus should always be the virus.
Justin wrote: "The focus should always be the virus. "I disagree.
This isn't "The Last Ship", in which the central unusual thing is a virus that killed most people. In that show, the virus is always involved, in every storyline.
With "12 Monkeys", the main focus/unusual thing is the time travel. Even the Monkeys are secondary and you could have a show called that, with no reference to monkeys, for seasons.
Time travel should be the focus.
And they should set rules and stick to them, damn it! Ideally, rules that aren't entirely fantasy, since it's all dressed up in science.
And I agree that all this Prime stuff is balls. What they call a paradox is balls.
One of the problems they have is that they want to stick with the cool, post-apocalyptic survivor thing, for the future. And that, of course, means that they have to constantly fail, season after season.It reminds me of a conversation from the Stargate tv series:
DANIEL JACKSON
This was transferred from film of experiments
done on the gate in 1945. You don't find that
the least bit intriguing?
JACK O'NEILL
Oh, yeah. Nothing piques my interest more than
repeated failure.
Something I liked about the British series Primeval is that their trips through time led to changes. Some of the substantial.A time travel show needs to be brave. This show is not.
James wrote: "Justin wrote: "The focus should always be the virus. "I disagree.
This isn't "The Last Ship", in which the central unusual thing is a virus that killed most people. In that show, the virus is al..."
Well yes time travel should be the focus I just meant that time travel aside, the virus should be the focus but then again maybe not considering their need for wanting to make it about more than that.
I'm glad we are in agreement about the prime and paradox stuff lol.
James wrote: "One of the problems they have is that they want to stick with the cool, post-apocalyptic survivor thing, for the future. And that, of course, means that they have to constantly fail, season after s..."
Good reference and it definitely fits here.
I like the idea of the show and I enjoy watching it. It's just it seems to me they're going way of course on certain things that don't need to be or don't serve a purpose.
Dramatic productions, of all ilk, will keep coming back to the time travel motif. Usually it's as bad as anything else... though it hurts a little more, when you're hoping.Sometimes, it's good. Maybe the next one. I hear a couple producers from Stargate are doing a new time travel series for Netflix or someone similar. Maybe that'll be good.
Okay so the latest episode "lullaby" just aired and rather than enjoy it I found all the things that were wrong with it. I kept finding moments that made no sense and ended up asking myself question after question.So Jones sends Cassie back to kill her so that time traveling never happens but they end up repeating the day because Jones was not meant to die or else time travel wouldn't be created...This is considered too much of a change but what about Cassie now being in 2044 traveling with them? she was suppose to have died so that was a huge time changing event and it wasn't repeated...
Also how is it that Jennifer knows they are looping the same day? That makes no sense...
Ironically, Cassie is sent to kill Jones but actually ends up saving her daughter whom they meet at the end...
-how would Cassie have been able to save her if she technically shouldn't be traveling to begin with and actually should have died before 2020?
They couldn't have dropped her off at Jennifer's camp if it didn't exist until later on...
The episode just made no sense and left me with way to many questions including the fact that they supposedly can't alter time but I guess that's out the window.
Justin wrote: "because Jones was not meant to die or else time travel wouldn't be created...This is considered too much of a change..."Which effectively kills the entire premise of the series: prevent the virus from being released and effectively eliminate billions of murders.
Yeah, I stopped watching, two eps back. The story stupids were starting to hurt.
Justin wrote: "I like the idea of the show"Me, too. I absolutely love the movie.
I just wish the concept was taken more seriously, by the producers.
Okay so the 2nd season is about to end and I'm definitely torn about it. God knows I've cringed, been upset and downright confused as to what's been going on all season. The things they've been dangling all season are... does Titan exist? Will finding Titan or going back to 1957 fix everything? And who is The Witness?Here's a better question..what happened to the goddamn virus that was suppose to have started all of this to begin with? The corpse? The very thing this whole show is suppose to be based off of?
I don't get how they haven't even mentioned the virus or the corpse but all this let's go back and use time itself to fix things because the 12 are messing with time. Here's my analysis of all of it:
Titan exists but only because Cole and Cassie somehow did something in 57' to make it happen.
I don't think either thing will fix anything.
I think the Witness is Ramses son who ended up getting transported back to 1070 which would give him plenty of time to become an elder of Earth and grow beyond human capacity.
Finally last but not least I save the best for last...Paradoxes, bad bad bad in season 1 but good good good lets use them to our advantage in season 2. I'm sorry but if your running from a paradox how the hell can you then flip the script(no pun intended?) and then use them constantly through the next season? Gahhh 12 Monkeys.
Justin wrote: "I'm sorry but if your running from a paradox how the hell can you then flip the script(no pun intended?) and then use them constantly through the next season? "Easily. By deciding to write yourself into corners and then simply ignore the corners and keep on.
This show became very good at simply rearranging the shape of the room every time they ended up stuck in a corner.
James wrote: "Justin wrote: "I'm sorry but if your running from a paradox how the hell can you then flip the script(no pun intended?) and then use them constantly through the next season? "Easily. By deciding ..."
Ughh..it's maddening!
Its coming back on soon and despite my cringing and loathing of the premise to this point I'm gonna keep watching. Besides a part of me likes the analysing of stuff I can barely piece together.
Justin wrote: "Its coming back on soon and despite my cringing and loathing of the premise to this point I'm gonna keep watching"I never made it past the first season.
No James you gotta watch, whose gonna explain all the nonsense to me? lol
Justin wrote: "No James you gotta watch, whose gonna explain all the nonsense to me? lol"As long as you keep your awareness that it's nonsense, you won't need my help.
Watching the movie, ahead of the series, is like eating too many treats and spoiling your supper. You'll enjoy it, but the meatloaf won't be very appetizing.
I haven't had meatloaf in years so I'm will to spoil
I just started watching the 3rd season and while it's good to be watching it again because I need to see how this ends, this season isn't bad but it's got its dumb moments.So one thing that's always an issue in time travel is a paradox and this show especially. So the deal is, you can't come in contact with yourself so how do they solve this? Oh, they create a machine that allows you to be around another version of yourself and not get killed or sick...seriously? :/
Turns out there's currently a 4th and final season so I'm watching season 3 so I can try and get caught up.
Finished watching the series and the show was really good overall. The ending was nice and not shitty however..in typical 12 monkeys and time travel fashion I'm confused about certain things that just don't make sense.But it was a good show and better then most shows on these days.
A time travel story can pretty much only be one of two things:
1 -- A tight story that's over quickly
2 -- A long rambling story where time itself just unravels into chaos
The movie was close to #1. The TV series is definitely #2.
For me, Continuum is also #2.
P.S. Puns intended. :)
I think too much TV tends to #2, because the writers are trying to extend the story to get extra seasons out of it. And they weren't prepared to tell a longer story. So things get made up on the fly, that don't make sense, and might even contradict the original premise of the show.