Catholic Thought discussion

12 views
The Mystery of the Magi > Chapters 7 thru 9

Comments Showing 1-10 of 10 (10 new)    post a comment »
dateUp arrow    newest »

message 1: by Manny (last edited Dec 26, 2021 06:56PM) (new)

Manny (virmarl) | 5046 comments Mod
Summary

Chapter 7, “Prophesies or Predictions”

Here Longenecker explores whether the Magi visit to the Christ child are a fulfillment of an Ol Testament prophesy, as many events in Matthew’s Gospel. First Longenecker provides distinguishing criteria between a prophesy—a supernatural glimpse into the future—and a prediction—a logical forecast based on common sense. Longenecker address the prophesy and/or predictions of Balaam (Nu 24:17), the Wisdom tradition, the various chapters of the Book of Isaiah, and from texts from the Dead Sea scrolls. Longenecker concludes that the Nabatean wise men must have been familiar with some of these prophesies.

Chapter 8, “The Herod Connection”

Here Longenecker explores the context of Herod the Great to the Magi story. First Longenecker provides the background as to how the Nabateans evolved from a nomadic culture to a settled civilization, tracing the melting pot of northern Arabian cultures in the sixth century BC. By the first century BC, the Middle East was wrought with rival monarchies and civil wars. The Hasmonean dynasty came to rule Judea as a sort of client king under the Rome. Herod’s family traces roots to several of the northern Arabian cultures, and his mother was a Nabatean princess married to the neighboring ruler of Judea, Herod’s father Antipater. Herod even spent a good deal of time raised at the Nabatean court when Antipater sent his wife and children to his wife’s family when a rival was looking to unseat Antipater. Herod eventually took over as king of Judea through shrewd maneuverings between the Roman and Nabatean rivalry. By the time of Jesus’ birth, the Nabateans were seeking the good graces of Herod and had every reason to send envoys to the King of Judea.


Chapter 9, “The Three Treasures”

Here Longenecker provides the context and significance of the gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh given to the Christ child. First Longenecker de-mythicizes the theological significance of gold for Christ’s kingship, frankincense for Christ’s priesthood, and myrrh for Christ’s sacrificial death. While the three gifts carry such symbolism, it is more likely that they were selected because they were precious commodities found mostly in the Nabatean kingdom. Longenecker also spends some space explaining the use of camels and the significance of homage and worship the Magi gave to the new born king.


message 2: by Manny (new)

Manny (virmarl) | 5046 comments Mod
I think Fr. Longenecker has done a great job in researching all this and drawing very logical conclusions.


message 3: by Casey (new)

Casey (tomcasey) | 131 comments I find the argument compelling. I would be very interested to read some friendly counter-arguments. I wonder why these ideas aren't more commonplace.


message 4: by Manny (new)

Manny (virmarl) | 5046 comments Mod
Casey wrote: "I find the argument compelling. I would be very interested to read some friendly counter-arguments. I wonder why these ideas aren't more commonplace."

I agree Casey. I think what Longenecker proposes is very likely. If you find any counter arguments, please post them here.


message 5: by Casey (new)

Casey (tomcasey) | 131 comments Well I guess the thing is that everyone just sweeps it away so I don't see any counter-arguments. In this interview, Fr. Longnecker himself admits he was surprised to find nobody had written this story prior to him. "Who were the Three Wise Men? A priest’s quest for the truth – Catholic World Report" https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2... Seems like a very basic, obvious, literal interpretation and nobody seems to have looked into it at all. Odd for a story that is so prominent in our imaginations.


message 6: by Manny (new)

Manny (virmarl) | 5046 comments Mod
Yes, it’s strange. It does require quite a bit of knowledge about the ancient world outside the Roman Empire. It’s probably not something a western scholar would delve to deeply. I had never heard of the Nabateans before. I think most took the easy answer and decided the Magi were Persian. The countries and cultures east of the Roman Empire are all a blur to most. Let’s be grateful for Longenecker’s investigation and conclusions.


message 7: by Madeleine (new)

Madeleine Myers | 751 comments I had never heard of the Nabateans before either. Nor about the commercial value of the gifts--I'd always heard the symbolism, though. Seems Longenecker has given a very thoroughly researched explanation, and thankfully it doesn't blast any of our significant traditions about the Wise Men.


message 8: by Kerstin (new)

Kerstin | 1865 comments Mod
What fascinated me is how complex the geo-political situation was at the time.


message 9: by Kerstin (new)

Kerstin | 1865 comments Mod
Manny wrote: "Here Longenecker provides the context and significance of the gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh given to the Christ child. First Longenecker de-mythicizes the theological significance of gold for Christ’s kingship, frankincense for Christ’s priesthood, and myrrh for Christ’s sacrificial death. While the three gifts carry such symbolism, it is more likely that they were selected because they were precious commodities found mostly in the Nabatean kingdom."

It is rather interesting. Though I would say we shouldn't overlook that this is one of these both/and situations. The commercial significance of the gifts became the theological and symbolic gifts once they came in contact with Christ.


message 10: by Manny (new)

Manny (virmarl) | 5046 comments Mod
Kerstin wrote: "It is rather interesting. Though I would say we shouldn't overlook that this is one of these both/and situations. The commercial significance of the gifts became the theological and symbolic gifts once they came in contact with Christ.."

I agree. The same thought came to me as I read it. I suspect Fr. Longenecker would agree too.


back to top