A Song of Ice and Fire Read-Along

[Theresa]

To add to Heather's wonderfully crafted post - and I agree with all -

I've been thinking about the concepts of Summer vs. Winter in Westeros because something struck me: when are the periods of strife and warfare over the Throne of the Seven Kingdoms? Aren't they the periods of winter as reported in the story? And when are the Summers but times of peace and no war over the throne - even if it's an awful King. I may be reading more than GRRM intended into this but how many times did we read that Robert's war to seize the throne lasted 3 years and it's been 10 years since he won it. And didn't we read that the last winter lasted 3 years? And the current summer has lasted 9 years? I meant to go back and look up all these references and chart them... but it's not in my nature to create spreadsheets.

I do think GRRM wants us to have the impression that times of war and the battles over the throne coincide with winters, and times of relative peace are the summers.

Also - Essos does not experience Winter - no one in the Dany sections are talking about Winter is Coming.

Something more from Bran's vision when he flies with the crow before waking from his fall: He sees the darkness coming from the north, the darkness on the edges of all the scenes and surrounding his family, and in King's Landing -- and references it as looking to swallow -- clearly the visual of a deadly winter coming, of forces unrecognized.

As for Old Nan's story of the Last Hero - it also fits Jon I think . But my memory is patchy -- and confused by what was in the HBO series.

I do love how GRRM through the direwolves and their names and personalities foreshadows each of the Stark Children and their future roles in the series.

Essos -- such an exotic and different world from Westoros. But of course we have not yet visited Highgarden or Dorne in Westeros. For now, Essos in the East is so incredily exotic and foreign.

An aside - I'd forgotten that when Jon had Needle made for Arya, he tells her 'I had Mikken make this special. The bravos use swords like tis in Pentos and Myr and the other Free Cities." (view spoiler)[Jon essentially sets her future before her. After all where does Arya go when she finally leaves Westeros behind? (hide spoiler)] Then Ned of course recognizes the workmanship and style of it when he learns of the sword. Who does he find to give Arya lessons? Syrio, who fought for the Braavi and is especially skilled for that particular style of sword. Ah GRRM you are setting things up so nicely! Right under the reader's nose.

As for the Daynes - my brow wrinkled when I saw that name in the reading but could not place it in the bigger flow of story. Intersting .... but I do believe much of that is a red herring but being loyal bannermen of the Starks, are part of the secret-keeping.

There are really a lot of secrets being kept.

BTW - GRRM tells the story of meeting Benioff and Weiss to who had this mad idea that they could adapt ASOIAF as a tv series. Now, GRRM did not believe it could ever be adapted to move or series - too expensive, too complex, no one would touch it - he did have a long television writing background and was writing ASOIAF to please himself only. He tested Benioff and Weiss by asking them who Jon's parents were --- and when they did and explained how they arrived at it, GRRM was persuaded that these 2 guys could pull off the impossible.

Therefore, I do not believe that the HBO series swerved at all from who GRRM has set out as Jon's real lineage.

[Theresa]

Just a reminder that Feb 1 sees start of reading Section 2: Begins with Chapter 27, Eddard VI, starting with "'It's the Hand's tourney that's the cause of all the trouble, my lords'" and ends with Chapter 50, Arya IV, starting with "'High,' Syrio Forel called out, slashing at her head".

Indepth discussion of Section 2 starts February 22. Section 1 discussion and general comments can continue unabated.

If you need reminders or some helpful links, check out first comment of this thread.

[Steven]

Now that we are wrapping up the first section, I just wanted to say thank you all for these wonderful insights and taking the time to share them. At times, I feel as if I am a freshman who mistakenly walked into graduate course. It is great learning and I am having fun – looking forward to Section Two.

[Joanne]

I have found myself thinking 2-3 books a head as I am reading....remembering things I did not think I would remember. I am only 2 1/2 chapters into the new section, so I may stay on track with you all and not finish this month as I planned.

[Theresa]

I keep itching to start but have other books to get out of the way first.

[Steven]

A couple of observations: There was mention of the seven knights of the Kingsguard. I did not realize there were only seven. I have not done the research but wonder if there is one from each of the seven kingdoms. And, also wonder if there is any special meaning behind the numeral seven in the story. Will keep this in mind as I read further.

I had forgotten how Sansa got her nickname “Little Bird” from Sandor Clegane, “You’re like one of those birds from the Summer Isles, aren’t you? A pretty little talking bird, repeating all the pretty little words they taught you to recite.” I knew he called her that but missed the background on my first read.

