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A Song of Ice and Fire
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A Song of Ice and Fire Read-Along
I passed right over the flaming sword the first time I read the series. Had no idea it showed up this early.
Isn't it interesting how many things we are all noticing as turning up at the very beginning that only became prominent in the story much later. When - Varys was it? - was telling Ned that the plan was to murder Robert during the Melee, and, in the face of Ned's disbelief that anyone would actually get near enough to do the deed, describing how the scene would have unfolded '....with his flaming sword...' - pure chaos and distraction -
I wonder how I missed it the first 2 times through!
Once again, this slower paced reading is creating a very different, wonderfully different, experience.
Anyone else considering re-watching Season 1 of the HBO adaptation when finish GOT?
Tyrion is still my favorite, but I forgotten how much I liked Arya. I think I have affection for these 2 characters because they have some my traits-being sarcastic, and Arya being so determined to be her true self.I got surprised at one point(view spoiler) I had forgotten all about that.
I too still go with Arya. She now has been trained to fight with Neddle. When the big moment comes though, all she can remember is what Jon told her at Winterfell, "Stick them with the pointy end." It was enough.
I haven't had time to properly digest all commentary & add my own yet, but I have also been thinking of rewatching the show's first season after this reread! It has definitely been awhile, and those early seasons are sooo good.
Gosh, I'm so sorry I haven't had a chance to add to the commentary. My dad has been in the ICU the last couple days and everything is really frazzled on my end. I hope I'll have the brain energy to come back to this wonderful discussion soon.
Wow Heather - I hope he recovers quickly. That’s so scary. All love to you
Big hugs Heather! Family first, we will be here-and we are there in spirit to help you through this difficult time
Hope your Dad is doing better; take all the time you need - no hurry here.
Thank you for your kind words. I don't usually like to drag my personal business into online spaces but I felt bad since I'm co-facilitator of this read-along and I don't want to seem negligent. We're taking things day by day and hoping for the best.
So sorry to hear this, Heather! Here's hoping all stabilizes for you and your family soon! THere is no rush here to discuss. We will just move on in our reading and let discussion flow as it will! ThIs is after all a relaxed reading of ASOIAF.
Time to start the Final Section of GOT! Discussion will start 3/25/22. Until then, we can carry on discussing what's already been read. Section 3: Begins with Chapter 51, Sansa IV, starting with "They came for Sansa on the third day," continues to end.
BTW - we can all claim this as fitting the March classics theme if we finish in March. I plan to do so.
Either I or Heather will divide up A Clash of Kings into 3 sections to read before end of month. It's 130 pages or so longer, but I think 3 sections will work just fine. Is that pace ok with everyone? I find it just right to fit around other reading obligations while reading attentively.
The pace was fine this time (although I thought I would finish in February, I slowed down to stay with the group-now I am behind-LoL! Should catch back up this week).
I finished section two a bit early and was quite happy to pick up the story again last night. The pace is good with me also.
I reluctantly stopped at the end of part 1 - and never did get to part 2! So I’m a whole part behind… Ah well. I can now polish the whole thing off happily. I think for Clash of Kings I will just read the book and stay stumm about the forward sections. I remember still enjoying that one.
But it will be great to have reading split into chunks for the mammoth later books that I struggled with. I never could get far into the most recent one. It will be good to get it off the DNF pile.
Great! We will continue on as we have. I know I have a very full life and reading schedule the next couple of months, so the pace is suiting me really well. It is also my 3rd time through - I am reading it to savor, pay attention, and bring the world of the book back into my life. Anyone else who watched the HBO series still finding that most of the main characters are still very much the actors in the film? For me especially, Tyrion (I mean Peter Dinklage absolutely was Tyrion!), Littlefinger, Cersei, and of course Ned. I mean, SEAN BEAN! Other are blurring a bit -- Arya and Jon actually, even Sansa. I'm curious to see if my vision of Cersei shifts from the HBO series. The blurring doesn't mean that the HBO series portrayals were wrong or bad in any way. Just means they are establishing themselves independently.
I am wondering if GRRM made a mistake. This is from the Jon Chapter, page 544 in the Kindle edition. Jon is alone at Castle Black, isolated in bed thinking, “The girls do not even have that much, he thought. Their wolves might have kept them safe, but Lady is dead and Nymeria’s lost, they’re all alone.” I am wondering how he knew this. Was it mentioned anywhere else that he had news other than Ned’s imprisonment, which came in by a crow messenger.