[Steven]

Thought this was a great quote concerning saying something when we have had too much to drink and regretting it the next day, “They say night’s beauties fade at dawn, and the children of wine are oft disowned in the morning light.”

[Theresa]

Steven - before there was ASOIAF, GRRM wrote 3 novellas about Dunk and Egg, 2 knights of the Seven Kingdoms. Those were collected and reissued after ASOIAF took off, and we fans waited and waited and waited for the next in series, here: A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. I have a copy but have no idea where in the TBR piles it is hiding and have NOT read it. I suspect some answers are there.

I actually thank you for that observation as I never noticed it. I am thinking worth trying to make a list as we encounter members of the Kingsguard and see just what is what. (view spoiler)[ in the future remember how Cersei changes the Kingsguard, making it about loyalty to her regardless of what she orders, and what happens to those we meet here. (hide spoiler)]

[Heather Reads Books]

I have also never read A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, but it's definitely on my TBR for someday! (Along with Fire & Blood and a reread of The World of Ice & Fire...)

[Steven]

I read A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms some time back and the stories it contains are all excellent and of the same high quality of GoT.

[Joanne]

I have not read any of the novellas either. Perhaps when this re-read is done I will do that. I know for sure I will give Fire & Blood another chance, first time around I never made it past chapter 1. With this re-read behind me I am sure it will have more meaning.

@ Steven, the Seven Knights is also something I never noticed, so I also thank you for the observation. These little notes and observations are making this re-read so great!

[Theresa]

Back in the beginning of the book, in a Bran chapter, there is a brief mention of some lore and stories about the Kingsguard, and a listing of names. It was on the right facing page and I marked it because there was a Targaryen listed and I want to check to see how far back in history he went.

I will look that up and report back.

[Heather Reads Books]

Here is a random thing I am curious about. I just started the new section and in the first chapter (view spoiler)[there is a bit where Ned recalls Renly pulling him aside and showing him a portrait of Margaery Tyrell in a locket and asks if she looks like Lyanna. Ned is like "no" and is generally confused by the whole thing.

I am at a loss as to what this might be hinting at aside from Ned's own observation – that Renly might be trying to style himself as a younger Robert. Tho this is interesting considering after Robert dies Renly makes a bid for the crown. Maybe this is foreshadowing of that? There isn't much about Renly's relationship with Margaery in the books and the show made him explicitly in a same-sex relationship with Loras, so maybe coming to a simple foreshadowing after knowing all that is just sorta hitting me weird? (hide spoiler)]

Would be interested to know what you think!

[Theresa]

The passage about the Kingsguard I was remembering is in Bran II:

Bran was going to be a knight himself someday, one of the Kingsguard. Old Nan said they were the finest swords in all the realm. There were only seven of them, and they wore white armor and had no wives or children, but lived only to serve the king. Bran knew all the stories. Their names were like music to him. Serwyn of the Mirror Shield. Ser Ryam Redwyne. Prince Aemon the Dragonknight. The twins Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk, who had died on one another’s swords hundreds of years ago, when brother fought sister in the war the singers called the Dance of the Dragons. The White Bull, Gerold Hightower. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. Barristan the Bold.

Two of the Kingsguard had come north with King Robert. Bran had watched them with fascination, never quite daring to speak to them. Ser Boros was a bald man with a jowly face, and Ser Meryn had droopy eyes and a beard the color of rust. Ser Jaime Lannister looked more like the knights in the stories, and he was of the Kingsguard too, but Robb said he had killed the old mad king and shouldn’t count anymore. The greatest living knight was Ser Barristan Selmy, Barristan the Bold, the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. Father had promised that they would meet Ser Barristan when they reached King’s Landing, and Bran had been marking the days on his wall, eager to depart, to see a world he had only dreamed of and begin a life he could scarcely imagine.

If you think about it, having as Kingsguard a knight from each of the 7 Kingdoms could well be a way to keep the kingdoms loyal and bound to the king as they share in protecting the ruler.

[Steven]

I am still tuned into the number seven and the series. Never thought about the The Faith of Seven before – The Father, the Mother, The Maiden, The Crone, The Warrior, The Smith, The Stanger. Also, there are supposed to be seven books in the series, the last two being “The Winds of Winter” and “A Dream of Spring.”

Hope you all have patience with my seven fixation (ha).

[Steven]

@Heather – sorry no helpful thoughts about Ned, Renly, Lyanna, and Margaery, but will keep it in mind as I read further.

[Heather Reads Books]

Aha, I may have just answered my previous question myself!

(view spoiler)[A couple chapters later Robert and Ned are talking and Robert mentions Renly was talking up Loras Tyrell's sister as being super hot! So I think this means (in addition to other clues) that Renly and Stannis both were working with Jon Arryn to uncover the secret of Robert having no trueborn children. It is mentioned Stannis was going around with Jon Arryn questioning people, and then his flight to Dragonstone and refusal to come back has always struck me as suspicious.

But I never really put together Renly's involvement before. I think all three figured out about Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella being Jaime's kids, and probably wanted to get rid of Cersei. So the vetting of Margaery Tyrell as someone who "looks" like Lyanna was an attempt to get Robert remarried to a Tyrell who might suit his tastes more! Well, shit. This is my third read and I'm just now putting this together...

SUPER interesting considering this as an alliance between Stannis and Renly, since later they both make claims to the throne once Robert is dead. (hide spoiler)]

[Theresa]

Steven - I definitely noted the Seven gods in the books. Seven is a very common number in religions. I once knew why. Now need to see what numerology has to say about it...which underlies all the spiritual, cultural, and religious uses. I have no doubt thst GRRM used 7 deliberately every time it comes up ... politically as well as religious.

[Steven]

Heather, your answer makes sense to me.

[Heather Reads Books]

@ Steven - I love this discussion of the significance of seven. Seven gods, seven books... I believe there's seven-pointed stars to represent the Faith too... hmmm, I'll have to keep an eye out for more imagery.

[Heather Reads Books]

I may have purchased A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms for myself today on a whim.... 👀 Still need Fire & Blood, but then I think I'll have most, if not the full collection.

[Steven]

You will not be disappointed with "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms."

[Theresa]

I'm procrastinating a bit at work and decided to look up the relevance of the #7 in religions. Found this bit in an article from Psycology Today: 2. It has had significance in almost every major religion. In the Old Testament the world was created in six days and God rested on the seventh, creating the basis of the seven-day-week we use to this day. In the New Testament the number seven symbolizes the unity of the four corners of the Earth with the Holy Trinity. The number seven is also featured in the Book of Revelation (seven churches, seven angels, seven seals, seven trumpets, and seven stars). The Koran speaks of seven heavens and Muslim pilgrims walk around the Kaaba in Mecca (Islam’s most sacred site) seven times. In Hinduism there are seven higher worlds and seven underworlds, and in Buddhism the newborn Buddha rises and takes seven steps.

[Steven]

Theresa, that is pretty awesome. I also read that the ancient city of Thebes was famous for its seven gates. Looks as if seven transcends time and cultures.

[Theresa]

Steven wrote: "Theresa, that is pretty awesome. I also read that the ancient city of Thebes was famous for its seven gates. Looks as if seven transcends time and cultures."

The article - which was a collection of bullet point summaries of the importance of the #7 -- I'll find it again and link it if you want -- also talks about how 7 is consider one of the strongest prime numbers, an 'optimum' prime for mathematical reasons I don't quite grasp 😜 (Math was once my strong suit....in high school) . It's of course tied with luck and magic.

[Joanne]

I was thinking on this too-but not so much religious-what about

Seven Wonders of The World?

And the seven levels of the heavens, because it was something that got stuck in my mind while thinking of this:

To each of the seven heavens corresponds one of the seven classical planets known in antiquity. Ancient observers noticed that these heavenly objects (the Moon, Mercury, Venus, the Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn) moved at different paces in the sky both from each other and from the fixed stars beyond them. Unlike comets, which appeared in the sky with no warning, they did move in regular patterns that could be predicted

And further down that black hole on the web, I found this:

nterestingliterature.com/2021/04/symb...

[Theresa]

Here's the article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/bl...

Here's the bit on ancient times: It has been significant since ancient times. It was prominent in many ancient cultures. Most famous of all were the seven wonders of the world which comprised a bucket list for every world traveler — the Great Pyramid of Giza, the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus, the Statue of Zeus at Olympia, the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, the Colossus of Rhodes, and the Lighthouse of Alexandria.

Most of those wonders no longer exist, but I have performed my tourist duties at the Great Pyramid of Giza and the remnants of the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus (there was a stork nest on top of the only standing column).