One of the "experts" will have to answer that one Steven-I am puzzled though, too.
Steven wrote: "I am wondering if GRRM made a mistake. This is from the Jon Chapter, page 544 in the Kindle edition. Jon is alone at Castle Black, isolated in bed thinking, “The girls do not even have that much, h..."Wasn't there a mention in last Jon chapter in our 2nd phase reading of '5 new recruits' coming so 'graduations' happen leading to Jon etc. Being sworn. We know that is Yorn bringing the recruits, he who traveled south to plead in court for men and he saw Ned sitting on the iron throne who let him go through the cells. Yorn had started back to the Wall right away.
I mention that because he would have collected all sorts of news and shared it. And the incidents on the Kings Road would have been hot gossip.
Also there were many times someone mentions something they heard or knew that they could only know if a raven arrived or a visitor.
Yes, that does make sense and we could fill in the blanks from there. I guess I just found it odd that there was no explict mention that I could recall. No big deal but just caught my attention this second time through.
Just finished that section on Ned holding court and Yorn-agree this is GRRM allowing us to connect the dots on our own. And yes, I am still that far behind *sigh* Sorry, but The British have diverted my reading over in the other buddy read.
Joanne wrote: "Just finished that section on Ned holding court and Yorn-agree this is GRRM allowing us to connect the dots on our own. And yes, I am still that far behind *sigh* Sorry, but The British have divert..."Well I have left the British and patriots coping with the aftermath of Bunker Hill for weeks now, and you are not far behind me in GRRM. Hopefully after my Feminerdy meeting on Sunday I can dedicate time to my readalongs.
Gotta stay on top of the IRL book club reading! And I have been drowning in work.
Theresa wrote: "Joanne wrote: "Just finished that section on Ned holding court and Yorn-agree this is GRRM allowing us to connect the dots on our own. And yes, I am still that far behind *sigh* Sorry, but The Brit..."What's on tap with Freminerdy this month? You meeting IRL yet?
Sticking to virtual. We are all happy with that. Bookstore we originally met in, where it started, isn't doing live events yet, even if we were ready or even going back there. It is also a lot of travel for some, and we only meet for an hour. Last month one member joined the virtual discussion while driving to Vermont!We are reading A Psalm for the Wild-Built. I need to read it tonight. It is short.
Joanne wrote: "That looks interesting!"Very different. Review when finish some time tomorrow.
There was a passage between Walder Frey and Catelyn that I was wondering if anyone could shed light on as to why this was “disquieting” to Catelyn:“Catelyn frowned, disquieted. I had understood that Lysa’s boy was to be fostered with Lord Tywin at Casterly Rock. No, it was Lord Stannis, Walder Frey said irritably. (page 624 in the Kindle edition)
Very early, in the first section, the Starks were told that Lysa left Kings Landing after Arryn's death because she objected to the King arranging for his son to ward at Casterly Rock. Since then this information has been contradicted several times - I think Littlefinger told Ned he was to go to Stannis, that being first time it was contradicted.Thanks for this reminder. I keep forgetting to go back to see who told whom this lie initially.
@ Steven, is that the conversation that took place at The Vale? Because something similar was said there too, right before the duel. Then whoever was speaking to Catelyn got cut off and was unable to finish his comment when Catelyn questioned it
Thanks Theresa. Not sure why this keeps nagging at me. JoAnne, no, this conversation was when Catelyn was negotiating with Frey for passage of the Northern Army over the Green Fork at the Twins.
Steven wrote: "Thanks Theresa. Not sure why this keeps nagging at me. JoAnne, no, this conversation was when Catelyn was negotiating with Frey for passage of the Northern Army over the Green Fork at the Twins."
Well then, there ya go-She has brought it up several times, and still not gotten a straight answer from anyone
I have just finished reviewing litigation opposition papers and still in a research mindset. So I pulled out my tablet, opened my Nook app and searched my ebook copy of GOT for the references to Robert Aryn being fostered. First mention is in Eddard I - Robert’s mouth gave a bitter twist. “Not well, in truth,” he admitted. “I think losing Jon has driven the woman mad, Ned. She has taken the boy back to the Eyrie. Against my wishes. I had hoped to foster him with Tywin Lannister at Casterly Rock. Jon had no brothers, no other sons. Was I supposed to leave him to be raised by women?” The passage goes on a bit with Ned offering to ward him.