[Theresa]

I started reading Eddard's chapter in the 2nd part of our reading and realize I want to go back and reread and make more notes on the conversations had already with both Littlefinger and Pycelle. Certain people were absent from King's Landing when Jon Arryn was poisoned and died - rather too conveniently.

I honestly don't remember who arranged for Arryn's poisoning and how - and am really happy to just let it unfold and see if I figure it out!

Anyway, I'm still running behind but never fear, I will be ready to discuss the last few days of the month.

[Joanne]

I will be starting Araya III (page 338 in my paperback). I have not picked it up in a awhile and decided tonight is the night to get back to it.

[Heather Reads Books]

Theresa wrote: "I started reading Eddard's chapter in the 2nd part of our reading and realize I want to go back and reread and make more notes on the conversations had already with both Littlefinger and Pycelle. C..."

I think that's a great idea, Theresa. I am paying extra attention to everyone at court and what they say to Ned, too. There's sooo much subtext with a lot of them, and I'm picking up stuff I missed on both previous reads.

I had also forgotten the resolution of the Jon Arryn murder plot last time I read, but have it in mind now, and boy is it super interesting how different a read I have on certain characters' statements and actions. I won't say more than that for now but things sure are hitting me differently.

Another spoilery comment, but (view spoiler)[it's really clear to me this time around just how many missteps Ned makes to contribute to his downfall. In the past I've been with him every step of the way, but man, this time I'm just counting up all of his mistakes – SO MANY people warn him, including Varys and Renly and Littlefinger... and he never listens to any of them! And the moment where he was like "huh, maybe I shouldn't have sent most of my best men off to hunt Gregor Clegane when the Lannisters just killed the captain of my guard and I know they wish me ill" – yeah Ned, you think?! If it had been me, I would have left King's Landing the day after Jory Cassel was killed, ugghhhh. (hide spoiler)]

I'm nearly done with the allotted chapters for this month, and am looking forward to more discussion whenever everyone is ready. :)

[Joanne]

LoL Heather-read the spoiler, and yeah. ya think?

[Theresa]

I suspect at some point soon something will trigger my memory of who did the poisoning and how. I mean - I read this twice and watched the HBO series. I have a memory for stuff like that - naturally and both trained as a lawyer. It's really funny that I'm not remembering.

[Theresa]

My spoiler on your spoiler (view spoiler)[ I have always thought Ned made serious mistakes contributing to his demise and endangering his family. He should have gotten the children out of King's Landy with Caetlyn or at least right after he talked to Pycelle and was tipped about the book. He shows off his unsophistication and unsuitedness at every turn for court politics and the role he's been thrust into.

But had he, we would not have the book, would we? (hide spoiler)]

One of the great strengths of GRRM's writing is his ability to create full and flawed characters that fire our imaginations.

[Theresa]

Oh one of the bits I read at the beginning of Eddard VII I think it is - the beginning of this part of the reading - where Ned is reading the book and looking up the Lannisters --- loved that the first Lannistery, he who gained the clan Castlerly Rock, was described as a 'trickster' -- and Ned just sails right past that. As did I the first two times I read it. Warning bells anyone?

[Heather Reads Books]

Theresa wrote: "I suspect at some point soon something will trigger my memory of who did the poisoning and how. I mean - I read this twice and watched the HBO series. I have a memory for stuff like that - naturall..."

It's okay, I had forgotten completely as well, despite watching the show and reading all the books. It was a hell of an "oh crap, that's right!!!" moment when it was sprung upon me again, lmao.

[Heather Reads Books]

Also re: that spoiler (view spoiler)[I know, Ned REALLY betrays his naivety constantly. He's far too used to controlling a relatively small part of the kingdom where loyalty via "honor" is highly valued. I think it allowed him to rule rather benevolently and build a lot of mutual trust with his men and subjects. That shit just doesn't fly in a place like King's Landing, and when he tries to employ the same tactics (including showing mercy to Cersei and her kids) he just gets stabbed right in the back.

Oh, Ned... (hide spoiler)]

[Steven]

Ned – (view spoiler)[ It was apparent that Ned’s heart was never really into it – he definitely did not want leave Winterfell where he was master of his realm, respected, and supremely in charge. At Kings Landing, he is out of his element, does want to be there, does not want to do what he was doing, and with his strict code of honor, honesty, and integrity is ill-suited to play the game of thrones. All combine to achieve a fatal result. (hide spoiler)]

[Heather Reads Books]

@ Steven (view spoiler)[Totally! He was really just doing it as a favor to Robert, which I find the most heartbreaking. I really do love their friendship, as it seems genuine, deeply felt and abiding, but... man, some of the hardest sections of this book are when Ned realizes how being king has changed Robert, like all the stuff with assassinating Daenerys... and even more heartbreaking that on his deathbed Robert sees the error of his ways there and asks to let her be spared. Ugh, it gets me. Especially since so many relationships in this series are duplicitous and self-serving, Ned and Robert's friendship is one of the few pure ones, and it gets crushed so early on. (hide spoiler)]

[Theresa]

@ Heather and Steven - (view spoiler)[Ned is the great tragedy, the ultimate tragic death of all the deaths we will see as we move forward. (hide spoiler)]

[Steven]

@ Heather and Theresa - (view spoiler)[ Agree with all. In my list of Ned attributes, I should have included loyalty, maybe loyal to a fault. Robert knew he needed help and could go nowhere else and Ned had no choice but to heed the call. An epic tragedy. (hide spoiler)]

[Theresa]

@Steven and Heather - (view spoiler)[i was thinking this morning that GOT has 2 present book time murders that on surface seem to balance each other and be for the same reason but in fact one is far more influential going forward.

Robert's death was a power play for the throne and though it was the means by which the Lannisters gained the Iron Throne, it was Ned's execution, in reality murder, that triggered so much of what came after ... bringing the powerful Starks and the north into full war.

If Ned had not been murdered, would there have been more than a brief tussle between Lannister and Renly/Stannis? At some point in the future someone, Cersei maybe to Tywin, says if Ned had been spared and sent back north, much would have bwen averted. Of course it was the new youthful king's decision, willfully ignoring his elders and indulging his vicious nature.

In the end the fact that Robert was murdered was far less important than Ned's being murdered. (hide spoiler)]

[Heather Reads Books]

@ Theresa - (view spoiler)[I agree. Although you can argue it's Jon Arryn's death that is the initial destabilizing force, killing Ned guarantees war with the North. I think there's a lot of other players vying for the power center of King's Landing that would have acted regardless, but you absolutely would have avoided the War of the Five Kings. I suspect that's why the Lannisters weren't actually planning to execute Ned – Joffrey does that in defiance of his mother, cementing what a capricious and arbitrarily cruel ruler he is. (hide spoiler)]

[Theresa]

Open discussion starts Tuesday Feb 22 of everything through Part 2. Anything referencing future events goes behind spoilers!

[Heather Reads Books]

Finished with my chapters and ready to go! Should I throw out more discussions questions or do we want it to be a free form discussion?

[Steven]

Finished with this section as well.

[Joanne]

I am a bit behind, will try catching up today, but no worries as this is my second read

[Theresa]

On last 120 pages. Since this is a holiday, I should finish today, easily.


Go ahead, Heather, with a few questions to start us off.

[Theresa]

Just finished this section. Oh was it hard spending 2 days watching Ned make mistake after mistake, ignore warnings, miss clues...just totally leave himself exposed.

Lots of bits I had totally forgotten...like Sansa's outburst finally causing the penny to drop for Ned. And just how MANY clues there were in plain sight!

[Heather Reads Books]

Game of Thrones Part 2: Discussion Kickoff Questions

1. Think of your favorite character(s) from section 1. How has their story progressed? Did anything surprising happen to them? Is there a different character whose arc you find the most compelling this time? If so, why?

2. This second section deals heavily with Ned Stark, his experience as a fish out of water in King's Landing, and his attempts to unravel the mystery surrounding Jon Arryn's death. What significance do you think this focus on Ned this has to the story? (Also, a bit of a bonus question based on previous spoilery discussions: what would you have done differently in Ned's place?)

Of course, other commentary/questions welcome, just tossed these together to give us a jumping off point if we wish. :)

[Theresa]

Since it's all very fresh in my mind as I read it over the last 2 days, and since I'm procrastinating at work, I'll try to respond.

1. Think of your favorite character(s) from section 1. How has their story progressed? Did anything surprising happen to them? Is there a different character whose arc you find the most compelling this time? If so, why?