Next up is mention in that fatal conversation between Jaime and Cersai overheard by Bran: she knew anything, she would have gone to Robert before she fled King’s Landing.”
“When he had already agreed to foster that weakling son of hers at Casterly Rock?
I think not. She knew the boy’s life would be hostage to her silence. She may growbolder now that he’s safe atop the Eyrie.”
First mention of fostering with Stannis is when Ned is contemplating results of interviewing the potboy and reviews the kitchen gossip about Aryn's final days: but he was full of oddments of kitchen gossip: the lord had been quarreling with the king, the lord only picked at his food, the lord was sending his boy to be fostered on Dragonstone, the lord had taken a great interest in the breeding of hunting hounds,
Then we have Caetlyn at the Eyrie in the Vale - as JoAnne alluded, Caetlyn having heard from Ned about the fostering with Lannisters: For the first time she understood why the king had tried to take the child away from his mother to foster with the Lannisters … ... “He was planning to send the boy to Dragonstone for fostering, you know … oh, but I’m speaking out of turn.” The apple of his throat bobbed anxiously beneath the loose maester’s chain. “I fear I’ve had too much of Lord Hunter’s excellent wine. The prospect of bloodshed has my nerves all a-fray …"
“You are mistaken, Maester,” Catelyn said. “It was Casterly Rock, not Dragonstone,
and those arrangements were made after the Hand’s death, without my sister’s consent.”
The maester’s head jerked so vigorously at the end of his absurdly long neck that he looked half a puppet himself. “No, begging your forgiveness, my lady, but it was Lord Jon who—”
There is more in a later chapter with Walder Frey that triggered Steven's question and when Caetlyn gets back to Winterfell, but clearly something is fishy about this fostering business.
Thanks Theresa for taking the time to dig up all the references - will have to see if this becomes clearer, or more relevant as we move forward.
Steven wrote: "Thanks Theresa for taking the time to dig up all the references - will have to see if this becomes clearer, or more relevant as we move forward."NP Steven. I had been meaning to do so as it was nagging at me. As a lawyer, noticing inconsistencies in what I am reading is automatic. Of course it is necessary in my profession, helpful with some reading, and very irritating other times.
What is interesting is that King Robert and the Lannisters believed he was to be fostered at Casterly Rock, but the word from those around Jon Aryn was to be with Stannis. Remember that Aryn spent much time with Stannis in those final days as they investigated the true heirs. Timing is important here as well. The Stannis arrangement of course predated Aryn's death. Was it kept secret from all but Aryn and Stannis household? When did Casterly Rock get arranged? One reference clearly says after Aryn's death. That does make sense...a move to control Lysa.
You have got me thinking -- maybe the change was made to foster Robin with Stannis after Jon started to realize the parentage issue surrounding the Lannister heirs. Robin's life would be endangered with the Lannisters, which would explain why Lysa fled so quickly to the Vale.
Question too is how much did Lysa know about the parentage issue. There is much murkiness ...
Steven said: You have got me thinking yeah, I am thinking more the 2nd time around....
Well I’ve now finished part 2 - so at least that’s progress! I’d forgotten how great Syrio Forel is and how well he sets Arya up for what she has to do to survive
KateNZ wrote: "Well I’ve now finished part 2 - so at least that’s progress! I’d forgotten how great Syrio Forel is and how well he sets Arya up for what she has to do to survive"
You and I are at same point! Yes, Syrio gave Arya the tools she needed to survive.
I love Syrio so much! He seems like one of the few truly noble characters in the series... so of course he doesn't live long... :( but he saves Arya in that final scene, without a doubt!
Sounds like we are all in the same place-Syrio is one of the characters I loved first time around, and Heather is right...all the noble folks get whacked too soon.
REMINDER: Discussion starts March 25 of the entirety of Game of Thrones! No more spoilers needed except if referencing events ahead in the series.I think it would be a good wrap up for each if during the discussion you posted what were the highlights as you look back....for those rereading it what struck anew, and those first reading, what strikes you most and is it compelling you forward. Also, where do you expect A Clash of Kings to start?
Personally, I have some reading to do!
ETA May 22, 2022 A Clash of Kings Reading Schedule! A link and reminders will be posted as usual in first comment. We are reading about 250 pages a month, 3 sections, as my copy of the book has about 728 pages not counting appendices. It also has a handy map of Kings Landing just before the appendices start. I'd forgotten that!
Using my book that is equivalent to hardcover pagination:
April Section -page 1 Prologue through Bran III that ends about page 251.
May/June Section - about page 252 - Caetlyn II starts As she slept... through Caetlyn VI that ends about page 497.
July/August Section - about page 498 - Bran VI starts The sound was the faintest... through the end.
Oddly, except for a couple of scenes, I can't at the moment remember which events specifically happen in ACOK. I am looking forward to finding out.
Theresa wrote: "A Clash of Kings Reading Schedule! A link and reminders will be posted as usual in first comment. We are reading about 250 pages a month, 3 sections, as my copy of the book has about..."
Thank you for doing this, Theresa, as things are still pretty crazy on my end...
I am also behind but I am hoping to start reading the final GoT section soon!!
Heather Reads Books wrote: "Theresa wrote: "A Clash of Kings Reading Schedule! A link and reminders will be posted as usual in first comment. We are reading about 250 pages a month, 3 sections, as my copy of th..."
NP, Heather! After all, I think I initially came up with the idea. Only fair I do some of the work! 😘
Besides you took on the division of GOT when I was swamped with work in late December.
I’ve been thinking of you so much, Heather - I really hope your dad is improving and that you’re coping ok
@Theresa - high five for teamwork! I am having a good time with this reread and it has been great to bounce ideas off other readers this time around. @Kate - thank you so much, that means a lot!
As a result of searching a book in the multiple bookshelves and TBR Towers in my livingroom...a book I did not find...I have finally located and consolidated all my ASOIAF books and such into a short TBR Tower all their own. That Tower has:The Lands of Ice and Fire: Maps from King's Landing to Across the Narrow Sea *
A Feast of Ice and Fire: The Official Game of Thrones Companion Cookbook
A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms
The World of Ice & Fire: The Untold History of Westeros and the Game of Thrones
Fire & Blood
*This is the one that started my searching in January. It was last to be found and was actually the one that was readily visible and should have been found first. Of course each of these books was actually found when I wasn't searching for them.
I also found something I was not looking for: the special edition GOT stamps issued by the Royal Mail honoring the HBO series filming. Treasure!
Theresa wrote: "As a result of searching a book in the multiple bookshelves and TBR Towers in my livingroom...a book I did not find...I have finally located and consolidated all my ASOIAF books and such into a sho..."I have all of these books except for the Lands of Ice and Fire and Fire & Blood. A World of Ice and Fire is SO GOOD. I hope after we read the main series we are able to dig into the supplementary books...
Also, I'll probably be late to the final GoT discussion, but I am finally turning back to the book now, and looking forward to it!
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Without Ned and his unsuitability (view spoiler)[ and upcoming death (hide spoiler)], the North would never have entered into the Game of Thrones. The secret of the king having no trueborn children would still have come out - as Stannis at least knew as did others at court besides Lannisters - but both he and Renly were waiting to use it until AFTER Robert died as part of their respective bids for the throne. There would have been a short time of some battle for the throne, but the North entering the fray, and not remaining distracted by the Wall and threat of the Others,
Ned's bumbling around Kings Landing led to the deaths of all his men and the endangerment of his daughters.
I mean, he even forgot that Robert's life was at risk when he goes off on that hunting trip after being told that the plan had been to kill him off at the Melee!
What to do differently? Everything! But definitely get his daughters out of there far earlier when things first got dicey, and not volunteer his men for service away from King's Landing. He need not have done that - I'd also forgotten that flaming Sword and Lord Beric at the Melee and then heading off to execute the Mountain.
I think Ned himself was doomed from the moment he agreed to go to King's Landing, and his failure to see how changed Robert was.
Oh I forgot something in prior response - What possessed Sandor Clegane to tell Sansa the real story about he and Gregor -- one he'd not told anyone else before - was it because he felt some small amount of softness towards her and wanted to shock her out of her fantasies? Once again, GRRM gives us a character - Sandor - that you think of one way but then something else shows up -- a redeeming grace if somewhat cruelly done -- calling Sansa a little bird and telling her a story that makes her feel empathy to him even if that wasn't his goal.