Obviously Tyrion is my absolute favorite and I didn't find anything surprising - as this isn't my first time through the story - but I had sort of forgotten a few things. Like, oh just Caetlyn seizing him at the crossroads and going to the Vale. And that he met his first battle there in the forests of the Vale fighting tribesmen. Here's where we really start to see Tyrion's strengths and weaknesses - his cleverness and intellect at full swing but also his difficulty reigning in his sharp tongue and wit when diplomacy and perhaps even silence are needed. Tyrion doesn't get angry in the ordinary way - he gets sarcastic and cutting. I'd also forgotten that Bronn shows up and joins with Tyrion this early and also that Tyrion tells so early the story of his introduction to sex, love, marriage, and the utter cruelty of his father.

Arya - another favorite of mine - She's not surprised me at all. I had forgotten just how she managed to get Needle before working to sneak out of the Keep. And how had I forgotten about catching cats????

As for other characters I especially noticed something about this time around:

Varys, Illyrio, and Pycelle - paid much more attention to where they are, with whom, what they say and what they appear to do. I don't think I realized just how early on Pycelle's allegiance to Cersei was evident - it's so obvious in this section even before Ned comments about how he was sure Pycelle was racing back to report to Cersei.

Theon - it is only here - in the chapter where the wildings and deserters attach Bran -- that we start to see his true full nature -- and that Bran has never trusted him though Robb is close to him. I had never before picked up on the fact that Bran never quite trusted Theon.

Littlefinger - both loved and despised as a character and now indelibly intertwined in my mind with the stellar performance given by Aiden Gillen in the series. Was anything surprising? Not given my familiarity. I will say I'd forgotten how often he mentions dining with Lady Tandy --- I now of course wonder if he's really dining with Cersei....or if that's just a total red herring fed to Ned. I've always felt that Littlefinger has no interest personally in sex, that he's basically asexual even though he claims this endless desire and love for Cat. It's easy to maintain a fiction of desire when you know you will never have to actually demonstrate it. Littlefinger is cold and manipulative and sex, from owning brothels, to claiming Lady Tandy wants him to marry one of her daughters and effectively is wooing him with elaborate dinners, is a means to an end only - best wielded without having to engage in the act himself. (view spoiler)[ He wields this very effectively and perhaps most significantly with Lysa by putting on a show of love and desire to lure her to marriage and him to control of the Vale (hide spoiler)]

Now we need to talk about Lysa. This is truly the first time I really paid any real attention to her and her background at this stage of the reading. She's just sort of been there in the background until much later. But in truth, there is so much revealed about her in just these 2 sections that I've overlooked.

First - the number of times it's mentioned that she fancied Petr Baelish when he was a ward at Riverrun. Also its mentioned that she helped nurse him after he lost his armed combat for Cat's hand. She and Cat were married at the same time, and Lysa would have left immediatley with her new husband Jon Aryn for King's Landing where she spent the next 14 years in the midst of court intrigue -- and with Petr Bael fish close at hand for a good part of that time. She had to have been an active participant - if only as a tool of others.

Second - Jealousy of Cat is so evident. As is her vanity.

Third - all the suitors. She keeps claiming that the Aerie is impregnable, cannot be taken, yet she's allowed in all these suitors and their entourages which makes it vulnerable. (view spoiler)[and of course as we find out in the future that's exactly how the Aerie and Vale are taken - from the inside (hide spoiler)]. CF with Penelope in the Odyssey -- GRRM takes the same story but with a vain, unstable woman at the center which of course leads to (view spoiler)[ murder and loss of estate (hide spoiler)].

Fourth - what woman wouldn't become unstable who was:
-married off for political reasons to a man much older (even if that was the norm?)
-sent to a pit of vipers for 14 years a/k/a King's Landing
-had several still births and misscarriages
-whose vanity, etc. were constantly reinforced no doubt by Littlefinger to keep her 'sweet' and a tool.

Sansa - I am seeing her clinging to fairytales, and the refusal to see the truth beneath them and later what is really happening around her and to her, as very much the pampered daughter of Cat that she was raised to be. She's a girly girl that her whole life was pampered and fed fantasies that took her to a pretty world so much nicer and prettier. It's mentioned many places how like Cat she is in appearance and manner. But...she's still a Stark, a wolf girl, with that strength and wildness to evident in Arya. That side was not encouraged or admired in her. And so, when the world dissolves around her, she goes where she feels safe -- into that fantasy world. Sansa has far more maturing to do than Arya. I'm much more sympathetic to Sansa this time through than I have ever been before. To me Sansa is more the child than Arya, and reacts and behaves as a child does.

Robert Arryn and Joffrey -- I was so struck by the similarity of the 2 of them sitting on their thrones screaming for the death.